For the record, many people have mono and never know it, if they don't get a "knock you flat" case. I was talking with some friends recently--one had a teenage daughter with a bad case of mono. Another, a nurse, mentioned that some of us never get that sick, so we never go to the doctor and get tested. Her son had a blood test in his 20's and discovered he had mono antibodies, even though he had never been diagnosed as having mono. For those of us who spent most of our growing up years as "sickly kids," always fighting some cold or virus or allergies (that's what mine was always blamed on), we may just never have gotten that positive diagnosis.
I am very interested in the possible connection between Type II diabetes and other autoimmune disorders. I know that Type I is attributed to viral activity, but I was reading one of the articles Zizzle referenced and was surprised to see Type II included as well. The diabetes and chronic GI problems are all on my dad's side of the family. Around the same time my dad's blood sugar started to go haywire (in his 30's), he also had a barium test, which concluded that he had a spastic colon. I assume that he was dealing with significant GI issues by that time if he had the test done. And yet I still can't convince anyone in my family to be tested for a gluten intolerance. I can't help feeling this all fits together somehow...
EPSTEIN-BARR VIRUS in MC and AUTOIMMUNITY!!
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
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draperygoddess
- Rockhopper Penguin
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- Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:49 am
- Location: Tennessee
If you haven't read Joe's post in the "mono" survey, you should! 
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16370
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16370
WHoa! Check out the discussion section of this case report. Marliss, this could have true implications for your daughter!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1949255/
Crud.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1949255/
The direct detection of EBV in blood or lymphoid tissues is a research tool and is not available for routine diagnosis.
Crud.Epstein-Barr virus infection can trigger autoimmune hepatitis in susceptible individuals.
•Epstein-Barr virus infection is associated with hepatocellular hepatitis. The frequency is estimated to be 10% in young adults and 30% in the elderly.
•This hepatocellular hepatitis is usually mild and resolves spontaneously.
This is why so many people have no idea they had it.In primary care, particularly when there is a high level of viral upper-respiratory infections or group A streptococcal pharyngitis in the community, diagnosis of mild EBV infection is difficult if not impossible. Diagnosis requires a high level of suspicion and supporting of laboratory data.
My DD had this rash after her first dose of penicillin for strep throat, and has proceeded to react to other antibiotics as well!
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Joefnh
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Jenny they can easily test for the level of EBV titres in your blood which would be an indicator of actively of that virus. The test can be faulty so lower level borderline readings may not be a great indicator.
The symptoms would usually be fatigue associated with fever, aches in the joints and the throat. Most likely at this point you already have been exposed and have developed antibodies without any or little noticeable symptoms. In cases of chronic activation the titres would be chronically high coupled with the symptoms.
The symptoms would usually be fatigue associated with fever, aches in the joints and the throat. Most likely at this point you already have been exposed and have developed antibodies without any or little noticeable symptoms. In cases of chronic activation the titres would be chronically high coupled with the symptoms.
Joe
I would argue that fever and thoat pain are the expected symptoms, but it seems medicine has only been looking at the obvious symptoms. If EBV is activated in your GI tract or liver, causing inflammation, do you get a sore throat? I don't think so. Just like gluten can cause only neurological issues, only GI issues, etc, each individual's symptoms will depend on where the infection decides to reactivate.
My friend had high titers of EBV and CMV last year (which often hang out together), and had classic symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome. She got better over time, but then developed Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and raging gluten intolerance this year, and she's beginning to wonder if she has MC. Does that mean her EBV went into hibernation? Or did it move on to a new part of her body?
My friend had high titers of EBV and CMV last year (which often hang out together), and had classic symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome. She got better over time, but then developed Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and raging gluten intolerance this year, and she's beginning to wonder if she has MC. Does that mean her EBV went into hibernation? Or did it move on to a new part of her body?
