Is it possible to eat butter?
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Kathy,
Ghee should be safe if you're careful when you separate it, so that the clarified butter doesn't contain any of the casein that settles to the bottom of the pan.
Tex
Ghee should be safe if you're careful when you separate it, so that the clarified butter doesn't contain any of the casein that settles to the bottom of the pan.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
I'm avoiding ghee. As you know, "avoiding" turns out to be my super-power. Wish I'd gotten the ability to fly, or invisibility, but...
My thinking is that, just as we now know that components other than gliadin can cause a reaction in those with celiac (maybe including me), maybe some component in dairy other than casein could have negative effects for those of us who react to casein.
I know we're balancing risks and benefits here - and I do see the benefit. I'm uncomfortable with *any* avoidable risk, in this arena, though I believe I approach other areas of life with a somewhat different philosophy.
At least some of us do tolerate ghee, for sure, but I don't know whether I can, and am unwilling to risk further (possibly cumulative?) health setbacks to find out, since I have several other excellent fat sources that are working.
Fingers crossed for everyone who's trying it, that it works for you,
Sara
I'm avoiding ghee. As you know, "avoiding" turns out to be my super-power. Wish I'd gotten the ability to fly, or invisibility, but...
My thinking is that, just as we now know that components other than gliadin can cause a reaction in those with celiac (maybe including me), maybe some component in dairy other than casein could have negative effects for those of us who react to casein.
I know we're balancing risks and benefits here - and I do see the benefit. I'm uncomfortable with *any* avoidable risk, in this arena, though I believe I approach other areas of life with a somewhat different philosophy.
At least some of us do tolerate ghee, for sure, but I don't know whether I can, and am unwilling to risk further (possibly cumulative?) health setbacks to find out, since I have several other excellent fat sources that are working.
Fingers crossed for everyone who's trying it, that it works for you,
Sara
Sara,
FWIW, back when I was recovering, I tried commercial ghee, and after a few trials, I was convinced that I reacted to it, (not severely, but still, reactions), so I avoided it. My thinking at the time was similar to yours:
1. Butter is a product made 100% from dairy ingredients, (milk).
2. Ghee is a product made 100% from butter.
3. Logically, Ghee can't possibly be anything but a dairy product.
4. Obviously, this flies in the face of ancient Ayurvedic principle, (which claims that ghee is not a dairy product), but if anyone can point out a fallacy in my logic, I'll be happy to embrace ghee as a non-dairy product.
Tex
FWIW, back when I was recovering, I tried commercial ghee, and after a few trials, I was convinced that I reacted to it, (not severely, but still, reactions), so I avoided it. My thinking at the time was similar to yours:
1. Butter is a product made 100% from dairy ingredients, (milk).
2. Ghee is a product made 100% from butter.
3. Logically, Ghee can't possibly be anything but a dairy product.
4. Obviously, this flies in the face of ancient Ayurvedic principle, (which claims that ghee is not a dairy product), but if anyone can point out a fallacy in my logic, I'll be happy to embrace ghee as a non-dairy product.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
Your logic is correct, but your beginning statement assumes that dairy is the problem. In reality, casein is the problem.
Here's another way of stating it:
1. Butter is a product containing casein.
2. Ghee is butter with the casein removed.
3. Logically, someone intolerant to casein will be able to eat ghee, because the casein is removed.
Gloria
Your logic is correct, but your beginning statement assumes that dairy is the problem. In reality, casein is the problem.
Here's another way of stating it:
1. Butter is a product containing casein.
2. Ghee is butter with the casein removed.
3. Logically, someone intolerant to casein will be able to eat ghee, because the casein is removed.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Gloria,
Your logic only holds true, if a person intolerant to casein is perfectly tolerant of all other dairy components. I think that's a stretch.
My thought is that - casein is the component to which they know how to measure the appropriate antibodies. That does not mean it is the *sole* component of dairy that casein-sensitive individuals do not tolerate. Do we even know that an absolutely complete list of the component dairy molecules has been accurately discovered?
