Pepto and Imodium questions...

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:56 pm

Good point, Tex.

I had pretty fast results from Pepto Bismol. It wasn't as gratifying as flipping an "off" switch, but I noticed a difference within a few days.

Before signing up for "gluten free for life," it might be worth just taking a week or two off gluten (pretend you're traveling in an exotic location, where there is no pizza, pasta or bagels... just rice?). That would tell you whether the pepto is helping. If it's making your symptoms worse, the sooner you figure that out, the faster you'll get one more problem out of your system. There are lots of resources (Paleo / Primal diets, probably some of the Atkins/Low Carb/South Beach variants???)

Marliss, thanks for the sweetness - I might just be less patient than you are. (That's why, as Gabes says, this turns out to be "my way.")

--Sara

Post by **tex** » Tue May 31, 2011 10:55 pm

Andrea wrote:WEll, my D is definetly better, 1-2xs a day verses 6-7, but these new symptoms are since I started the pepto. Does that make any sense?

Yes it does. It could be good news. Here's why:

I was one of the few here who had symptoms that alternated between D and C, and I could always tell when the D part of the cycle was about to come to an end, because the gurgling noises in my gut would always become much more noticeable then. In fact, sometimes my small intestine seemed to almost writhe around like a snake. Once in a while, the cramping spasms would come on so fast and severely, that they would literally bring me to my knees, but they would usually pass after a few minutes. After a couple of noisy days, my symptoms would usually come to an end, and I would feel great for a few days to a week or so, (during which I would have C), until the cycle started over again, with nausea, severe bloating, and sometimes vomiting, followed by at least a few days or more of D. Eventually, like Pavlov's dogs, I learned to look forward to the gurgling noises.

Of course, YMMV, because we're all different here.

Tex

alclarkson · Post by **alclarkson** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:30 pm

Tex that sounds like exactly what I'm going through now. Today was rough though, I think I'm up to 4 or 5 times now, a lot of gas, and OMG I don't know if I should let that out or not kinda thing.? Going GF is going to be soooo hard for me. I think I want to try the probiotic yogurts first. I mean, I wanted to cry this morning when I saw those poppy seed muffins and honey-nut Cheerios I remembered that I was going to try GF. So, I ate them and they were good, and now I'm gas-tastic, but dang it, they were good!

Post by **tex** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:43 pm

If you like honey-nut type cereals, try Honey-Nut Chex cereal - it's gluten-free, as is the Corn Chex and Rice Chex.

Tex

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:55 pm

Heck, if you feel that way - don't give up gluten! But since you currently also don't feel good, you might consider taking a few days off. People with milder symptoms and no 'diagnosis' do that all the time. (Every kid with a stomach bug gets the BRAT diet from time to time.)

Pretty much everyone likes sugary cakey food, btw ;) There's a saying about "...another man's poison." I don't claim to know what your poison is, but you do sound like you're getting your dose. Probiotic yogurt might be the perfect way to make things worse - pretty much no one with gastric symptoms does well with dairy. Singers avoid it, too.

Wild animals, if they eat something that makes them sick - they learn. On the other hand - my dog will eat ANYTHING that's not nailed down - most definitely including things that have made him ill in the past. Many domestic animals are just like that. And really, we modern humans are pretty well domesticated, though we did it to ourselves. Ironically, it was probably growing gluten grains that made that human 'domestication' possible, and permanent. We call it civilization now, and how I enjoy the fruits thereof. But I wish I'd learned from my earlier symptoms, before my current ones caught up with me.

Hope you're already feeling better!

Sara

alclarkson · Post by **alclarkson** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:04 pm

Well, I've backed off the pepto from 3x to 2x a day and I'm actually feeling quite a bit better. I'm taking it in the morning & at night & haven't changed my diet or anything else. I would guess that I'm about 75% less gassy and I've probably only heard my bowels moving around once versus all day long. Does this mean The pepto's no good or that the 13 days I've been on it that it's healed me up some?

Post by **tex** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:14 pm

It could mean that the Pepto is helping, but you're also sensitive to it, and you were taking more than you need for a therapeutic dose.

Tex

alclarkson · Post by **alclarkson** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:25 pm

Oh, good call on the too much for a therapeutic dose. Onward ho!

trialanderror · Post by **trialanderror** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:44 pm

Just joined the site a week or so ago. As I have said on my other posts, probiotics work pretty well for me.

