Hi All,
I ran across something while doing research for the "current research" chapter of my book, that seems so important, that I thought I should post it here, ASAP.
As Polly has warned us previously, the "cheap" form of vitamin A, found in so many vitamin A supplements, (retinol), should be minimized in our diet, because it tends to tie up the activation of vitamin D, preventing it from being fully effective, and defeating vitamin D's cancer-preventing properties, and probably most of it's other most beneficial attributes. However, there is another reason why retinol should be avoided, especially by anyone who is gluten-sensitive, or anyone who is vulnerable to becoming gluten-sensitive, (IOW, anyone who has genes that predispose to gluten-sensitivity).
Research shows that retinoic acid, (which is another first-generation retinoid, related to retinol), can combine with interleukin-15, (IL-15), to produce inflammation, which triggers celiac disease, (gluten-sensitive enteropathy). I'll carry that a step further by pointing out that it almost certainly may play a role in the development of IBDs as well. Consider that isotretinoin is another first-generation retinoid, and is the active ingredient in Accutane, (notorious for causing people who used the product to control acne, to have an increased risk of developing an IBD).
Therefore, IMO, if we take a vitamin A supplement, or a multivitamin that contains vitamin A, (as all of them do), it behooves us to try to find a way to minimize our retinol intake. The beta-carotene form of vitamin A is safe, and the body can make all the vitamin A it needs from beta-carotene. Researchers are searching for a way to block IL-15, but until a method is found, and brought to market, taking retinol is a risky proposition, IMO.
http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorder ... ac-disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21307853
Those articles imply that blocking IL-15 might be sufficient to provide an effective way to control existing celiac disease/gluten-sensitive enteropathy. That seems as though it might be a bit of a stretch, to me, but I guess we'll see, whenever someone brings a product to market that will effectively block IL-15.
Tex
My Thoughts On Vitamin A
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
My Thoughts On Vitamin A
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinyl_palmitatePalmitate is the major component of palm oil.
Does this mean that we should also be avoiding palm oil?
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
As far as I'm aware, only retinoids, (specifically, first-generation retionoids), are involved. An ester would have different properties, so palmitate shouldn't be a problem. Of course, I'm no chemist, so I could be all wet. 
EDIT: Whoa! I have to change my opinion on that one - it's definitely risky, based on the following quote from the Wikipedia article at your link:
Tex
EDIT: Whoa! I have to change my opinion on that one - it's definitely risky, based on the following quote from the Wikipedia article at your link:
If that's true, then palmitate, (and palm oil), is bad news for anyone with gluten-sensitive genes.Retinyl palmitate is also a constituent of some topically applied skin care products. After its absorption into the skin, retinyl palmitate is converted to retinol, and ultimately to retinoic acid (the active form of vitamin A present in Retin-A).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Susan,
Yes, palmitate is the main component of all palm oil. "Retinyl acetate", "retinol acetate", and "vitamin A acetate", are all names for the same thing. They refer to the acetate ester of retinol, which, as far as I can tell, is ultimately converted to retinoic acid by the body. That means that for anyone sensitive to gluten, it could combine with IL-15 and generate inflammation.
Tex
Yes, palmitate is the main component of all palm oil. "Retinyl acetate", "retinol acetate", and "vitamin A acetate", are all names for the same thing. They refer to the acetate ester of retinol, which, as far as I can tell, is ultimately converted to retinoic acid by the body. That means that for anyone sensitive to gluten, it could combine with IL-15 and generate inflammation.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
thanks, Tex, but I'm still confused.
I just bought an oil for moisturizing that contains palm oil--I had to look forever to find something without grapeseed, soy, sunflower, safflower, and almond oil, which I can't tolerate. So does this information that you've shared mean that the palm oil itself is a problem or do we have to be using retinyl palmitate, as a source of retinol, to have the inflammatory reaction? Also, my multi vitamin contains ascorbyl palmitate as one source of vitamin C--would that be a problem too?
