Hi T,
One other thing. I"m fairly slow to add in new foods i.e. I'll typically try one new food a week or at most every 3-4 days or so. That way I can clearly tell if something new is a problem. It takes out the confusion. Brandy
Worried about rotation
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Wow, I am really happy that so many of you answered my questions. Here’s my current list: Beef, Salmon, Sweet Potato, White potato, Carrot, Yellow squash, Cabbage, Leek, Broccoli, Zucchini with seeds and peels, Cantaloupe, Grape, Plum, Apple. Eating these gave me so much benefit. I was really feeling encouraged. But I ruined it again trying foods that weren’t actually safe. Now I have to start over, but my system seems incredibly reactive. It’s also good to get the votes from everyone that the diet really does work. Over the last 6 weeks as food after “safe” food backfired on me, I started to wonder whether I was just fooling myself that the diet would work. I am reassured that it will.
Brandy, Your plan sounds good. I’m now returning to “few foods,” then when things get better I’ll try expanding. But I’m going to practice patience. It’s not a strong suit of mine, but this going backwards isn’t fun.
Kari, Thanks so much for answering my question. I have too much thyroid—too bad I can’t give you some of my extra! I am really sorry to hear about the elevated blood sugar. I hope it turns out all right. Like you, I am squeamish about meat. I eat it because I have too, but am a natural vegetarian. It’s so strange to be tucking into beef. I suspect eating out is mostly history. I’ll have to bring my own food and leave if the restaurant objects. It was really helpful to hear that it isn’t always a straight line. I really appreciate the pointer toward patience and time.
The rest of this LONG message is just my consolidation of all your advice. Thank you again.
______________________________________
GENERAL: Cook things, eat all in moderation, de-stem things. | Be slow to add in new foods i.e. I'll typically try one new food a week or at most every 3-4 days or so. That way I can clearly tell if something new is a problem. It takes out the confusion. | Beware of gas-forming qualities even if immunologically OK| I seem to do better with veggies than fruits, so I try to do small doses! | I can eat almost all cooked veggies
_____________________________________________
Here’s my consolidated list so far (I left out the ones like nuts and asparagus [sad] that I know don’t work for me):
Turkey - Very few people react to turkey or lamb
Lamb - Very few people react to turkey or lamb
Clams - I never ate clams outside of chowder
Shrimp - I do well with shrimp
Buffalo - Buffalo is usually OK, especially if we can eat beef as you can
Artichoke
Beet - I usually just put a little oil and vinegar, salt and pepper-yum. Sometimes I will combine chunks of beets with avocado with a little dressing as a cold "salad"
Potato - I have noticed too that russet potatoes have a different flavor then red and white ones, and Tex says they have a different kind of starch. So you might try the different kinds of potatoes if you are looking for some variety
Pumpkin - Pumpkin is in the squash family and should be fine
Cucumbers--hold off until you are pretty far into healing and test peeled ones first
Parsnips
Turnips
Radishes--I have 3 in my fridge. I have not tried them raw. I have diced them fine like garlic and cooked them with my sauted greens. Had some gurgling.
Romaine Lettuce --hold off until you are pretty far into healing and then eat the edges,
first. Cut the center ribs out | fiber and gas-forming qualities, so moderation is key | Some of us have problems with salad greens of any sort while we're reacting--too much roughage, I guess. | No lettuce for me either at this point, but I think you are better off with baby salad greens over Romaine
Spinach--cooked--very good for us, also recommend all the other greens cooked--chard, turnip, mustard, collards, etc, raw wait until you are better healed and then destem. | I react very badly to spinach, raw, cooked fresh, or frozen - but I don't know anyone else here who does so that one may be just me
Squash - Squash - I eat it with coconut oil or Earth Balance's organic coconut spread - both of those are also very good with sweet potatoes.
Bok Choy--yum, can cause some gas | fiber and gas-forming qualities, so moderation is key
Green Beans
Rutabaga--I've made these roasted, peel, cut in 1" cubes, put in ziplock w/ EVOO add some tumeric and salt and pepper, shake, foil on cookie sheet, spray foil w/ soy free non stick, roast 450 degree oven for 25-30 minutes, I try to get them almost burnt so they are more like french fries, I've also made mashed rutabagas and potatoes. If you add a potato to your mashed rutabaga the whole thing tastes like mashed potatoes. You can also roast turnips and do mashed turnips and potatoes.