I have started a gluten free diet 4 days ago. Too early to tell if my improvements are real, or just a "placebo" effect. I have a lot of will power, so if I didn't travel for work, going gluten free doesn't seem that hard to me. The problem is I travel all the time, and have lunch and dinner with clients. You know the saying "the customer is always right." Thus generally, if my client wants X, we do X. I am traveling 3 days next week and am very, very anxious.

I am thinking of dropping a box of gluten free cookies on the table at the beginning of the meeting to start the conversation and put everyone on notice that I have special dietary needs and we need to plan a little for lunch. I suspect that will work, but we will see. Seems like people eventually/often get gluted no matter how careful they are when eating out.

This all brings me to the Pepto questions:
* Does anyone know what the dose is? 8 tablets per day for 8 weeks?
* If 80% of people have MC resolve with the Pepto treatment, and most of those don't have relapses, that is pretty good. Do you know if the people that the treatment was successful for were gluten intolerant?
* are all people with MC gluten intolerant?
* If gluten (or some other allergy) is damaging the body, is the successful use of Pepto (i.e., long term remission) just masking the symptoms, while damage continues?

Thanks

Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:26 pm

T&E,

Of course, the outcome will depend on who else will be in that group, but IMO, that box of GF cookies sounds like an idea worth a try. Surely, no one would realistically expect a business associate to eat something that will make him or her sick, just so they could appear perfectly normal. These days, surely most people have heard of Chelsea Clinton's GF wedding cake, Wimbledon champion Novak Djokovic's GF diet, and Elizabeth Hasselbeck's publicity about the GF diet. That puts you in the same class as those celebrites.

This all brings me to the Pepto questions:
* Does anyone know what the dose is? 8 tablets per day for 8 weeks?

Yes, it's 8 or 9 tablets per day, (or the liquid equivalent), for 8 weeks.

* If 80% of people have MC resolve with the Pepto treatment, and most of those don't have relapses, that is pretty good. Do you know if the people that the treatment was successful for were gluten intolerant?

It's not only pretty good, it's way better than the efficacy of most drugs on the market. According to the research report, presumably approximately 67% of those people were sensitive to gluten.

* are all people with MC gluten intolerant?

According to Dr. Fine's research, (published over 10 years ago), approximately 67% of people with MC are sensitive to gluten. Note that among the members of this board, however, the percentage is much higher - well over 90 %. In fact, if I had to make a WAEG, I would guess that it is in the 95% + range.

* If gluten (or some other allergy) is damaging the body, is the successful use of Pepto (i.e., long term remission) just masking the symptoms, while damage continues?

It isn't the Pepto that heals the gut - it's the diet. The Pepto speeds up the process by helping to suppress the inflammation early on, so that the gut can heal faster. If the Pepto treatment is done without the diet, relapse rates are very high, after the Pepto treatment is completed. That's why most GI docs don't get great long-term results from the Pepto treatment - they "forget" to advise the patients that they must adhere to the GF diet, in conjunction with the diet, and for the rest of their life, if they want to remain in remission.

Tex

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:40 pm

You are asking very good questions, and it's great news you're feeling better after 4 GF days.

Some people have MC brought on by a drug reaction - and for some of those people, discontinuing that medication will bring about remission.

A very large number of us are gluten sensitive... even some whose MC is brought on by a medication may find that the genetic sensitivity to gluten, once triggered, does not just go away once the drug is gone.

Pepto helped me - not everyone can tolerate it, so be alert for side effects. I did start at 8/day, and I didn't take it for 8 weeks. I found it very helpful (perhaps because I had already slammed the lid on diet stuff), and I was able to keep from backsliding even though I backed off that dose pretty fast. I used the 'capsules' - not the chewables or liquid, and I still keep them in my purse just in case.

Your last question is very insightful - yes, I believe that if you have a true intolerance to gluten, Pepto will not be able to hold off symptoms entirely, or for long. I would be very surprised if I could handle gluten now, even in very small amounts, no matter how much Pepto I try. I had an experience a few months ago where I was told something was OK that wasn't - Pepto kept me from having to canceling an important engagement (six days later!), but I was off my game that whole week. Maybe in a year when I am more healed, it would be less severe, but nothing I'd want to risk, despite the help of Pepto. Some members here have found the Rx drug Entocort to be of enormous help. It is nonetheless important to eliminate gluten and other foods that cause a reaction, or your instinct is right - once you begin to reduce the dosage or eliminate it, any masked reaction will show up again.