I think that is what you are actually saying, but I'm having a hard time processing it and understanding it--no doubt because i don't want to deal with yet another problem!
Sorry to be persistent about this but just want to make sure i'm getting it. thanks so much.
I just bought an oil for moisturizing that contains palm oil--I had to look forever to find something without grapeseed, soy, sunflower, safflower, and almond oil, which I can't tolerate. So does this information that you've shared mean that the palm oil itself is a problem or do we have to be using retinyl palmitate, as a source of retinol, to have the inflammatory reaction? Also, my multi vitamin contains ascorbyl palmitate as one source of vitamin C--would that be a problem too?
I think that is what you are actually saying, but I'm having a hard time processing it and understanding it--no doubt because i don't want to deal with yet another problem!
Sorry to be persistent about this but just want to make sure i'm getting it. thanks so much.
Hi Tex,
Wow, there is so much to learn!
In a past you kindly provided me info on Vitamin A particularly the retinol form blocking VitaminD/calcium absorption/bone density issues. My multi vitamin ran out and I stopped taking it at that time due to the Vitamin A issue. I also was previously taking fish oil pills but changed to 1 teaspoon of cod liver oil a day as the cod liver oil had less A in it compared to the fish oil tablets. So my question is as follows: My cod liver oil Carlson Norwegian cod liver oil has 850 IU of vitamin A, 17% DV but does not identify what type of A. I'm also eating 3 ounce/85 g of carrots per day and the bag says that serving has 120% DV for that serving size. If I stay on the cod liver oil/carrot regimen and continue to eliminate the multivitamin does it appear that I'm getting adequate A and the right kind of A but not too much A? I'm also taken the quantites of D and calcium that you've previously posted about.
After our discussion last time I spent awhile in Vitamin Shoppe trying to find a multi vitamin with lowerish A and the right kind of A but could not find that available so discontinued multivitamin at that time.
I look forward to your feedback. Brandy
Wow, there is so much to learn!
In a past you kindly provided me info on Vitamin A particularly the retinol form blocking VitaminD/calcium absorption/bone density issues. My multi vitamin ran out and I stopped taking it at that time due to the Vitamin A issue. I also was previously taking fish oil pills but changed to 1 teaspoon of cod liver oil a day as the cod liver oil had less A in it compared to the fish oil tablets. So my question is as follows: My cod liver oil Carlson Norwegian cod liver oil has 850 IU of vitamin A, 17% DV but does not identify what type of A. I'm also eating 3 ounce/85 g of carrots per day and the bag says that serving has 120% DV for that serving size. If I stay on the cod liver oil/carrot regimen and continue to eliminate the multivitamin does it appear that I'm getting adequate A and the right kind of A but not too much A? I'm also taken the quantites of D and calcium that you've previously posted about.
After our discussion last time I spent awhile in Vitamin Shoppe trying to find a multi vitamin with lowerish A and the right kind of A but could not find that available so discontinued multivitamin at that time.
I look forward to your feedback. Brandy
Brandy, when I became concerned about the Vitamin A in fish oil I switched to this Carlson Liquid. It's very mild.
DH and I drink a tsp of it straight a day but it could be stirred into something if desired. http://www.carlsonlabs.com/p-70-very-fi ... lavor.aspx
DH and I drink a tsp of it straight a day but it could be stirred into something if desired. http://www.carlsonlabs.com/p-70-very-fi ... lavor.aspx
Susan,
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about chemistry to be familiar with all these various ingredients. In general, as far as I'm aware, all palm oil is comprised mostly of retinyl palmitate - that's the main ingredient, because that's what nature provides. Once it is absorbed into the skin, I have no idea how effective the conversion to retinoic acid is likely to be - there probably aren't very many people in the world who would have an accurate assessment of that process. There will be differences in absorption rates, and probably differences in conversion rates, so it's difficult to establish any meaningful numbers. The risk exists, but we can only guess at how significant, (or possibly how insignificant), it might be.
