What a bunch of BS! for IBS

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Deanna in CO
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Post by Deanna in CO »

In general, I believe that any change from one's normal routine is a bit scary and takes courage. There is a proverb that states this "reluctance" very succinctly: "People don't change until the pain of changing becomes less than the pain of staying in the current situation." Perhaps unhealthy looking people we see in the super markets, loading their carts with "junk" are not in sufficient pain to be willing to assume the responsibility of doing something about it?


I think you're exactly right, Kari.

I know in my case, I put up with the D for a long time - maybe 10 years (if I remember right, so did you). It was only when it became intolerable that I finally decided I would do whatever it took, including severe diet restriction, to get better. And there are still some diet restrictions I'm not quite willing to undertake; I keep watching this board thinking, "I don't think I could ever get to the point of eating ONLY chicken soup with rice, as some here do."

There does seem to be another piece to it, though, and that's whether you actually believe it will work. I think there are many people out there who don't think it's possible that diet restriction could ultimately resolve the problem. And there are people like me, who at some point have tried some form of elimination diet for a week or two and thought, "It didn't work for me." We have to become convinced that the diet restrictions are going to work, or no amount of pain is going to cause us to make the necessary changes.

Thanks for the thoughts! :)

Deanna
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Post by JFR »

Deanna in CO wrote:
There does seem to be another piece to it, though, and that's whether you actually believe it will work. I think there are many people out there who don't think it's possible that diet restriction could ultimately resolve the problem. And there are people like me, who at some point have tried some form of elimination diet for a week or two and thought, "It didn't work for me." We have to become convinced that the diet restrictions are going to work, or no amount of pain is going to cause us to make the necessary changes.


Deanna


I agree Deanna. You have to believe that these diet restrictions are going to work. I believe that both Polly and Tex both stuck with severe dietary restrictions for months before their D stopped. It takes that kind of commitment and belief if you don't get immediate results. I feel like I am at the point where whatever it takes I will do. Now I get to see if that is true.

Jean
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Post by Kari »

Deanna,

Yes, your memory is correct - 10 years w/chronic D.. Even though I was told that diet had nothing to do with it, I felt the entire time that something I ate upset my system and caused the D., and I kept experimenting on my own. However, I never suspected bread - probably because it was my most beloved food - sigh. I was also holding out hope for the dangling carrot of "spontaneous remission". Like for you and Tex, it finally got so bad that I simply HAD TO do something about it.

I agree with you that we have to fully buy into the diet angle in order to embrace it. For me that was not difficult, since I saw improvement in number of BM's almost instantly after dropping gluten. I learned about gluten on the Enterolab web page, about a month and a half before finding the PP. I really want to believe that being "squeaky clean" when it comes to gluten and dairy, along with avoiding my many other known intolerances, I will eventually fully heal.

Love,
Kari
"My mouth waters whenever I pass a bakery shop and sniff the aroma of fresh bread, but I am also grateful simply to be alive and sniffing." Dr. Bernstein
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Deanna in CO
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Post by Deanna in CO »

Kari,

This whole process was much harder for me to believe in because I had tried diet restrictions before, including a week or so of a basic elimination diet, with no results. I know now, of course, that a week is nowhere near long enough. I also know that eliminating gluten without eliminating dairy, and vice versa, was useless for me.

I was fortunate enough to have built a friendship, over the past year or so, with a nutritionist who is finishing her doctorate in naturopathy. She started me on a GF, mostly DF diet, full of natural, healthy foods with nothing artificial and no preservatives or additives. It wasn't enough to heal the D, but it was a start in the right direction. I lost my lifelong acne problem and the migraines that were plaguing me once or twice a week. And my friend would not give up. She kept reading, studying, recommending supplements like vitamin B and L-Glutamine, and cheering me on. She got me through two full months before my diagnosis, before I found this forum - and when I did, she supported my continuing detective work. She's the one who kept me believing that a dietary approach was ultimately going to give me the answer - and if she hadn't, I'd have quit believing and quit on the diet.

Hang in there, Kari! I have to believe that if we keep working at it, we will eventually find the answers and heal. Anyway, this is the only hope we really seem to have, isn't it? It's not as if we have another option for really healing, you know?

Deanna

P.S. Would you like to meet sometime?
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Post by Leah »

This same way of thinking applies to my profession ( health and fitness). My clients have such emotional reasons for eating what they do. I have diabetics that still haven't changed their diets! I have clients that are suffering from joint pain and RA and when I suggest going gluten free for a while to see if they get some relief, they look at me like I was suggesting that they give up their children. I am convinced that the people on this forum who are taking control of their health are particularly strong people. I think we ALL have that in common :) Although I don't know you all as well as my friends and family here, I am so proud of the hard work you have all done. I'm in awe of every single one of you. Seriously.

Leah
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Post by Kari »

Hi Deanna,

Good for you that you have a friends who "gets it" and is a source of support for you. Having someone like that by your side goes a long way towards "lightening the burden".

Yes, meeting would be fun - without a doubt we'll have lots to talk about. Let's PM about place/time.