Brussels Sprouts--Leah's recipe looks good, I'm going to try. I've eaten these, can cause a little gas | fiber and gas-forming qualities, so moderation is key | brussel sprouts if they are roasted really well (halved, tossed in olive oil, salt and pepper, roasted at 400 degrees for 25-30 min.)
Mushrooms - I thought these were something like corn that we should avoid but I'm not really sure, would like someone's feedback on mushrooms, also.
Olives - I have a friend with "IBS" who is sensitive to olives, and I think I react to them as well.
Coconut – Generally tolerated
Banana – Generally tolerated
Avocado – good and good for you
Mango – Fine for many
Papaya – Fine for many
Blueberries--Tex has posted some scientific studies that blueberries, huckleberries and apples are supposed to have gut benefits. | Berries are usually fine if I don't eat too much | Blueberries sometimes bother me if I overdo it
Apricot
Kiwi – Kiwi is a question mark (oral allergy?)
Cherries
Figs - Some of us have problems with with figs
Turmeric--I sprinkle generously on any white fish that I bake in oven. Drizzle w/ EVOO and sprinkle on turmeric. I also put turmeric on roasted turnips and rutabags. | May be a natural anti-inflammatory
Brandy, Your plan sounds good. I’m now returning to “few foods,” then when things get better I’ll try expanding. But I’m going to practice patience. It’s not a strong suit of mine, but this going backwards isn’t fun.
Kari, Thanks so much for answering my question. I have too much thyroid—too bad I can’t give you some of my extra! I am really sorry to hear about the elevated blood sugar. I hope it turns out all right. Like you, I am squeamish about meat. I eat it because I have too, but am a natural vegetarian. It’s so strange to be tucking into beef. I suspect eating out is mostly history. I’ll have to bring my own food and leave if the restaurant objects. It was really helpful to hear that it isn’t always a straight line. I really appreciate the pointer toward patience and time.
The rest of this LONG message is just my consolidation of all your advice. Thank you again.
______________________________________
GENERAL: Cook things, eat all in moderation, de-stem things. | Be slow to add in new foods i.e. I'll typically try one new food a week or at most every 3-4 days or so. That way I can clearly tell if something new is a problem. It takes out the confusion. | Beware of gas-forming qualities even if immunologically OK| I seem to do better with veggies than fruits, so I try to do small doses! | I can eat almost all cooked veggies
_____________________________________________
Here’s my consolidated list so far (I left out the ones like nuts and asparagus [sad] that I know don’t work for me):
Turkey - Very few people react to turkey or lamb
Lamb - Very few people react to turkey or lamb
Clams - I never ate clams outside of chowder
Shrimp - I do well with shrimp
Buffalo - Buffalo is usually OK, especially if we can eat beef as you can
Artichoke
Beet - I usually just put a little oil and vinegar, salt and pepper-yum. Sometimes I will combine chunks of beets with avocado with a little dressing as a cold "salad"
Potato - I have noticed too that russet potatoes have a different flavor then red and white ones, and Tex says they have a different kind of starch. So you might try the different kinds of potatoes if you are looking for some variety
Pumpkin - Pumpkin is in the squash family and should be fine
Cucumbers--hold off until you are pretty far into healing and test peeled ones first
Parsnips
Turnips
Radishes--I have 3 in my fridge. I have not tried them raw. I have diced them fine like garlic and cooked them with my sauted greens. Had some gurgling.
Romaine Lettuce --hold off until you are pretty far into healing and then eat the edges,
first. Cut the center ribs out | fiber and gas-forming qualities, so moderation is key | Some of us have problems with salad greens of any sort while we're reacting--too much roughage, I guess. | No lettuce for me either at this point, but I think you are better off with baby salad greens over Romaine
Spinach--cooked--very good for us, also recommend all the other greens cooked--chard, turnip, mustard, collards, etc, raw wait until you are better healed and then destem. | I react very badly to spinach, raw, cooked fresh, or frozen - but I don't know anyone else here who does so that one may be just me
Squash - Squash - I eat it with coconut oil or Earth Balance's organic coconut spread - both of those are also very good with sweet potatoes.
