Hi all. First I'd like to say I think I am off the Budesonide! The antihistamine was the final key to me having normans. My question to you is do I have to take one every day or do I just take one when I am getting the regular allergy type symptoms? Or if my BMs start getting loose again?
.... and i just ordered Tex's book :)
Leah
antihistamines
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
-
mzh
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:03 pm
- Location: Upstate South Carolina
- Contact:
I asked the same question a few days ago and got no response so I'm with Leah on this post. Please help us! 
I'm guessing you need to take it when you eat, especially if you know the food is high-histamine. But how many times a day is the question.... And what dose? And H1 or H2 or a mix?
An aside: I'm trying Histame at every meal; just started it so it's too soon to tell anything. It's not an anti-histamine though.
I'm guessing you need to take it when you eat, especially if you know the food is high-histamine. But how many times a day is the question.... And what dose? And H1 or H2 or a mix?
An aside: I'm trying Histame at every meal; just started it so it's too soon to tell anything. It's not an anti-histamine though.
Also have sleep apnea
Hi Marcia and Leah,
This is all still in the experimental stage, so you have to remember that anything I say here will be mostly guesswork based on member experiences and personal research, (certainly none of it is chiseled in stone).
I view the use of antihistamines to treat MC as an OTC substitute for the use of a prescription anti-inflammatory drug, or as a supplement to an anti-inflammatory drug, when control is elusive. It probably won't work in all cases (just as no prescription drug works in all cases), but IMO there is a possibility that history may prove the use of antihistamines to be basically as effective as the use of a corticosteroid (again, in some cases).
Antihistamines should be dosed according to the label directions. (IOW, a 24-hour antihistamine should be taken no more often than once per 24 hours, whereas a 12-hour antihistamine should be used no more often than twice a day, etc. Taking them before a major meal may be more effective, but the strength of the formulation has to be considered. Since this serves as a replacement for a corticosteroid, then (similar to using a corticosteroid) the dosing should be determined according to your response. If you are replacing a budesonide treatment of 3mg every other day, for example, then you may be able to get by with a lowered dosage rate of antihistamine (or maybe not, depending on your response).
IMO, we are usually better off trying an H1 antihistamine first, to see if that provides control. If that doesn't work, then an H2 anthistamine can be tried, but remember that unlike H1 antihistamines, H2 antihistamines attach to histamine receptors in the stomach and intestines, so they will tend to suppress stomach acid, and for some of us, they can trigger the symptoms of MC.
While H1 antihistamines are traditionally used to treat classic allergy symptoms, if you are taking them to treat MC, it's a somewhat different ballgame. If you're using them to treat MC, then you may need to use them even in the absence of upper respiratory symptoms. The risk, of course, as already noted by Gloria and others, is that taking them regularly may cause them to lose effectiveness. Perhaps rotating brands might help to avoid developing a tolerance for them, or maybe rotating H1 with H2 antihistamines might help to prevent a loss of effectiveness over time. These are uncharted waters.
The logic behind all this, as I discuss in the book, is based on my theory that the inflammation that causes MC is primarily related to mast cell activation — the T cell infiltration that's associated with MC and celiac disease is secondary to the mast cell degranulation (IMO). Remember that this is just a theory, though, and it hasn't been proven by scientific research.
Polly may have some better insight into this, and she may be able to make some better suggestions.
Tex
This is all still in the experimental stage, so you have to remember that anything I say here will be mostly guesswork based on member experiences and personal research, (certainly none of it is chiseled in stone).
I view the use of antihistamines to treat MC as an OTC substitute for the use of a prescription anti-inflammatory drug, or as a supplement to an anti-inflammatory drug, when control is elusive. It probably won't work in all cases (just as no prescription drug works in all cases), but IMO there is a possibility that history may prove the use of antihistamines to be basically as effective as the use of a corticosteroid (again, in some cases).
Antihistamines should be dosed according to the label directions. (IOW, a 24-hour antihistamine should be taken no more often than once per 24 hours, whereas a 12-hour antihistamine should be used no more often than twice a day, etc. Taking them before a major meal may be more effective, but the strength of the formulation has to be considered. Since this serves as a replacement for a corticosteroid, then (similar to using a corticosteroid) the dosing should be determined according to your response. If you are replacing a budesonide treatment of 3mg every other day, for example, then you may be able to get by with a lowered dosage rate of antihistamine (or maybe not, depending on your response).
IMO, we are usually better off trying an H1 antihistamine first, to see if that provides control. If that doesn't work, then an H2 anthistamine can be tried, but remember that unlike H1 antihistamines, H2 antihistamines attach to histamine receptors in the stomach and intestines, so they will tend to suppress stomach acid, and for some of us, they can trigger the symptoms of MC.
While H1 antihistamines are traditionally used to treat classic allergy symptoms, if you are taking them to treat MC, it's a somewhat different ballgame. If you're using them to treat MC, then you may need to use them even in the absence of upper respiratory symptoms. The risk, of course, as already noted by Gloria and others, is that taking them regularly may cause them to lose effectiveness. Perhaps rotating brands might help to avoid developing a tolerance for them, or maybe rotating H1 with H2 antihistamines might help to prevent a loss of effectiveness over time. These are uncharted waters.
The logic behind all this, as I discuss in the book, is based on my theory that the inflammation that causes MC is primarily related to mast cell activation — the T cell infiltration that's associated with MC and celiac disease is secondary to the mast cell degranulation (IMO). Remember that this is just a theory, though, and it hasn't been proven by scientific research.
Polly may have some better insight into this, and she may be able to make some better suggestions.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Leah,
I saw your other question and probably can't really answer it but can report what I felt after getting off of Entocort. Throughout this disease I was probably of a small percent in which mast cells was not a problem.