Love,
Kari
"My mouth waters whenever I pass a bakery shop and sniff the aroma of fresh bread, but I am also grateful simply to be alive and sniffing." Dr. Bernstein
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Zizzle
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Post by Zizzle »

Whoa, this new study suggests IBS patients have LESS mast cells, T- cells, etc than healthy volunteers. Can that be? :monkey:


Mucosal immune cell numbers and visceral sensitivity in patients with irritable bowel syndrome: is there any relationship?
Am J Gastroenterol. 2012; 107(5):715-26 (ISSN: 1572-0241)

Braak B; Klooker TK; Wouters MM; Welting O; van der Loos CM; Stanisor OI; van Diest S; van den Wijngaard RM; Boeckxstaens GE
1] Department of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, AMC, Amsterdam, The Netherlands [2] These authors participated equally and shared first authorship.


OBJECTIVES: Repeated exposure to stress leads to mast cell degranulation, microscopic inflammation, and subsequent visceral hypersensitivity in animal models. To what extent this pathophysiological pathway has a role in patients with the irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) has not been properly investigated. The objective of this study was to assess the relationship between visceral hypersensitivity, microscopic inflammation, and the stress response in IBS.

METHODS: Microscopic inflammation of the colonic mucosa was evaluated by immunohistochemistry in 66 IBS patients and 20 healthy volunteers (HV). Rectal sensitivity was assessed by a barostat study using an intermittent pressure-controlled distension protocol. Salivary cortisol to a psychological stress was measured to assess the stress response.

RESULTS: Compared with HV, mast cells, T cells, and macrophages were decreased in IBS patients. Similarly, λ-free light chain (FLC)-positive mast cells were decreased but not immunoglobulin E (IgE)- and IgG-positive mast cells. There were no differences between hypersensitive and normosensitive IBS patients. No relation was found between any of the immune cells studied and the thresholds of discomfort, urge, first sensation, or IBS symptoms (e.g., abdominal pain, stool-related complaints, bloating). Finally, stress-related symptoms and the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal-axis response to stress were not correlated with the number of mast cells or the presence of visceral hypersensitivity.

CONCLUSIONS: Although the number of mast cells, macrophages, T cells, and λFLC-positive mast cells is decreased in IBS compared with HV, this is not associated with the presence of visceral hypersensitivity or abnormal stress response. Our data question the role of microscopic inflammation as an underlying mechanism of visceral hypersensitivity, but rather suggest dysregulation of the mucosal immune system in IBS.
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tex
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Post by tex »

Their research results show exactly the opposite of what the research reported at the link below shows. Note that this study (done in Spain) was published in the same issue of the American Journal of Gastroenterology, but it makes a lot more sense.
Remarkably, our analysis disclosed significant correlation between ZO proteins, MC activation, and clinical symptoms.
MC stands for "mast cell" in that discussion.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22415197

Smoking pot is legal in Amsterdam, isn't it? LOL.

What's the difference between the two studies? The Amsterdam team studied the colon, whereas the Spanish team looked at the small intestine. Trust me, the colon is not the place to look for either lymphocyte activity or mast cell activity, especially in regard to diarrhea -- that takes place in the small intestine (where most intestinal mast cell activity is generated). Also, believe it or not, more than 60% of the entire body's supply of lymphocytes is concentrated in the small intestine. Clearly, those guys are not even aware of those simple facts.

The study done by the Amsterdam team illustrates the biggest problem with doctors and medical researchers, regarding digestive system diseases -- those guys don't understand these diseases well enough to even research them correctly. So it's not surprising that they don't know how to treat them correctly. :lol:

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Zizzle
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Post by Zizzle »

Thanks Tex. This study also verifies your conclusion.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17005763
RESULTS: D-IBS patients showed higher psychological stress than healthy volunteers (D-IBS: 203 (SD 114) v H: 112 (SD 99); p = 0.019). Immunohistochemical staining of jejunal mucosa revealed mild increase in intraepithelial CD3+ cells in D-IBS patients (D-IBS: 15.3 (SD 5.5; 95% CI 12.7 to 17.9) v H: 10.3 (SD 3.9; 95% CI 8.0 to 12.5); p = 0.006). Moreover, D-IBS patients showed marked increase in mast cells numbers (D-IBS: 34 (SD 9.3); H: 15.3 (SD 4.4) mast cells/hpf; p<0.001) and higher tryptase concentration in jejunal fluid (D-IBS: 0.45 (SD 0.38); H: 0.09 (SD 0.10) microg/l; p = 0.005). Upper gut symptoms were not associated with gender, mast cell counts, jejunal tryptase or basal stress.
But check out their conclusion!! :shock:
CONCLUSION: This jejunal mucosal inflammatory profile may help identify diarrhoea-predominant IBS, a stress-related disorder.
What the heck?? All those organic differences, and they still chalk it up to a "stress-related disorder"? :shock: :roll:
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tex
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Post by tex »

IBS has always been described as a stress-related disorder. Hasn't it? Traditions are hard to break in the medical world.

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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