Bok Choy--yum, can cause some gas | fiber and gas-forming qualities, so moderation is key
Green Beans
Rutabaga--I've made these roasted, peel, cut in 1" cubes, put in ziplock w/ EVOO add some tumeric and salt and pepper, shake, foil on cookie sheet, spray foil w/ soy free non stick, roast 450 degree oven for 25-30 minutes, I try to get them almost burnt so they are more like french fries, I've also made mashed rutabagas and potatoes. If you add a potato to your mashed rutabaga the whole thing tastes like mashed potatoes. You can also roast turnips and do mashed turnips and potatoes.
Brussels Sprouts--Leah's recipe looks good, I'm going to try. I've eaten these, can cause a little gas | fiber and gas-forming qualities, so moderation is key | brussel sprouts if they are roasted really well (halved, tossed in olive oil, salt and pepper, roasted at 400 degrees for 25-30 min.)
Mushrooms - I thought these were something like corn that we should avoid but I'm not really sure, would like someone's feedback on mushrooms, also.
Olives - I have a friend with "IBS" who is sensitive to olives, and I think I react to them as well.
Coconut – Generally tolerated
Banana – Generally tolerated
Avocado – good and good for you
Mango – Fine for many
Papaya – Fine for many
Blueberries--Tex has posted some scientific studies that blueberries, huckleberries and apples are supposed to have gut benefits. | Berries are usually fine if I don't eat too much | Blueberries sometimes bother me if I overdo it
Apricot
Kiwi – Kiwi is a question mark (oral allergy?)
Cherries
Figs - Some of us have problems with with figs
Turmeric--I sprinkle generously on any white fish that I bake in oven. Drizzle w/ EVOO and sprinkle on turmeric. I also put turmeric on roasted turnips and rutabags. | May be a natural anti-inflammatory
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Me too, doing "few foods" and trying to be patient about adding things. It seems to be working. Being patient is hard but being sick is harder.tnelson wrote: Brandy, Your plan sounds good. I’m now returning to “few foods,” then when things get better I’ll try expanding. But I’m going to practice patience. It’s not a strong suit of mine, but this going backwards isn’t fun.
Jean
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Deanna in CO
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:16 pm
- Location: Colorado
A couple of others:
Artichokes - I have handled these fine - cut off the stem, wrap them in plastic wrap and microwave until you can stick a fork in the stem end (takes a while - maybe 3-4 minutes for one). I make a lemon juice-SF margarine (you can use coconut oil but it has a funny taste - maybe EVOO?) to dip it in. If you've never eaten artichoke, get someone to show you how as it's a bit tricky the first time. :-)
Green beans - I do fine with these and I think so do most of us. Our bodies don't seem to see these as legumes.
Deanna
Artichokes - I have handled these fine - cut off the stem, wrap them in plastic wrap and microwave until you can stick a fork in the stem end (takes a while - maybe 3-4 minutes for one). I make a lemon juice-SF margarine (you can use coconut oil but it has a funny taste - maybe EVOO?) to dip it in. If you've never eaten artichoke, get someone to show you how as it's a bit tricky the first time. :-)
Green beans - I do fine with these and I think so do most of us. Our bodies don't seem to see these as legumes.
Deanna
Being from California, I never thought of someone not knowing how to eat an artichoke :) I steam mine. It takes 45 min to an hour (depending on size), but you can cook a few at a time. I use Italian type dressing for dipping.