Ascorbyl palmitate is an ester of ascorbic acid and palmitic acid. It's probably not a significant source of vitamin A, but some people equate it with trans fatty acids as far as it's effects on health are concerned.
Brandy,
Dr. Cannell classifies cod liver oil as closely akin to poison, while the Weston A. Price Foundation loves it, based on historical information. Unfortunately, the product seems to have changed over the years, so much of that historical data quoted by the Weston A. Price Foundation may be worthless. All I know is that it's a rich source of retinoic acid. Consider this:
http://www.easy-immune-health.com/cod-l ... ation.html
There are all sorts of views on this issue, but I tend to consider this explanation as probably close to the truth. Almost everything changes over time.
Tex
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about chemistry to be familiar with all these various ingredients. In general, as far as I'm aware, all palm oil is comprised mostly of retinyl palmitate - that's the main ingredient, because that's what nature provides. Once it is absorbed into the skin, I have no idea how effective the conversion to retinoic acid is likely to be - there probably aren't very many people in the world who would have an accurate assessment of that process. There will be differences in absorption rates, and probably differences in conversion rates, so it's difficult to establish any meaningful numbers. The risk exists, but we can only guess at how significant, (or possibly how insignificant), it might be.
Ascorbyl palmitate is an ester of ascorbic acid and palmitic acid. It's probably not a significant source of vitamin A, but some people equate it with trans fatty acids as far as it's effects on health are concerned.
Brandy,
Dr. Cannell classifies cod liver oil as closely akin to poison, while the Weston A. Price Foundation loves it, based on historical information. Unfortunately, the product seems to have changed over the years, so much of that historical data quoted by the Weston A. Price Foundation may be worthless.
All I know is that it's a rich source of retinoic acid. Consider this:Also, there is some evidence that:For reasons that researchers do not understand, cod liver oil USED to be a good source of Vitamin D, but the cod liver oil that is harvested today just simply does not have the amount of Vitamin D in it that your Grandma's cod liver oil did and now, while cod liver oil's Omega 3 Fatty Acid Benefits are undeniable, cod liver oil should be seen predominantly as a Vitamin A supplement.
Unfortunately, it's not even a very good vitamin A supplement either. Cod liver oil information from many studies show that Cod Liver Oil contains Vitamin A in a form called Retinoic Acid and according to the paper Cod Liver Oil, Vitamin A Toxicity, Frequent Respiratory Infections, and the Vitamin D Deficiency Epidemic,
"...there is a profound inhibition of
vitamin D-activated...gene expression
by retinoic acid."
In other words, Vitamin A as retinoic acid prevents Vitamin D from being utilized. So, in our world of SEVERE Vitamin D Deficiency, with up to 85% of people already not getting enough vitamin D, the Cod Liver Oil Information that we have shows that giving this foul-tasting substance could just be making the problem even WORSE!
"...chronic vitamin A consumption might represent an appreciable cause of chronic liver disease... prolonged and continuous consumption of doses in the low "therapeutic" range can result in life-threatening liver damage."
http://www.easy-immune-health.com/cod-l ... ation.html
There are all sorts of views on this issue, but I tend to consider this explanation as probably close to the truth. Almost everything changes over time.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
-
Sheila
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Retinoic acid for the skin
Tex, is retinol absorbed through the skin harmful? I use retinoic acid on my face periodically as a way to peel off the outer layers of skin to keep sun damage (actinic keratoses) to a minimum. Okay, it's also used to help get rid of fine wrinkles and that's the main attraction. 
I've been using this skin "system", it consists of 3 different products, for several years and it works beautifully. The product I use is prescription strength.
Thanks.
Sheila W.
I've been using this skin "system", it consists of 3 different products, for several years and it works beautifully. The product I use is prescription strength. Thanks.
Sheila W.
To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.