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Joefnh
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That's a good point Zizzle, the virus EBV and I'm sure many others are present throughout all of our bodies in a dormant state. A virus is opportunistic in nature, it will look for the weak spots in our bodies defenses for an opportunity to manifest itself. Whether its the GI tract or throat or thyroid....they are all targets of opportunity so to speak for a virus.
This would make the symtoms variable and unique per individual and per event, meaning the same virus working alone or with other viruses could cause varying symtoms depending on the area of the body they can break through the defenses in.
This would make the symtoms variable and unique per individual and per event, meaning the same virus working alone or with other viruses could cause varying symtoms depending on the area of the body they can break through the defenses in.
Joe
Zizzle,
Before you stamp everyone's medical issues "Case Closed", keep in mind that EBV infects a majority of the world's adult population. As Joe mentioned, it's a very opportunistic virus, so it's naturally going seek out vulnerable areas of the body. Remember that with opportunistic pathogens, just because they are present does not mean that they contribute to the pathogenicity (is that a word?). IOW, they may be like a voyeur who enjoys being on hand at a major fire, but that doesn't mean that they struck the match that started the fire.
Tex
Before you stamp everyone's medical issues "Case Closed", keep in mind that EBV infects a majority of the world's adult population. As Joe mentioned, it's a very opportunistic virus, so it's naturally going seek out vulnerable areas of the body. Remember that with opportunistic pathogens, just because they are present does not mean that they contribute to the pathogenicity (is that a word?). IOW, they may be like a voyeur who enjoys being on hand at a major fire, but that doesn't mean that they struck the match that started the fire.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
LOLBefore you stamp everyone's medical issues "Case Closed"
I know.BUT, I did argue that genetic susceptibility must be there. So for all of us with messed up immune genes on Chromosome 6 (celiac or whatever), maybe EBV attacks particular areas of weakness, and triggers particular genes. Of course this is all multifactorial, but, since we've been looking for a microbial scapegoat for some time...I propose we have one with good evidence. Lyme, mycoplasma, and others may cause similar trouble, but there is less evidence tying them to inflammed GI mucosa and the constellation of symptoms that constitute MC.
The question for me now is, is EBV simply the trigger, the chicken that came before the egg? Or is it involved/replicating during every flare?
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Gabes-Apg
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Awesome work!
via the kinesiology, it identified that it was the whooping cough, when i was age 7 was what first 'tainted my immune system' and EB also came up ( i had it after one of my bowel surgeries)
I think any combo of these types of conditions will cause the toxic inflammation that then damages the gut, throw in a chronic trigger and wammo you have an explosion
(chronic trigger being the ignition point, major stress event, major chemical change in the body (hormone), major gut infection treated with antiobiotics etc)
it is almost 30 years ago that my dad died of cancer. Back then they had the theory that everyone has cells in their body that cancer can grow, it just depends if you have the fuel and the ignition for the cancer cells to grow (like fire, you need oxygen, fuel and ignition)
similarily, if we have the pre disposed genes, and we have enough fuel (viral infections, various meds and drugs etc) and ignition (what triggers the chronic symptoms) then you get the IBD.
via the kinesiology, it identified that it was the whooping cough, when i was age 7 was what first 'tainted my immune system' and EB also came up ( i had it after one of my bowel surgeries)
I think any combo of these types of conditions will cause the toxic inflammation that then damages the gut, throw in a chronic trigger and wammo you have an explosion
(chronic trigger being the ignition point, major stress event, major chemical change in the body (hormone), major gut infection treated with antiobiotics etc)
it is almost 30 years ago that my dad died of cancer. Back then they had the theory that everyone has cells in their body that cancer can grow, it just depends if you have the fuel and the ignition for the cancer cells to grow (like fire, you need oxygen, fuel and ignition)
similarily, if we have the pre disposed genes, and we have enough fuel (viral infections, various meds and drugs etc) and ignition (what triggers the chronic symptoms) then you get the IBD.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
I had forgotten that not only did I have mononucleosis, but my daughter with "IBS" also had it when she was a freshman in high school. Her older sister never had it, as far as I know, and she doesn't have any digestive problems.
