First time in a long time I have had an accident that got through to my clothes. Luckily I am at home, and could clean up.
Why? Maybe it's time for plain mashed potatoes again?
Back to the drawing board!
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Lesley
why is the world so cruel and harsh to your digestion system???...... my heart goes out to you
have you done, eaten, used anything different at all?? different soap, or touched a new plant or ??? starting using a different batch of a supplement or ingredient or any other really remote alien situation???
You have far more patience and tenancity than me!
hope you get some answers and happy digestion system soon
why is the world so cruel and harsh to your digestion system???...... my heart goes out to you
have you done, eaten, used anything different at all?? different soap, or touched a new plant or ??? starting using a different batch of a supplement or ingredient or any other really remote alien situation???
You have far more patience and tenancity than me!
hope you get some answers and happy digestion system soon
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
MaggieRedwings
- King Penguin
- Posts: 3865
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:16 am
- Location: SE Pennsylvania
Lesley you seem to be where I was back in the day. It was a long struggle for me to finally get somewhat better and I am still trying at times to figure out "what I ate" to get D. It will come together and I surely wish you better days.
Love, Maggie
Love, Maggie
Maggie Scarpone
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
Dear Lesley,
Sorry to hear of your latest setback. Sometimes MC is the cruelest game of snakes and ladders. Can you eat nightshades? Potato is not a problem for many but it is to some (including me).
Wishing you all the best, Ant
Sorry to hear of your latest setback. Sometimes MC is the cruelest game of snakes and ladders. Can you eat nightshades? Potato is not a problem for many but it is to some (including me).
Wishing you all the best, Ant
----------------------------------------
"Softly, softly catchee monkey".....
"Softly, softly catchee monkey".....
So sorry Leslie! And Marion..... Hey Marion, many of us have had some shockingly good results with taking an antihistamine ( Claitin, allegra). Have you tried that yet? Have you gone the Immodium route ? ... maybe a combination of both? Don't give up. Keep trying to figure this thing out. The answer for you has to be out there. I'm so sorry that both of you are suffering :(
Leah
Leah
Hi Leah,
I think because of high blood pressure I'm not really allowed to play with antihistamines. Along with the CC I have Brunner's Gland hyperplasia. I think that means that I produce too much acid. Maybe Tex has heard about that. No one has really talked to me about that. Why wasn't it even mentioned in the GI consult. Seems like it should have some signifigance. A Google search on that leads to some very scary reports and surgeries. One from 1984 says that cimetidine cured the diarrhea that a woman had from Brunner's gland hyperplasia. That was the one positive one. I have a Rx for Ranitidine (which is in the same class of drugs as cimetidine), and have resumed it for just the past 3 days. At least I am not getting the horrible all afternoon abdominal pain. Still have the watery D every day. It is discouraging.
What does one do when they produce too much acid, and the drugs that cure that are contraindicated for CC? Tex, help me out here!
The next two weeks there is far too much going on to concentrate on my diet and drugs. My husband has ripped out all of the ancient ceiling tiles on the 2nd floor of the house. It is a work in progres putting up new. It needs to be done before Sept. 10 when I have a guest coming. Need to create a guestroom (with a ceiling). Sept 12-16 we will be babysitting for two grandchildren. Their eating habits are horrible --- pizza, mac & cheese, ice cream, and applesauce come to mind as their top favorites.
Maybe by Sept 17 I can get back to some sort of Paleo diet. Maybe I should try Immodium again. It has been about 8 or 9 years since I tried it.
NOTHING ELSE WAS WORKING --- NOT EVEN ENTOCORT! I'm a mess!
Marion
I think because of high blood pressure I'm not really allowed to play with antihistamines. Along with the CC I have Brunner's Gland hyperplasia. I think that means that I produce too much acid. Maybe Tex has heard about that. No one has really talked to me about that. Why wasn't it even mentioned in the GI consult. Seems like it should have some signifigance. A Google search on that leads to some very scary reports and surgeries. One from 1984 says that cimetidine cured the diarrhea that a woman had from Brunner's gland hyperplasia. That was the one positive one. I have a Rx for Ranitidine (which is in the same class of drugs as cimetidine), and have resumed it for just the past 3 days. At least I am not getting the horrible all afternoon abdominal pain. Still have the watery D every day. It is discouraging.
What does one do when they produce too much acid, and the drugs that cure that are contraindicated for CC? Tex, help me out here!