A person who never made a mistake never tried something new. Einstein
A person who never made a mistake never tried something new. Einstein
Well, if I understand the research project correctly it probably is. Remember, this is all at the research stage, so it's difficult to say how closely it correlates with actual, real-life experiences.Sheila wrote:Tex, is retinol absorbed through the skin harmful?
If you can't tell any difference in your inflammation level, (in your intestines), after you use it, it may have only a minor, or even an insignificant, effect.
Of course, if you use it daily, you wouldn't be able to tell any difference, but if you use it only once every couple of weeks or so, then you should be able to tell if it has any inflammatory effect.Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
With my limited diet, I have to take a multivitamin supplement in order to get adequate nutrients. I haven't been able to find an allergy-free multivitamin that contains vitamin A as 100% beta carotene . Most of them have a combination of retinol or palmitate.
It seems that I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I am hoping that Freeda realizes that they have to change their formulas, but they are presently selling a Vitamin A Palmitate 15,000 IU supplement. Apparently they don't know about its connection to inflammation.
Gloria
It seems that I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I am hoping that Freeda realizes that they have to change their formulas, but they are presently selling a Vitamin A Palmitate 15,000 IU supplement. Apparently they don't know about its connection to inflammation.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Gloria,
I haven't seen any multivitamins without some form of retinol, either - there probably aren't any, at this point.
Tex
I haven't seen any multivitamins without some form of retinol, either - there probably aren't any, at this point.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Gloria
Perque makes a multi that has only beta-carotene (5,000 IU). It's called life guard. You can find it at perque.com.
Pure encapsulations also makes a multi called Nutrient 950, which you can get without vitamin A. Also, without copper and iron. I dropped vitamin A a couple of years ago and that's the one I use. However, that's the one that has a small amount of ascorbyl palmitate in addition to a larger dose of ascorbic acid--don't know why but that's what they do.
I have found that bone formulas actually might be better. The ones I've looked at don't have vitamins A or E but do have B vitamins, C and D and usually K and a range of minerals. They have them at Perque, Pure Encapsulations and Thorne.
I'm not sure if these companies allow direct purchase (I know Perque does not), so you have to go through a health care professional. I had the good fortune to have an access account set up for me with a supplier. If you could find a health care professional (acupuncturist, chiropractor, ND, or even MD) who accesses those products they can help you order them and maybe even set up an account for you. If you have trouble let me know and maybe I can help.
These are not inexpensive products. I think Pure Encapsulations and Thorne give the prices on the websites. I think you can probably see prices at a website called Emerson Ecologics, but you have to know the name and maker of the product you are looking for, and you can't order unless you have an account, which only a participating professional can set up for you.
Hope this may help you some.
Susan
Perque makes a multi that has only beta-carotene (5,000 IU). It's called life guard. You can find it at perque.com.
Pure encapsulations also makes a multi called Nutrient 950, which you can get without vitamin A. Also, without copper and iron. I dropped vitamin A a couple of years ago and that's the one I use. However, that's the one that has a small amount of ascorbyl palmitate in addition to a larger dose of ascorbic acid--don't know why but that's what they do.
I have found that bone formulas actually might be better. The ones I've looked at don't have vitamins A or E but do have B vitamins, C and D and usually K and a range of minerals. They have them at Perque, Pure Encapsulations and Thorne.
I'm not sure if these companies allow direct purchase (I know Perque does not), so you have to go through a health care professional. I had the good fortune to have an access account set up for me with a supplier. If you could find a health care professional (acupuncturist, chiropractor, ND, or even MD) who accesses those products they can help you order them and maybe even set up an account for you. If you have trouble let me know and maybe I can help.
These are not inexpensive products. I think Pure Encapsulations and Thorne give the prices on the websites. I think you can probably see prices at a website called Emerson Ecologics, but you have to know the name and maker of the product you are looking for, and you can't order unless you have an account, which only a participating professional can set up for you.
Hope this may help you some.
Susan