When I was a freshman in college, it seemed like half the coeds on my dorm floor got mono and had to leave school. I didn't get it then, but did a few years later when I returned to school. I got it while I was dating my husband. He said his high school girlfriend had it when he was dating her, too. Hmmm. Was he a carrier who gave it to me? Can I blame my MC on him? Such a delicious thought! That's why we're in this together!
This is very fascinating. It's interesting that the majority of the population seems to have had it, though most don't know they have. Could this be the smoking gun explanation for why IBDs seem to be on the rise?
Gloria
When I was a freshman in college, it seemed like half the coeds on my dorm floor got mono and had to leave school. I didn't get it then, but did a few years later when I returned to school. I got it while I was dating my husband. He said his high school girlfriend had it when he was dating her, too. Hmmm. Was he a carrier who gave it to me? Can I blame my MC on him? Such a delicious thought! That's why we're in this together!
This is very fascinating. It's interesting that the majority of the population seems to have had it, though most don't know they have. Could this be the smoking gun explanation for why IBDs seem to be on the rise?
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Happy Father's Day to all!
I also find it all quite interesting. I had my three severe viral illness at ages 9 and 21 (strep) and again about 7 years ago. I had strep throughout high school as well as constant canker sores until I was 42 years old and had a hysterectomy due to endometriosis. Furthermore, I had the herpes virus in my eye three times starting at 6 years old. I have been told that it lies domant and will travel, at any time, along the nerve only to my right eye.
My 17 year old daughter has been hospitalized twice with viral infections. The doctors couldn't identify the first virus about three years ago, but she was hospitalized for six days. This past fall, she had mono. She recovered, apparently, quickly. She has had two colonoscopies though for stomach issues and has been diagnosed as lactose intolerant. She feels much better now that she is DF, and I'm going to have her tested next.
My maternal grandfather had rheumatic fever as a child which damaged his heart; his valve was replaced years later. My maternal grandmother had diverticulosis. My father was adopted. Everyone in my family suffers from canker sores, my father has major GI troubles, and my mother has severe arthritis. Most or all of my family members for the four generations that I know about are are affected. The strep syndrome concept is intriguing.
Thanks for all of the research and postings!
I also find it all quite interesting. I had my three severe viral illness at ages 9 and 21 (strep) and again about 7 years ago. I had strep throughout high school as well as constant canker sores until I was 42 years old and had a hysterectomy due to endometriosis. Furthermore, I had the herpes virus in my eye three times starting at 6 years old. I have been told that it lies domant and will travel, at any time, along the nerve only to my right eye.
My 17 year old daughter has been hospitalized twice with viral infections. The doctors couldn't identify the first virus about three years ago, but she was hospitalized for six days. This past fall, she had mono. She recovered, apparently, quickly. She has had two colonoscopies though for stomach issues and has been diagnosed as lactose intolerant. She feels much better now that she is DF, and I'm going to have her tested next.
My maternal grandfather had rheumatic fever as a child which damaged his heart; his valve was replaced years later. My maternal grandmother had diverticulosis. My father was adopted. Everyone in my family suffers from canker sores, my father has major GI troubles, and my mother has severe arthritis. Most or all of my family members for the four generations that I know about are are affected. The strep syndrome concept is intriguing.
Thanks for all of the research and postings!
