Connection Between Celiac and Hashimoto's Thyroiditis

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:39 pm

Markers of potential coeliac disease in patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis

http://www.eje-online.org/content/146/4/479.abstract

My #$%>! endo only did a TSH on me last week and because it was "in range" declared that everything is perfect and I don't need to re-test for six months. Since I am sick and tired of feeling sick and tired, I have decided to take my thyroid medicating into my own hands. There is plenty of desiccated thyroid out there without a prescription (including on amazon.com, go figure). Don't worry, I'll be careful...

Anyway, in my casting about, I ran across this article. It's several years old, but I thought it was of note.

There are links at the bottom to other articles.

racenfan · Post by **racenfan** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:16 pm

I went through almost the same experience. After months of months of being so tired I could not accomplish anything, and having a full body rash, they tested my antibodies, which were high, but because my TSH was in the "normal range" (2.95) the dr said it wasn't treatable, and he even said "If you really are having all those symptoms then something else must be seriously wrong because until your TSH is 3.0 I can't even treat you." HUH??? so .05 more and I am allowed to be sick? This was the Mayo, the same guy told me that Celiac/gluten intolerance had nothing to do with Hoshimoto's and was unrelated and that I read to many things on the internet. He suggested I visit this Endocrinology website he and other endo's collaborated on before posting anything to, so it was all proffesional, and in at least 3 different spots of "his" website it said celiac was the number one autoimmune disease related to Hoshi's. It cost me $256.00 to find out he was full of crap, I found another dr that placed me on meds and with the lowest possible dose my numbers are awesome.

I had been gluten free for approx 3-4 months before I saw him, and if I get any gluten other than a whole slew of issues, first and foremost I break out in a rash, he wanted me to go back on gluten to be tested, I laughed in his face, I did forget to tell him the my Entrolab test and my rash was all the proof I would ever need.

Post by **tex** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:13 pm

IMO, the acceptance of the TSH test as a diagnostic criterion for thyroid problems was probably the worst thing that has ever happened to patients with thyroid issues, because it removes the necessity for the physician to do any thinking, so they all jump at the opportunity to let the test results do the "thinking" for them. The fallacy with that test, is the fact that not everyone actually falls into that so-called "normal" range, before they have symptoms. And no one is ever tested, to get a baseline result, until they actually have the symptoms of thyroid issues, so that any of us who happen to be unlucky enough to be in that "Catch-22" situation, are completely out of luck, when we try to get medical help.

My TSH results have been steadily declining, over the years, (it was mid-range, when I started taking thyroid supplement, about 7 years ago, (but my Free T4 was below range). Last fall, my TSH number finally dropped below the normal range, (indicating that I'm taking too much thyroid supplement), but my free T4 was also below range, (indicating that I need more thyroid supplement). When I pointed out that dilemma, to my old country doctor, he said not to worry about it - we'll see what the next test shows. Since my heart rate had declined during the summer, and suddenly began increasing, a month or two before that test, (indicating an overdose of thyroid supplement), I decided to try doing without a thyroid supplement for a few days, to get the level down, and then I took one every other day, or every third day. That was a bad mistake, because in about a week, I was having major breathing difficulties. It took about 10 days or so, at the regular dose, to get back to where I could breath right, again. When I asked my doctor about that, naturally, he pointed out that a thyroid hormone deficiency can't cause that symptom, so I left him with an article that sites several case studies that described the exact same phenomenon.

I'm afraid to go to an endo, because with my TSH below normal, I have no doubt that I would be instructed to discontinue taking a supplement, and I have no desire to go through that again. For a couple of nights, I got no sleep at all, because my breathing was so labored, that it prevented me from sleeping. It was kind of like a life-threatening asthma attack, (which I've been through once, when I was a teenager, but there was no wheezing or bronchial tube restriction - my diaphragm simply wouldn't work right, because of nerve damage. I think it's called thyroid neuropathy, if I remember correctly.

I wish that I was aware of a doctor somewhere, who was actually qualified to treat cases such as ours - cases that don't fit the typical pattern. Most specialists do pretty well, as long as a disease is "well-behaved", (borrowing a term from engineering and mathematics, that describes an equation that performs according to classic rules), but for those of us with unusual cases, the medical community is typically lost, so they default to the same old advice that they dish out to "normal" patients.

Of course, MC is not a "well-behaved" disease, either, so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that the GI docs don't have the market cornered on incompetence, when they're faced with issues that don't fit the recipe that they were trained to use in med school.

Tex

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:16 pm

Marliss,
Thanks for the article links. I need to send it to the 4

people I know with Hashimoto's. Only 2 of them consider themselves "gluten sensitive" and they cheat on the diet. It's also a good reminder that my occasional thyroid-like symptoms may indeed be thyroid, even with a consistently normal TSH.