So - removing the casein will only help a casein-intolerant person *IF* casein is the only trigger. And this is assuming that the production of ghee, at home or commercially, is perfect as eliminating casein.
As your own experience with ghee shows - those are two huge assumptions. Non-gliadin components of wheat have been shown to cause reactions in gluten-sensitive individuals. I think it's extremely plausible that I, as a person with IgA antibodies to casein, might have shown results to some other form of dairy sensitivity, had such a lab test been available and performed. I say plausible - I don't know that for a fact, but I don't believe I can conclude for a fact that ghee is safe for me, either, based on your 3 points.
Enough of us here have had a run-in with ghee, that I have to ask myself why I would explore such a food, when I have such excellent alternatives.
The tests measure the thing they know how to measure - anti-casein IgA antibodies - that doesn't mean the universe of possibilities is perfectly described by the tests.
Best always,
Sara
Your logic only holds true, if a person intolerant to casein is perfectly tolerant of all other dairy components. I think that's a stretch.
My thought is that - casein is the component to which they know how to measure the appropriate antibodies. That does not mean it is the *sole* component of dairy that casein-sensitive individuals do not tolerate. Do we even know that an absolutely complete list of the component dairy molecules has been accurately discovered?
So - removing the casein will only help a casein-intolerant person *IF* casein is the only trigger. And this is assuming that the production of ghee, at home or commercially, is perfect as eliminating casein.
As your own experience with ghee shows - those are two huge assumptions. Non-gliadin components of wheat have been shown to cause reactions in gluten-sensitive individuals. I think it's extremely plausible that I, as a person with IgA antibodies to casein, might have shown results to some other form of dairy sensitivity, had such a lab test been available and performed. I say plausible - I don't know that for a fact, but I don't believe I can conclude for a fact that ghee is safe for me, either, based on your 3 points.
Enough of us here have had a run-in with ghee, that I have to ask myself why I would explore such a food, when I have such excellent alternatives.
The tests measure the thing they know how to measure - anti-casein IgA antibodies - that doesn't mean the universe of possibilities is perfectly described by the tests.
Best always,
Sara
Gloria,
I had a feeling I was going to get into trouble with that, because I didn't bother to state what I was trying to prove, and I didn't mention that what I set out to prove actually had nothing to do with food-sensitivities, per se.
All that I set out to prove was that ghee is a 100% dairy product, (contrary to popular belief). (The fact that it does not contain any casein is irrelevant to my argument.)
Your logic is quite correct, of course - we're just dealing with two different concepts.
Sorry for the confusion.
Tex
I had a feeling I was going to get into trouble with that, because I didn't bother to state what I was trying to prove, and I didn't mention that what I set out to prove actually had nothing to do with food-sensitivities, per se.
All that I set out to prove was that ghee is a 100% dairy product, (contrary to popular belief). (The fact that it does not contain any casein is irrelevant to my argument.)
Your logic is quite correct, of course - we're just dealing with two different concepts.
Sorry for the confusion.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
But theoretically, ghee should be only butterfat - if the whey is properly skimmed off the top, and the casein is left in the bottom. Remember that milk is only about 3.5% protein, anyway, regardless of which type of milk is being considered, and only proteins can trigger autoimmune reactions.Sara wrote:Your logic only holds true, if a person intolerant to casein is perfectly tolerant of all other dairy components. I think that's a stretch.
Of course, as we all know, it's not really that simple, because as you correctly point out, most milk contains at least 3 or 4 different kinds of casein, plus various whey proteins, (the Enterolab test detects antibodies to only one type of casein, and it detects no antibodies to any of the whey proteins). The major whey proteins in cow milk are beta-lactoglobulin and alpha-lactalbumin, but milk contains whey proteins which are immunoglobulins, (primarily antibodies, which are especially prominent in colostrum), plus serum albumin. In addition to that, there are other whey proteins that include a long list of enzymes, hormones, growth factors, nutrient transporters, disease resistance factors, etc.