PS using plastic wrap in the microwave can leach plastic chemicals into your food
Leah
PS using plastic wrap in the microwave can leach plastic chemicals into your food
Leah
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Deanna in CO
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:16 pm
- Location: Colorado
Hi T,
I'm at almost the 6 month mark for being GF/DF and the 5 month mark for being DF/EF and have been wondering the same things as you! I haven't tried some of the foods you have listed yet but I do know that I generally do ok with fruits and veggies in limited amounts. I have mast cell issues too so I'm trying to avoid high histamine foods although haven't eliminated them entirely. This past week I had a scare of the watery D coming back for several days which I found disturbing since I've only been eating rice, potatoes, meat, limited fruits & veggies (peeled & well cooked), Chex cereals, tortilla chips (no soybean oil), coconut, dates (I know they're high histamine but it's my dessert- only 2 in a day), and rice/coconut/almond milks. I started wondering about the rotation too but couldn't figure out a worthwhile way of doing it. I was hoping to decrease my Entorcort from 3 mg to something less but I'm too scared to at this time. I was also worried that rice and/or corn maybe starting to not agree with me but am horrified to think of what would be left of my menu.
I'm interested in your progress. I have found that some foods don't cause outright D but manifest in other ways such as severe fatigue and eye burning & pain. I almost think it'd be easier if it was just the D because I'm often left guessing at the culprit.
Good luck introducing foods back into your diet, it's sooo nice to have a little variety. I have a problem limiting my intake. Through trial and error, I've noticed I'm ok with different fruits & veggies as long as it's a little bit with my meal. I tend to overindulge since they are out of the realm of meat-potato-rice.
Deb
I'm at almost the 6 month mark for being GF/DF and the 5 month mark for being DF/EF and have been wondering the same things as you! I haven't tried some of the foods you have listed yet but I do know that I generally do ok with fruits and veggies in limited amounts. I have mast cell issues too so I'm trying to avoid high histamine foods although haven't eliminated them entirely. This past week I had a scare of the watery D coming back for several days which I found disturbing since I've only been eating rice, potatoes, meat, limited fruits & veggies (peeled & well cooked), Chex cereals, tortilla chips (no soybean oil), coconut, dates (I know they're high histamine but it's my dessert- only 2 in a day), and rice/coconut/almond milks. I started wondering about the rotation too but couldn't figure out a worthwhile way of doing it. I was hoping to decrease my Entorcort from 3 mg to something less but I'm too scared to at this time. I was also worried that rice and/or corn maybe starting to not agree with me but am horrified to think of what would be left of my menu.
I'm interested in your progress. I have found that some foods don't cause outright D but manifest in other ways such as severe fatigue and eye burning & pain. I almost think it'd be easier if it was just the D because I'm often left guessing at the culprit.
Good luck introducing foods back into your diet, it's sooo nice to have a little variety. I have a problem limiting my intake. Through trial and error, I've noticed I'm ok with different fruits & veggies as long as it's a little bit with my meal. I tend to overindulge since they are out of the realm of meat-potato-rice.
Deb
Artichokes! I have only eaten one in my life, as a kid. I thought they were very weird at the time, but I should try them again. I have a vague memory of how to eat them.
Gloria, Thanks for the words of encouragement. Sometimes I wonder if I can really make this recede to a back corner of my life. It sure is center-stage right now! My husband is saintly and listens to me endlessly trying to figure out what might have caused what. It's amazing how much time this takes.
Deb, "Guessing at the culprit" is the story of my life right now. I am sticking with the "few foods" until the quality of bowel movements improve. It's very slightly better today than yesterday. I am always trying to tweak the diet. I'm learning that it's best to keep it as simple as possible so that I can get an idea of what's going on. My latest is to peel the potatoes. It seems to have made a difference today, but time will tell. I am going to forget the rotation idea. Rotation is great if you have the foods to do it, but I just can't be rotating with so few foods.
I really understand your scare with the return of WD. Whenever things take a turn for the worse, anxiety just wells up in me. I think the unpredictability and fear take the biggest toll on me.
You mention rice and also some nuts. I am sensitive to both. Rice gives me violent nocturnal D. Fortunately, EnteroLab tests rice and corn and nuts, so I could get a clear answer. Have you had that Enterolab panel or are you going completely on trial and error? Dates are so delish. I can't wait to eat them again. I should add them to my list for later! Interesting about the eye symptoms. I got dry eye before MC and that is so uncomfortable. I use Restasis and it really works for me.
--T
Gloria, Thanks for the words of encouragement. Sometimes I wonder if I can really make this recede to a back corner of my life. It sure is center-stage right now! My husband is saintly and listens to me endlessly trying to figure out what might have caused what. It's amazing how much time this takes.