The next two weeks there is far too much going on to concentrate on my diet and drugs. My husband has ripped out all of the ancient ceiling tiles on the 2nd floor of the house. It is a work in progres putting up new. It needs to be done before Sept. 10 when I have a guest coming. Need to create a guestroom (with a ceiling). Sept 12-16 we will be babysitting for two grandchildren. Their eating habits are horrible --- pizza, mac & cheese, ice cream, and applesauce come to mind as their top favorites.
Maybe by Sept 17 I can get back to some sort of Paleo diet. Maybe I should try Immodium again. It has been about 8 or 9 years since I tried it.
NOTHING ELSE WAS WORKING --- NOT EVEN ENTOCORT! I'm a mess!
Marion
I had to look up Brunner's gland hyperplasia, but I would guess that your GI specialist didn't feel the need to discuss it because that condition is benign by definition. That's still bad bedside manner (not discussing it with you), because IMO any findings should be discussed to ensure that the patient and doctor are on the same page. If the Brunner's gland hyperplasia is a typical configuration, it probably isn't directly affecting your MC issues, though the reason why it exists in the first place might be connected with the cause of the D.Marion wrote:What does one do when they produce too much acid, and the drugs that cure that are contraindicated for CC? Tex, help me out here!
I'm surprised that the ranitidine hasn't been more beneficial, because it's more potent than cimetidine, and it should have fewer side effects. Zantac is a lower-dose version of ranitidine, available OTC, of course, and I would have suggested trying it, if you weren't already trying the prescription dose. Ranitidine works by blocking the H2 receptors in the stomach so that histamine can't attach to them, and the result, of course, is significantly decreased acid production.
Are you taking BP meds? If so, you might need to ask your doctor about alternate choices, because for some of us, beta blockers and ace inhibitors can trigger an MC reaction. So can statins.
Do you monitor your BP regularly? If you do, then you can easily keep an eye on any effects that any antihistamine might have. If not, it shouldn't have a huge effect, but we're all different in our response to drugs, of course.
If an H2 antihistamine (such as ranitidine) doesn't make enough of a dent in acid production, the next step would be a PPI, but PPIs are notorious for triggering MC for some people, and when they're discontinued, they cause a rebound effect that results in even higher acid production rates than previously, plus the fact that the rebound effect can cause GERD (the very issue that they are prescribed to prevent).
Theoretically, the ranitidine has a relatively low risk of triggering MC symptoms for most people, and it's far safer than taking a PPI. I agree with Leah — Imodium seems to be one of the safest drugs (least risk of side effects) of just about any drug on the market, so it shouldn't hurt to take it. Some people find it very helpful; some don't. Even when it doesn't eliminate the D, it can help to reduce the urgency, and that's a huge advantage sometimes. The odds are pretty slim that taking it will lead to constipation in your case, but in the event that it does, you would need to lower the dose, obviously.
Some of us find H1 type antihistamines to be beneficial for MC symptoms, either instead of an H2 antihistamine or in addition to one, but as you say, taking more than one could lead to BP issues. It seems that nothing is ever easy with this disease.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Marion,
I am so sorry you are having so much pain and trouble. As to Brunner's gland hyperplasia, I have never heard of it, and there is not much info that I can find. However, in the little I found nothing is said about production of acid. Maybe Polly and/or Tex can weigh in and explain it?
Ant,
I can eat nightshades. In fact potatoes are the vegetable I tolerate best. I don't seem to have a problem with tomatoes, I am glad to say. I have grown a great crop of tomatoes on my balcony and they are affording me a great deal of pleasure, both visually and flavor wise. I have given many to neighbors, made some tomato sauce and even eaten some.
Maggie,
I go back and forth all the time, but a really bad accident with no forewarning at all is something I haven't had for a long time. When D comes the cramps are pretty bad and the storm is over fairly soon, but then I have to deal with horrible C. So far I have not had a day free of one or the other. The first day or 2 of C I am relatively comfortable. Then the C goes on and on...
Gabes,
You are my model for patience, tenacity and, best of all, a wonderful attitude!
You know what? It's called no choice! If there was one I would have made it long ago!
Apart from the D <-> C cycle I battle with I am still really struggling with GERD. I have to take Nexium. Without it I am in agony. What it's doing to my MC is anybody's guess. I try to take as little as possible, but if I put it off too long the repercussions are enormous.
And, with all this, the exhaustion is often overwhelming. You know the feeling.
Oh well...
Thanks all for your support. I don't know what I would do without it!