In view of all that, it's no wonder that so many of us have trouble with dairy products.
http://classes.ansci.illinois.edu/ansc4 ... otein.html
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I just finished reading all the responses and I sit here with a smile on my face. All one has to do is submit a question that is bothering them or wondering about. And, so many people jump in with their amazing knowledge, personal experiences, opinions, etc. This is what truely makes this such a wonderful forum.
Thank you all for what you do for everyone else here.
Nancy
PS: I made clarified butter yesterday and used some in my waffle batter this morning. I split it between that and olive oil. I hope everything settles without a problem. Time will tell.
Thank you all for what you do for everyone else here.
Nancy
PS: I made clarified butter yesterday and used some in my waffle batter this morning. I split it between that and olive oil. I hope everything settles without a problem. Time will tell.
I'm not sure that a
It is wonderful that you have excellent alternatives. Unfortunately, I don't. I'm unable to eat olive oil, coconut oil, ghee, Earth Balance or any other soy-free margarine. I would love to add ghee back into my diet for the flavor it provides.
Gloria
I'm not sure that many of us have been unable to eat ghee. It might be a good idea to take a poll to find out, though our polls aren't scientific. My intolerances are certainly not representative of most of the members of the board.Sara wrote:Enough of us here have had a run-in with ghee, that I have to ask myself why I would explore such a food, when I have such excellent alternatives.
It is wonderful that you have excellent alternatives. Unfortunately, I don't. I'm unable to eat olive oil, coconut oil, ghee, Earth Balance or any other soy-free margarine. I would love to add ghee back into my diet for the flavor it provides.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Gloria,
This is a great example where you and I might start with the same goals - optimiizing variety and nutrition while minimizing or eliminating risk - but need different paths to achieving them. Even if you could find affordable almond oil, it probably wouldn't work properly in every dish. And lard isn't probably ideal for every dish, either (I have never cooked with lard, but am learning uses for duck fat).
It is possible that I could tolerate ghee, but don't want to risk finding out I can't. That's an easier to decision to make, because I am able to turn to duck fat or coconut oil for that type of purpose. I should have written my post to be more clearly about the right path *for me* - and not prescriptive for others.
Sara
This is a great example where you and I might start with the same goals - optimiizing variety and nutrition while minimizing or eliminating risk - but need different paths to achieving them. Even if you could find affordable almond oil, it probably wouldn't work properly in every dish. And lard isn't probably ideal for every dish, either (I have never cooked with lard, but am learning uses for duck fat).
It is possible that I could tolerate ghee, but don't want to risk finding out I can't. That's an easier to decision to make, because I am able to turn to duck fat or coconut oil for that type of purpose. I should have written my post to be more clearly about the right path *for me* - and not prescriptive for others.
Sara
I am one that can tolerate butter, but not milk or cheese. For some reason, the "smart balance"-type spreads all give me a rash, but plain old butter is safe for me. Milk is disastrous, though, and cheese also. So I'm GF, mostly SF, and almost DF!
Pat C.
"Don't sweat the small stuff.
P.S. (It's all small stuff!)"
"Don't sweat the small stuff.
P.S. (It's all small stuff!)"
If you can't find it at the store, ask them if they can get it for you. I found it at Market Basket here in Massachusetts, but the next time I needed it they didn't have and haven't since. I bet a health food store would order it for you.
Just a little note for those who are trying to put on a few pounds and using Earth Balance. It's pretty watery when used for sauteing so a local gluten free baker suggested that when a recipe calls for butter use some Earth Balance and some oil. It does make a difference, it just doesn't have enough fat in it.
Nancy
Just a little note for those who are trying to put on a few pounds and using Earth Balance. It's pretty watery when used for sauteing so a local gluten free baker suggested that when a recipe calls for butter use some Earth Balance and some oil. It does make a difference, it just doesn't have enough fat in it.
Nancy