Deb, "Guessing at the culprit" is the story of my life right now. I am sticking with the "few foods" until the quality of bowel movements improve. It's very slightly better today than yesterday. I am always trying to tweak the diet. I'm learning that it's best to keep it as simple as possible so that I can get an idea of what's going on. My latest is to peel the potatoes. It seems to have made a difference today, but time will tell. I am going to forget the rotation idea. Rotation is great if you have the foods to do it, but I just can't be rotating with so few foods.
I really understand your scare with the return of WD. Whenever things take a turn for the worse, anxiety just wells up in me. I think the unpredictability and fear take the biggest toll on me.
You mention rice and also some nuts. I am sensitive to both. Rice gives me violent nocturnal D. Fortunately, EnteroLab tests rice and corn and nuts, so I could get a clear answer. Have you had that Enterolab panel or are you going completely on trial and error? Dates are so delish. I can't wait to eat them again. I should add them to my list for later! Interesting about the eye symptoms. I got dry eye before MC and that is so uncomfortable. I use Restasis and it really works for me.
--T
Hi Deb. Yeah, it's hard to step down the Entocort if you are still having WD. I wouldn't. You may want to scale back your variety of foods for a week and add things back in to test them. I know it's such a slow process ( because i can't get Enterolab results, I KNOW) - this trial and error thing sucks, but patience is key. I just realized that soy was giving me problems, so I guess I'm done with that :( However, I made an awesome butternut squash soup with curry and coconut milk and it made my day! Hang in there.
T, U-tube "how to eat an artichoke" :)
Leah
T, U-tube "how to eat an artichoke" :)
Leah
-
MaggieRedwings
- King Penguin
- Posts: 3865
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:16 am
- Location: SE Pennsylvania
Hi T,
I agree the list looks pretty good but would avoid the romaine, cucumbers, and for me the mushrooms. I cannot tell you how much I love mushrooms and live in the mushroom capital of the U.S. Tried them again last Friday at lunch and as always chewed the heck out of them and next morning they were floating whole in the loo. I have had the same result every time.
Also, blueberries will not digest for me and watermelon is my worst fruit.
It really does take time and after 11 years of this I still trip up. Did this weekend with some rice - we were away and at the mercy of our hosts - the rice was from a Lebanese restaurant and we presumed the small tan strips in it were a juliened veggie - NOT - it was vermicelli - what a reaction for me and only after 2 forkfulls. Always be dilingent.
Love, Maggie
I agree the list looks pretty good but would avoid the romaine, cucumbers, and for me the mushrooms. I cannot tell you how much I love mushrooms and live in the mushroom capital of the U.S. Tried them again last Friday at lunch and as always chewed the heck out of them and next morning they were floating whole in the loo. I have had the same result every time.
Also, blueberries will not digest for me and watermelon is my worst fruit.
It really does take time and after 11 years of this I still trip up. Did this weekend with some rice - we were away and at the mercy of our hosts - the rice was from a Lebanese restaurant and we presumed the small tan strips in it were a juliened veggie - NOT - it was vermicelli - what a reaction for me and only after 2 forkfulls. Always be dilingent.
Love, Maggie
Maggie Scarpone
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
This is my biggest pet peeve about some middle eastern restaurants, which should otherwise be gluten-friendly. Who needs pasta hiding in their rice!?!? Stop already!the rice was from a Lebanese restaurant and we presumed the small tan strips in it were a juliened veggie - NOT - it was vermicelli - what a reaction for me and only after 2 forkfulls. Always be dilingent.
Two forkfulls! Now I think I understand my reaction to a meal with (probably) contaminated olive oil a month or so ago. I had a run to the bathroom in the middle of the meal and thought it *couldn't* be the oil, but I think it was! I didn't know it could hit that fast.
Thanks for the help with foods, and the reminder about patience and time. I am so impatient that I want more patience--now!
I really fear all restaurants. We will be traveling to Finland in two weeks, and I've rented hotels with kitchens. I just can't eat out right now with only a tiny set of safe foods. I'm planning to take some foods with me. Honestly, I just hope I can find enough to eat! I also hope the airplane travel doesn't set me off--I've heard that high altitude travel can be a problem. But I am NOT missing this trip!
