So most of you have read my post on the calcium...
I have been taking it along with my liquid vitamin D for about a week and ever since I started it, I have had a perfect norman every day! I haven't changed my diet at all, just added those 2 things. How is that possible??! Im not complaining of course, but just very surprised that some vit D and calcium could produce norman for me.
ps-I even backed off on the calcium, just taking half of the rec. dose...
Jenny
norman-norman-norman
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Jenny,
You've described an interesting paradox, because calcium is necessary for the degranulation of mast cells, making it (in a sense) a proinflammatory element. What I mean by this is that calcium doesn't promote inflammation, per se, but it's essential to the normal progression of an inflammatory response. Vitamin D, on the other hand, helps to suppress inflammation. So here's a different scenario (different from the procalcium scenario that others have suggested) for what may be happening in your case:
Interleukin-10 (IL-10 or IL10) is also known as human cytokine synthesis inhibitory factor (CSIF), and it's an anti-inflammatory cytokine. IOW, IL-10 is capable of inhibiting the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines such as IFN-γ, IL-2, IL-3, TNFα and GM-CSF. Vitamin D promotes the production of IL-10. Here's a reference on this benefit of vitamin D (note that the immune modifying agent in vitamin D is represented by 1α,25[OH]2D3 in the following quote:
IOW, IMO, the vitamin D that you are taking is helping to stabilize mast cells, thus suppressing your reactions and promoting Normans. If this is accurate, then the calcium is not only superfluous, but possibly working against the protection offered by vitamin D.
On the other hand, if you find that the calcium is essential (in combination with the vitamin D) for GI homeostasis, then apparently a balance of calcium and vitamin D is necessary in order to provide the mast cell stability that you have achieved. Were you taking a similar dose of vitamin D before you introduced the calcium supplement?
This is an interesting situation, and I don't believe we're run into it before, though as Zizzle pointed out, other members have mentioned in the past that they have found caltrate with vitamin D to be helpful.
Tex
You've described an interesting paradox, because calcium is necessary for the degranulation of mast cells, making it (in a sense) a proinflammatory element. What I mean by this is that calcium doesn't promote inflammation, per se, but it's essential to the normal progression of an inflammatory response. Vitamin D, on the other hand, helps to suppress inflammation. So here's a different scenario (different from the procalcium scenario that others have suggested) for what may be happening in your case:
Interleukin-10 (IL-10 or IL10) is also known as human cytokine synthesis inhibitory factor (CSIF), and it's an anti-inflammatory cytokine. IOW, IL-10 is capable of inhibiting the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines such as IFN-γ, IL-2, IL-3, TNFα and GM-CSF. Vitamin D promotes the production of IL-10. Here's a reference on this benefit of vitamin D (note that the immune modifying agent in vitamin D is represented by 1α,25[OH]2D3 in the following quote:
http://jem.rupress.org/content/207/3/455We now show that 1α,25(OH)2D3 can up-regulate IL-10 mRNA expression and induce IL-10 secretion in mouse mast cells in vitro.
IOW, IMO, the vitamin D that you are taking is helping to stabilize mast cells, thus suppressing your reactions and promoting Normans. If this is accurate, then the calcium is not only superfluous, but possibly working against the protection offered by vitamin D.
On the other hand, if you find that the calcium is essential (in combination with the vitamin D) for GI homeostasis, then apparently a balance of calcium and vitamin D is necessary in order to provide the mast cell stability that you have achieved. Were you taking a similar dose of vitamin D before you introduced the calcium supplement?
This is an interesting situation, and I don't believe we're run into it before, though as Zizzle pointed out, other members have mentioned in the past that they have found caltrate with vitamin D to be helpful.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Well, if you're curious about which supplement is actually responsible for the Normans, stopping one for a while should answer that question. If you don't care which one is responsible, then it's a moot point, because both are beneficial supplements, and the calcium won't do you much good without the vitamin D to help with the utilization of calcium.
Tex
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Oh my goodness, I need a emoticon with a little man running in circles with his hair on fire! So when is the best time to take vitamins? Morning? Noon? Night? With meals, without? Are any vitamins good to take at night, just before bed, since our digestion slows down while we sleep or do they assimilate better when we are up and moving during the day?
Color me confused
Mandy
Color me confused
Mandy
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Joefnh
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I'm not sure there is a best way, probably is, and I would think taking them with food might be a better way to insure absorption.
My question earlier about when you take the calcium was a thought that if the calcium was taken at or before meal time, would have the effect of reducing stomach acid during digestion as the food breaks down and enters the duodenum. With that said could a reduction in stomach acid be helping with the reduction of D?
This is probably more of a question for Tex, but I have heard from others several gimes now anecdotally that calcium supplements and Tums (also calcium) have helped them with D
My question earlier about when you take the calcium was a thought that if the calcium was taken at or before meal time, would have the effect of reducing stomach acid during digestion as the food breaks down and enters the duodenum. With that said could a reduction in stomach acid be helping with the reduction of D?
This is probably more of a question for Tex, but I have heard from others several gimes now anecdotally that calcium supplements and Tums (also calcium) have helped them with D
Joe
FWIW, I take my vitamins immediately after breakfast, but I don't take a calcium supplement (other than what's in a multivitamin).
Joe,
I'm not sure that calcium lowers stomach acid (though it might, for all I know), because that would lead to compromised digestion and compromised digestion can lead to D. Calcium does, however, lower the acidity of the colon, apparently by enhancing the absorption of bile acids, and I have a hunch that is why it helps to control D. As we've discussed before, malabsorption of bile salts in the terminal ileum is a common problem with MC, and it tends to promote D if the excess bile reaches the colon, because it normally wouldn't be there in significant amounts. (Normally, in a healthy gut, 90% of the bile salts are recycled in the terminal ilium). Here's a reference on research involving the use of calcium supplements to reduce bile acids in the colon:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/126/5/1421.full.pdf
Tex
Joe,
I'm not sure that calcium lowers stomach acid (though it might, for all I know), because that would lead to compromised digestion and compromised digestion can lead to D. Calcium does, however, lower the acidity of the colon, apparently by enhancing the absorption of bile acids, and I have a hunch that is why it helps to control D. As we've discussed before, malabsorption of bile salts in the terminal ileum is a common problem with MC, and it tends to promote D if the excess bile reaches the colon, because it normally wouldn't be there in significant amounts. (Normally, in a healthy gut, 90% of the bile salts are recycled in the terminal ilium). Here's a reference on research involving the use of calcium supplements to reduce bile acids in the colon:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/126/5/1421.full.pdf
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.