I DID however experience the "mast cell rebound effect" that Tex has talked about when I got off of Entocort. I wished I had logged exactly what days this occurred but at the time I didn't really know what the runny nose thing was. I'm guessing around week 3 after my last Entocort I experienced the runny nose thing after eating fish, tomatoes, etc. This was the first time I had experienced any histamine responses.
I experienced heightened mast cell activity for about a two week period.
I know I didn't really answer your question but just wanted to alert you to the possibility of heightened mast cell activity in the weeks after you get off of Entorcort so you can be prepared for it.
Great news on your nutrition class/certificate! Brandy
I saw your other question and probably can't really answer it but can report what I felt after getting off of Entocort. Throughout this disease I was probably of a small percent in which mast cells was not a problem.
I DID however experience the "mast cell rebound effect" that Tex has talked about when I got off of Entocort. I wished I had logged exactly what days this occurred but at the time I didn't really know what the runny nose thing was. I'm guessing around week 3 after my last Entocort I experienced the runny nose thing after eating fish, tomatoes, etc. This was the first time I had experienced any histamine responses.
I experienced heightened mast cell activity for about a two week period.
I know I didn't really answer your question but just wanted to alert you to the possibility of heightened mast cell activity in the weeks after you get off of Entorcort so you can be prepared for it.
Great news on your nutrition class/certificate! Brandy
that you will continue to remain in remission.
antihistamine
I have been taking 1 zyzal a day and normans for nearly a month, unlike before when I got down to 1 every other day, currently just started 1 every 2 days, I am hypersensitive to mosquito bites, can end up hospitalised, and have to take zyzal for months and havent noticed any ill effects, having said that its far from 100 percent effective on the bites!!!!cant handle zantac gives me bad heartburn and a flushed face with bloodshot eyes, not too good looking! so hoping the zyzal contiues to keep working, Beni
Tex and all,
Your theory sounds quite plausible to me. Check out my latest post about my own experiment with an H1 antihistamine. And I am proof that this works in one who has never had respiratory or skin allergies. (You might recall that I had sinus issues several years ago - caused solely by a botched dental implant procedure, not by allergies........no history of allergic rhinitis, asthma, etc. No further problems once I had the 2 sinus surgeries).
Some other thoughts...........for those in whom it works, an antihistamine actually treats a root cause of the disease - it helps to prevent the effects of mast cell degranulation, which results in reduced inflammation of the gut. Entocort, on the other hand, is only suppressing the resulting inflammation - it has no effect on the actual disease process. As we know, steroids are used to reduce inflammation in all kinds of diseases.
I suspect that my numbers of mast cells on biopsy would be normal; however, I'll bet I have overly reactive mast cells. And in me, they are especially reactive to stress - I have always talked about how any stress immediately gives me D - ever since I was a little kid.
Love,
Polly
Your theory sounds quite plausible to me. Check out my latest post about my own experiment with an H1 antihistamine. And I am proof that this works in one who has never had respiratory or skin allergies. (You might recall that I had sinus issues several years ago - caused solely by a botched dental implant procedure, not by allergies........no history of allergic rhinitis, asthma, etc. No further problems once I had the 2 sinus surgeries).
Some other thoughts...........for those in whom it works, an antihistamine actually treats a root cause of the disease - it helps to prevent the effects of mast cell degranulation, which results in reduced inflammation of the gut. Entocort, on the other hand, is only suppressing the resulting inflammation - it has no effect on the actual disease process. As we know, steroids are used to reduce inflammation in all kinds of diseases.
I suspect that my numbers of mast cells on biopsy would be normal; however, I'll bet I have overly reactive mast cells. And in me, they are especially reactive to stress - I have always talked about how any stress immediately gives me D - ever since I was a little kid.
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Polly,
To add to this, I totally agree that no classic allergy symptoms are necessary in order for mast cells to be a contributing factor that helps to generate the inflammation that causes MC. On the other hand, I believe it's also true that classic allergy reactions can contribute to D associated with MC. For about a week now, the ragweed and chenopods have been releasing pollen at a steadily increasing rate in my part of the world. I have noticed that during that same time frame, I have begun to have some D, and it seems to be on the increase.
The classic upper respiratory system symptoms only began to be noticeable late yesterday. This suggests to me that the gut is more sensitive to histamine levels than the rest of the body, which I find to be a rather interesting observation. I took a 24-hour Allegra this morning, to see what that might do
Love,
Tex
To add to this, I totally agree that no classic allergy symptoms are necessary in order for mast cells to be a contributing factor that helps to generate the inflammation that causes MC. On the other hand, I believe it's also true that classic allergy reactions can contribute to D associated with MC. For about a week now, the ragweed and chenopods have been releasing pollen at a steadily increasing rate in my part of the world. I have noticed that during that same time frame, I have begun to have some D, and it seems to be on the increase.
The classic upper respiratory system symptoms only began to be noticeable late yesterday. This suggests to me that the gut is more sensitive to histamine levels than the rest of the body, which I find to be a rather interesting observation. I took a 24-hour Allegra this morning, to see what that might do
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
-
mzh
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:03 pm
- Location: Upstate South Carolina
- Contact:
Polly, the stress D "ever since" describes me to a "T". (For T cells? LOL) I was also dxd with allergic rhinitis when I was 6 years old. It's mostly gone but last night I had sniffles after eating corn spaghetti with clam sauce. Never noticed that before but time will tell. I had a Histame with dinner too but maybe it should be taken before dinner, not with.Polly wrote:Tex and all,
I suspect that my numbers of mast cells on biopsy would be normal; however, I'll bet I have overly reactive mast cells. And in me, they are especially reactive to stress - I have always talked about how any stress immediately gives me D - ever since I was a little kid.
Love,
Polly
Also have sleep apnea