--T
Thanks for the help with foods, and the reminder about patience and time. I am so impatient that I want more patience--now!
I really fear all restaurants. We will be traveling to Finland in two weeks, and I've rented hotels with kitchens. I just can't eat out right now with only a tiny set of safe foods. I'm planning to take some foods with me. Honestly, I just hope I can find enough to eat! I also hope the airplane travel doesn't set me off--I've heard that high altitude travel can be a problem. But I am NOT missing this trip!
--T
Hi T,
I travelled to Norway last year end of June beginning of July. I was super anxious before leaving, because I had finally achieved some traction with my healing. However, the trip went very well. Of course, I stayed with family and was able to cook my own food, but I did a 5 day cruise up the coast of Norway, and also did some train travel. Everyone was very accommodating and helpful, so I managed without any serious flare-ups.
As far as the airplane travel, I had a doctor's note with me that stated that I had to bring my own food on the plane, so that worked out well also. I'm glad to hear you're not going to give up the trip - I'm a firm believer that we have to live our lives despite MC. As long as you take proper precautions, I'm sure you'll do well. Don't remember if imodium works well for you; it does for me, so I brought them along.
Smart of you to have rented hotels with kitchens - you should be able to find good ingredients in Finland to cook up. In Norway, I found gluten friendly markets similar to the ones we have here in Colorado.
Good luck on your trip - look forward to hearing about it when you get back :).
Love,
Kari
I travelled to Norway last year end of June beginning of July. I was super anxious before leaving, because I had finally achieved some traction with my healing. However, the trip went very well. Of course, I stayed with family and was able to cook my own food, but I did a 5 day cruise up the coast of Norway, and also did some train travel. Everyone was very accommodating and helpful, so I managed without any serious flare-ups.
As far as the airplane travel, I had a doctor's note with me that stated that I had to bring my own food on the plane, so that worked out well also. I'm glad to hear you're not going to give up the trip - I'm a firm believer that we have to live our lives despite MC. As long as you take proper precautions, I'm sure you'll do well. Don't remember if imodium works well for you; it does for me, so I brought them along.
Smart of you to have rented hotels with kitchens - you should be able to find good ingredients in Finland to cook up. In Norway, I found gluten friendly markets similar to the ones we have here in Colorado.
Good luck on your trip - look forward to hearing about it when you get back :).
Love,
Kari
"My mouth waters whenever I pass a bakery shop and sniff the aroma of fresh bread, but I am also grateful simply to be alive and sniffing." Dr. Bernstein
I simply cannot get any traction with my healing. This isn't going to work. I am so encouraged that the diet works for everyone else, but I'm spiraling into inflammation that is getting worse, not better. I had my list, which was limited but doable, and over the course of a couple of weeks back in March I improved dramatically to 8-10 (my rating system is 0-10, with 10 being the best), with one bowel movement after breakfast. I was very certain that I was on the road to remission and it was just a matter of eating correctly. Then I added buckwheat a month or so ago. B.M quality dropped slowly to 3-4, then to zero before it became clear that the buckwheat was the problem--there were complicating factors, as always with this diet business. When I gave up buckwheat, I started to see improvement again--back to a 5 (which is soft serve, to use the lingo of this board). But then I tried green peppers, which should have been fine according to my tests, and now B.M.s are back to zero and I'm being wakened in the night. I'm about to die of tiredness, because I can't go back to sleep when I'm wakened and I know the alarm will go off at 6:00. My eyes are puffy from lack of sleep and crying. After every meal it's a complete party in the belly, with noisemakers and lots of action, but I'm not having fun. The green peppers were almost a week ago and B.M. quality is just zero and zero. Always before, when I gave up the offending food, I saw improvement. No one could possibly be more careful with the diet than I am. I never, absolutely never ingest any of the foods to which I am sensitive. I've been gluten and dairy, egg, and soy free (except possibly contamination despite best efforts) since February. I never eat out, and don't eat ANY grains or even quinoa (because of possible contamination). I'm like a sinking ship with no cargo to throw overboard. Sorry for the down post. Thank you to everyone who has been so kind in responding and offering advice.