I am so sorry you are having so much pain and trouble. As to Brunner's gland hyperplasia, I have never heard of it, and there is not much info that I can find. However, in the little I found nothing is said about production of acid. Maybe Polly and/or Tex can weigh in and explain it?
Ant,
I can eat nightshades. In fact potatoes are the vegetable I tolerate best. I don't seem to have a problem with tomatoes, I am glad to say. I have grown a great crop of tomatoes on my balcony and they are affording me a great deal of pleasure, both visually and flavor wise. I have given many to neighbors, made some tomato sauce and even eaten some.
Maggie,
I go back and forth all the time, but a really bad accident with no forewarning at all is something I haven't had for a long time. When D comes the cramps are pretty bad and the storm is over fairly soon, but then I have to deal with horrible C. So far I have not had a day free of one or the other. The first day or 2 of C I am relatively comfortable. Then the C goes on and on...
Gabes,
You have far more patience and tenancity than me!
You are my model for patience, tenacity and, best of all, a wonderful attitude!
You know what? It's called no choice! If there was one I would have made it long ago!
Apart from the D <-> C cycle I battle with I am still really struggling with GERD. I have to take Nexium. Without it I am in agony. What it's doing to my MC is anybody's guess. I try to take as little as possible, but if I put it off too long the repercussions are enormous.
And, with all this, the exhaustion is often overwhelming. You know the feeling.
Oh well...
Thanks all for your support. I don't know what I would do without it!
Lesley,
Bruner's Gland is a gland in the submucosa of the duodenum that has the job of producing an alkaline-based mucus to protect the duodenal lining from the acid secreted in the stomach that's metered into the duodenum along with the chyme, as the stomach empties. Bruner's glands are located above the Sphincter of Oddi (the Sphincter of Oddi is which the pancreatic duct adds bicarbonate, along with digestive enzymes produced by the pancreas, to the chyme, to help raise the pH of the chyme from roughly 4–5 to a pH of about 7.4–7.8). 7.5 is neutral.
Bruner's glands also secrete uragastrone, which serves to inhibit the parietal and chief cells of the stomach from producing excessive amounts of acid, thus also helping to provide protection for the lining of the proximal duodenum (upstream of the Sphincter of Oddi).
IOW, if the Bruner's glands have a problem with excessive growth (hyperplasia), that will almost surely affect their ability to regulate both acid and buffer production, so subsequent additional damage could occur due to disregulation of the pH, at least above the Sphinctor of Oddi. This may tend to be a self-perpetuating problem, unless steps are taken to intervene in the cycle.
At least, that's how I see it.
Tex
Bruner's Gland is a gland in the submucosa of the duodenum that has the job of producing an alkaline-based mucus to protect the duodenal lining from the acid secreted in the stomach that's metered into the duodenum along with the chyme, as the stomach empties. Bruner's glands are located above the Sphincter of Oddi (the Sphincter of Oddi is which the pancreatic duct adds bicarbonate, along with digestive enzymes produced by the pancreas, to the chyme, to help raise the pH of the chyme from roughly 4–5 to a pH of about 7.4–7.8). 7.5 is neutral.
Bruner's glands also secrete uragastrone, which serves to inhibit the parietal and chief cells of the stomach from producing excessive amounts of acid, thus also helping to provide protection for the lining of the proximal duodenum (upstream of the Sphincter of Oddi).
IOW, if the Bruner's glands have a problem with excessive growth (hyperplasia), that will almost surely affect their ability to regulate both acid and buffer production, so subsequent additional damage could occur due to disregulation of the pH, at least above the Sphinctor of Oddi. This may tend to be a self-perpetuating problem, unless steps are taken to intervene in the cycle.
At least, that's how I see it.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex wrote
Just thinking out loud.....
Best, Anthony
I have noted that when in a flare of watery D sometimes it also produces the famous "baboon butt" and sometimes not. I also remember that some have suggested that diary intolerance is most connected to the "baboon butt". I am wondering if there is any connection to diary (casein) intolerance and suboptimal production of alkaline by the Bruner's Gland?Bruner's Gland is a gland in the submucosa of the duodenum that has the job of producing an alkaline-based mucus to protect the duodenal lining from the acid secreted in the stomach that's metered into the duodenum along with the chyme, as the stomach empties.
Just thinking out loud.....
Best, Anthony
----------------------------------------
"Softly, softly catchee monkey".....
"Softly, softly catchee monkey".....