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:53 pm

Zizzle, I suspect the way to clarify whether your symptoms are thyroid-related is to take your temperature. Here's a good article explaining how, including for ovulating women.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/temperature and this one to understand it http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabol ... ture-graph

Dr. Rind practices near you, and was disciplined in 2000 for some stuff: http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/rind.shtml. So buyer beware.

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:04 pm

Interesting! I took my temp for several days a couple of weeks ago - I ranged between 97.1 and 98.2. I was feeling unusually cold too, but I seem better now.

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:14 am

Interesting discussion.

Both my mom and her mom suffered from Hashimoto's thyroiditis and took thyroid medication throughout their lives. My g-ma also had rheumatoid arthritis. Neither was ever diagnosed with any GI disease, but I strongly suspect my mom had gluten sensitivity. She stayed close to home most of her life, and I recall mad dashes she would make to to toilet and constant complaints of "stomache ache". She lived on Alka Seltzer. (Unfortuntely she loved sandwiches and contantly ate them made with white bread). Also, I recall my mom saying numerous times that she never experienced fever, that in fact, her temperature always ran in the subnormal range.

Both my mom and g-ma suffered from "dementia" for the last 10 years of their lives" (small bleeds in the brain, which were attributed to "multi-infarcts").
Of course, I now wonder if both suffered from long-term gluten brain damage instead. Early signs of my mom's dementia were balance-related. She was quite wobbly and had a "shuffling" gait.

One of these days the medical profession will hopefully pull all of this together. Sigh.

Marliss, be sure to go very slowly with your self-treatment, since too much thyroid can have cardiac (and other undesirable) side effects. But I'm sure you know this.

Love,

Polly

raemckee · Post by **raemckee** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:16 am

I have been treated for hypothyroid for 25 years. Two years ago my hair started falling out and I developed scalp psoriasis. My medication needed to be adjusted. My temperature is always around 96.8 and I only when I am sick does my temperature approach 98.6.

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:51 pm

Tex, I've been thinking a lot about your story here. I have read that you should increase the dosage very slowly, half a grain or less every 2-3 weeks, assessing how it makes you feel. The reason is that it's kind of like throwing a rock in a basin of water. The hormones the body is still producing have to adjust to the increase, sort of like the water sloshing in the basin. I wonder if what you did made your hormones "slosh."

Zizzle, when I've taken my temperature, I have noticed that how I feel doesn't relate that closely to my temp. I will feel warm and my temp will be down. I stopped taking it because I thought it was futile. I didn't know that I could self-medicate and I knew my MD wouldn't listen to me and help me regulate my dosage. But I will start again because it is an important piece of information.

Polly, you are sweet.

Thank you. Your concern is well-founded, and I will be very cautious. I have read that the Paleo diet has a good effect on thyroid symptoms, so that is another reason to proceed very, very slowly. And I am chicken. But both my antibodies tests were off the charts, indicating raging Hashi's, so here I am...

I have been thinking about my mother and grandmother, too. My mother died of congestive heart failure, but her brain suffered for some time before that with minor dementia. Both she and my father had/have thyroid and gluten issues. My father, once an extremely intelligent man, now struggles with his memory. A lot of that is from missing my mother for 10 years and finding life very dull, but not all of it.

Rae, are you cold all the time? I have extra pills, so I bumped my medication a little bit for the first time nine days ago. I am starting to feel warm again. It's lovely. After so long in treatment, maybe you should ask your doctor to re-evaluate? Just a thought, if you are uncomfortable.

raemckee · Post by **raemckee** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:25 pm

Marliss: no I'm not cold. I dress in layers and sleep under 4 quilts. I have more trouble when it's hot outside. I tend to get edema in my ankles and calves. I am not overweight, my blood pressure is normal and so is my cholesterol and blood sugar.

Post by **tex** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:40 pm

Marliss,

My normal dose is only 1 grain per day, and my TSH is slightly below range. Yes, I'm sure that I rocked the boat pretty severely, because after 10 days, (when I ran into trouble), I was averaging a third of a grain per day. My temp usually runs between 97.7 and 98.1, on 1 grain. Right now, my BP and heart rate are fine, so I'm reluctant to make any changes. I'm afraid if I increase my dosage, it will push my TSH a lot lower.

Tex

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:51 pm

Quick update: On Sunday I increased my daily dosage of Armour Thyroid by 1/2 grain to a total of 2 grains a day (twice my prescribed dose). I take one pill in the morning and one pill mid-afternoon. I feel AMAZING. Instead of the stamina and desire to get things done being a sometime thing, it is now status quo. I walk around thinking, "So this is what normal feels like."

Post by **tex** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:22 pm

That sounds great. Have you had any significant increase in heart rate?

About a week from now, you should reach homeostasis.

Tex

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:27 pm

No increase in heart rate, that I know of. My heart rate averaged in the low 60's before I tapered off atenolol which artificially lowered it. i didn't measure it before I increased the thyroid medication. It's averaging the mid-70's now.

Post by **tex** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:04 am

That should be fine.

Tex