Anti Smooth Muscle was my only positive autoimmune antibody - tested positive after 6-7 years of gut symptoms. Epstein Barr was mentioned as a possible cause of my problems. I know I have pretty bad motility issues.Zizzle wrote:And in research dating back to 1984 (2 years before I got mono!), they discovered that the Epstein Barr virus can cause the body to create autoantibodies to smooth muscle (my highest one!), thyroid, stomach, pancreas and nerves! Smooth muscle antibody is mostly indicated in autoimmune hepatitis, a disease that commonly affects young women, probably after they had MONO!!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 8-0426.pdf
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MBombardier
- Rockhopper Penguin
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- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:44 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA
I have finally taken the time to go through and read all the stuff on this thread and the mono poll thread. I sent the info on EBV possibly instigating AIH in susceptible individuals to my daughter. I hope she will get the blood work done. Not that it would change treatment, but it would be good to know.
More and more I suspect that my recalcitrant strep infection when I was 19 was actually EBV. If I recall correctly, it was treated with IV penicillin and I got a non-itchy rash. The treatment was then switched to erythromycin. Before I went to work for Beecham Laboratories, which developed amoxicillin and was a major manufacturer of it, I had to be tested for allergy to penicillin because of that rash. I had no reaction to the shot, so obviously I was not allergic to penicillin, and now I think I never really was.
More and more I suspect that my recalcitrant strep infection when I was 19 was actually EBV. If I recall correctly, it was treated with IV penicillin and I got a non-itchy rash. The treatment was then switched to erythromycin. Before I went to work for Beecham Laboratories, which developed amoxicillin and was a major manufacturer of it, I had to be tested for allergy to penicillin because of that rash. I had no reaction to the shot, so obviously I was not allergic to penicillin, and now I think I never really was.
Marliss Bombardier
Dum spiro, spero -- While I breathe, I hope
Psoriasis - the dark ages
Hashimoto's Thyroiditis - Dec 2001
Collagenous Colitis - Sept 2010
Granuloma Annulare - June 2011
Dum spiro, spero -- While I breathe, I hope
Psoriasis - the dark ages
Hashimoto's Thyroiditis - Dec 2001
Collagenous Colitis - Sept 2010
Granuloma Annulare - June 2011
I have never been diagnosed with mono. I once quipped it is the only illness that never got me because I had some weird ones.
Started with polio at age 3. I was sort of sick all my childhood. I had tonsillitis so many times they ended up removing them when I was 7. At 9 I had my appendix removed and had a serious infection as a result.
Through my teen years I was constantly sick, but never anything "serious".
At 19 I was horribly ill, they cut me open and saw my bowel was TOTALLY impacted. The docs, who hadn't diagnosed it in spite of weeks in hospital, told my parents "it's nothing. She's just constipated"!!!!! From then on I knew I had a problem and had to struggle to have BMs.
I had hard pregnancies (7, with 3 live births, all very complicated, with kidney infections and the like), over the years I contracted typhus, hep C (husband had transfusions for open heart surgery with infected blood. No one knows how I got it). And so on and so forth till I got hurt on the job, and developed something that appeared exactly like lupus, but I had negative ANA, so once again, they had know idea what it was. That was in 2003, and since then I have been sick and sicker, right up to the MC dx. Who the heck knows what is going on in my blood?
Started with polio at age 3. I was sort of sick all my childhood. I had tonsillitis so many times they ended up removing them when I was 7. At 9 I had my appendix removed and had a serious infection as a result.
Through my teen years I was constantly sick, but never anything "serious".
At 19 I was horribly ill, they cut me open and saw my bowel was TOTALLY impacted. The docs, who hadn't diagnosed it in spite of weeks in hospital, told my parents "it's nothing. She's just constipated"!!!!! From then on I knew I had a problem and had to struggle to have BMs.
I had hard pregnancies (7, with 3 live births, all very complicated, with kidney infections and the like), over the years I contracted typhus, hep C (husband had transfusions for open heart surgery with infected blood. No one knows how I got it). And so on and so forth till I got hurt on the job, and developed something that appeared exactly like lupus, but I had negative ANA, so once again, they had know idea what it was. That was in 2003, and since then I have been sick and sicker, right up to the MC dx. Who the heck knows what is going on in my blood?