I do eat out - restaurants are becoming increasingly aware and helpful. Sometimes calling ahead will help. If I don't know how things will play out, I make a point never to show up ravenous... my purse has been stocked with potato chips, almond butter, chicken thighs, hardboiled eggs (darn, can't eat eggs any more), leftover steak, Larabars... it does take some practice, but several people here travel and entertain clients for work quite regularly.

A waiter said to me this week, "if it's just an intolerance, that's one thing, but if you're celiac..." - so feel free to declare yourself celiac for this week of travel, because apparently that word just got some play on NPR ;) The idea that it's OK to be sick as a dog in a nonceliac way is crazy, but at least gluten awareness is growing, and more people understand that "just a little" is not OK I have only been GF a few months and have found that the consciousness about gluten is increasing all the time, so your colleagues and clients may be more attuned than you fear.

To maximize your business travel time next week, I would plan to prep/bring what you can, and try to eliminate dairy as well as gluten, just to give yourself the best shot at keeping your mind off your symptoms. I recently had a week of vacation travel, and ate breakfast daily in my the hotel room (bananas, rice cakes, almond butter... I found a delicious fruit baby-food thing, go figure - it was close to my hotel). I carried almond butter packets in my back, and ate a ridiculous amount of potato chips.

For sharing food - we sometimes get a roast-potato appetizer that comes with a sauce on it, and ask for the sauce on the side. You'll start to see opportunities for other foods that work for sharing without putting you in harm's way.

Hope this helps. Your thinking is good - hope your work week of travel is a success.

Keep us posted,

Sara

Gloria · Post by **Gloria** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:27 pm

T&E,

This thread may give you some ideas: http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14181

We have a member who travels quite a bit for his job - Hoosier1. You might try to send him a PM and ask him how he handles it. He posted in the thread above. To PM him, just click on the PM button at the bottom of his post.

Gloria

ant · Post by **ant** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:00 am

Dear T&E

You know the saying "the customer is always right." Thus generally, if my client wants X, we do X. I am traveling 3 days next week and am very, very anxious.

I hear you. I am in the consultancy business and am supposed to 'wine and dine' on occasions...

Luckily I can drink dry wine (not beer or sweet drinks). So when the client orders a beer I order a wine and it looks all "normal". Food.... a bit more difficult ....that is when I bring out my official looking laminated "To the chef" card.

This is what it says and by claiming 'celiac' everyone seems to understand it is 'important' and I am not just a 'food crank'.

To The Chef…. I suffer from Celiac & Microscopic Colitis causing multiple food intolerances.

CAN EAT:
• (Unprocessed) meat, fish, shellfish - grilled, roasted, fried or baked.
• Rice – boiled, steamed or fried in olive oil, rice noodles. Rice or water chestnut flour.
• Salt, pepper, herbs, garlic, onion, dried coconut.
• Vinegar (EXCEPT NO malt vinegar).
• Olive oil (not other vegetable oils), pure coconut oil, pure balsamic oil (not artificially coloured since that contains gluten).
• Well-cooked peeled vegetables (EXCEPT NO: bean, pea, tomato, potato, bell pepper and corn).
• Mushroom, banana, olive, avocado, nuts (EXCEPT NO peanuts and cashew nuts), cooked fruit.
• Wine, spirits, coconut milk (no guar gum added), green tea, pure coco, black coffee, tea.

CAN EAT IN SMALL AMOUNTS:
• Cane Sugar, glucose, fructose, pure maple syrup, honey, raw fruit.

CANNOT EAT
• Gluten (and similar) – wheat, rye, oat, corn, semolina/tapioca – that is in flour, bread, cake, biscuit, wheat pasta, cuscus, tapioca, beer, malt vinegar.
• Soy, Soya/Tofu, Soy lechtin, Worcester source or MSG.
• Dairy – milk, cream, butter, cheese.
• Bean, pea, guar gum, peanut or cashew nut
• Egg
• Potato, tomato, eggplant, bell pepper
• Raw vegetables (e.g. salad)
• Cashew nut and peanut.
• High fructose corn syrup, aspartame.
• Vegetable oils – except Olive Oil, which is fine.

You may find this useful,

Best, ant

trialanderror · Post by **trialanderror** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:38 pm

Lunch seems as if it might be even harder than dinner. Usually for before dinner with clients there is a break to go back to the hotel room where I could eat something, and then order safe items at dinner -- I will have to see how it works.

trialanderror · Post by **trialanderror** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:43 pm

Ant,

Thanks for the suggestions. At times I feel like the challenges of travel and "wining and dining" are going to be almost impossible to overcome.

It sounds that you have more food intolerances than just gluten -- is that correct?