Fecal gut transplant completed
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Well, ciclosporin is a newer immunosuppressant that's used for purposes such as kidney transplants, and to treat autoimmune issues, (including RA, Crohn's disease, etc.), but I'm certainly no authority on immunosuppressants.
Maybe Joe compared all the options before he made a selection, and he might be able to offer some insight on the risk/reward ratios of the available options.
Tex
Maybe Joe compared all the options before he made a selection, and he might be able to offer some insight on the risk/reward ratios of the available options.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Joefnh
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Tex I did look at several choices and given the risks and benefits of the job at hand I did choose Imuran. It does require monitoring especially at first as that is the riskiest part of the treatment, will your body deal with it well. After about 8 weeks and your dosage has been tweaked the risk is fairly low that you will have complications taking the med.
From the research I have done Imuran also has a 30+ year track record with excellent safety numbers. None of the choices including the biologics like humira work quickly though, they all take several months to take effect, but once they do they make a world of difference in how you feel when dealing with autoimmune conditions.
The immune suppressants take a while to work as they really nudge the immune system to a point that is effective to address the needs of the patient. Generally they do not suppress the immune system below the lower end of the normal limits of white blood cell counts, neutrophils and overall lymphocyte counts. For instance I normally have a WBC count of about 8.5k and with the imuran it's been brought down to about 4k. The normal limits for the general population are 4k to 10k. My other numbers are also still in the normal range.
The one upside benefit of the biologics is that they generally do not require as much monitoring of the liver functions, they however have had a much higher complication rate and are quite new and haven't built up a track record. Then if cost is an issue any of the biologics are extremely expensive.
Overall once you get your dosage of Imuran dialed in the safety record is quite good. As far as use for this procedure, it would take finding a doc to prescribe them and then monitor you and adjust the dosage to get you into a stable pattern of suppression. The next issue would be the insurance companies covering the blood work for a procedure like this, that might prove to be interesting.
From the research I have done Imuran also has a 30+ year track record with excellent safety numbers. None of the choices including the biologics like humira work quickly though, they all take several months to take effect, but once they do they make a world of difference in how you feel when dealing with autoimmune conditions.
The immune suppressants take a while to work as they really nudge the immune system to a point that is effective to address the needs of the patient. Generally they do not suppress the immune system below the lower end of the normal limits of white blood cell counts, neutrophils and overall lymphocyte counts. For instance I normally have a WBC count of about 8.5k and with the imuran it's been brought down to about 4k. The normal limits for the general population are 4k to 10k. My other numbers are also still in the normal range.
The one upside benefit of the biologics is that they generally do not require as much monitoring of the liver functions, they however have had a much higher complication rate and are quite new and haven't built up a track record. Then if cost is an issue any of the biologics are extremely expensive.
Overall once you get your dosage of Imuran dialed in the safety record is quite good. As far as use for this procedure, it would take finding a doc to prescribe them and then monitor you and adjust the dosage to get you into a stable pattern of suppression. The next issue would be the insurance companies covering the blood work for a procedure like this, that might prove to be interesting.
Joe
Very interesting discussion here.
I have been rotating my meats and vegetables for 1 1/2 years, but am no longer able to rotate corn, my only grain, or almonds. I hold my breath and hope that I won't become intolerant to either. I eat them both every day and I would lose a lot of weight without them.
I've been monitoring my diet for nearly 5 years and am still discovering new intolerances. When I was off Entocort in the summer, I had to eliminate ghee, rice, and quinoa. This past month, I believe I've discovered that I'm intolerant to garlic and am suspicious of broccoli. I've stopped eating both, and for the first time in months, haven't had a BM yet today (it's 8:30 p.m.). The problem with eliminating additional foods is two-fold: one, like Ginny, I can't add the foods back - presumably because my gut has never healed - and two, eliminating another food has never meant the end of the trail; it always means that my immune system is going to find another food in a short time.
I would be very careful about taking Imuran without a doctor's guidance. It's a very powerful drug and needs to be monitored. As I wrote above, though, I don't have any other suggestions. I wish I did.
Gloria
I have been rotating my meats and vegetables for 1 1/2 years, but am no longer able to rotate corn, my only grain, or almonds. I hold my breath and hope that I won't become intolerant to either. I eat them both every day and I would lose a lot of weight without them.
I've been monitoring my diet for nearly 5 years and am still discovering new intolerances. When I was off Entocort in the summer, I had to eliminate ghee, rice, and quinoa. This past month, I believe I've discovered that I'm intolerant to garlic and am suspicious of broccoli. I've stopped eating both, and for the first time in months, haven't had a BM yet today (it's 8:30 p.m.). The problem with eliminating additional foods is two-fold: one, like Ginny, I can't add the foods back - presumably because my gut has never healed - and two, eliminating another food has never meant the end of the trail; it always means that my immune system is going to find another food in a short time.
I would be very careful about taking Imuran without a doctor's guidance. It's a very powerful drug and needs to be monitored. As I wrote above, though, I don't have any other suggestions. I wish I did.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Joe, thanks for your explanation. As far as insurance:
Gloria,
I will be trying another transplant next week. Keep you posted!
I believe a few people have been prescribed this drug for "refractory" diarrhea so my own personal transplants would have no bearing on the insurance. Anyhow, I'm not quite ready to go that route; but maybe in another month of loss weight!The next issue would be the insurance companies covering the blood work for a procedure like this, that might prove to be interesting.
Gloria,
. so true, so true!! I have been so messed up this last week when I added back the starches.The problem with eliminating additional foods is two-fold: one, like Ginny, I can't add the foods back - presumably because my gut has never healed - and two, eliminating another food has never meant the end of the trail; it always means that my immune system is going to find another food in a short time
I will be trying another transplant next week. Keep you posted!
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change those things I can, and WISDOM to know the difference
Ginny,
As we all know, persistence is often critical to success. As Polly mentioned, (in another thread), placement may be critical, because for most people with MC, the inflammation is usually most pronounced in the ascending colon, (the right colon), and often, the terminal ileum, as well - locations that would be available only to a colonoscope. IOW, if repeated attempts using a conventional approach are unsuccessful, a transplant by means of a device the length of a colonoscope might have a much higher probability of success.
Best of luck with your plans,
Tex
As we all know, persistence is often critical to success. As Polly mentioned, (in another thread), placement may be critical, because for most people with MC, the inflammation is usually most pronounced in the ascending colon, (the right colon), and often, the terminal ileum, as well - locations that would be available only to a colonoscope. IOW, if repeated attempts using a conventional approach are unsuccessful, a transplant by means of a device the length of a colonoscope might have a much higher probability of success.
Best of luck with your plans,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.