My Antihistamine Experiment........BINGO!

[Gloria]

Zizzle,

I also noticed that several of my reactive foods on the MRT test were high in histamines. But I also had some foods that were non-reactive, but high in histamines, such as chocolate and tomato.

Gloria

[wmonique2]

Hello everybody,

I have been following this thread and reading every piece of research that was posted or linked.

Here's the scoop on HISTAME or DAO: HISTAME is made from the KIDNEYS of the pig. I suppose that still qualify as porcine for those who have tested positive on the entorelab test (or eat Kosher :-)

Now, something else I found out: instead of taking DAO, you can achieve the same results by increasing your VITAMIN C and B6!

Now I am gonna leave the stage and defer to the experts: Tex, Polly----------what do you say about this???

Love you all!

Monique

[wmonique2]

Here's what it says:

An increase in DAO activity with the histamine-free diet was shown in migraine patients (57). In addition, histamine degradation can be supported by the administration of vitamin C (133) and vitamin B-6, which leads to an increase in DAO activity (14, 135). Positive effects have been reported for mast cell stabilizers and pancreatic enzymes (136), especially with respect to gastrointestinal symptoms.

I found it in tnelson's link, it's a long abstract if you have the time and inclination to read it:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full


Monique

[Polly]

Bonjour, Monique!

Great info! I will look into this. It is unusual in our country for anyone to be deficient in vitamins B6 and C. But then, we MCers are not "usual". During flares our absorbtion of nutrients is impaired, plus many of the foods that contain these vitamins are no-nos for us - whole grains, legumes, citrus fruits, etc. Thanks for sharing.

Tnelson,

I'm doing well, thanks. I have been able to stop the antihistamine after about 2 1/2 wks. and have added back in some foods with histamine like white wine (YAY, although I still haven't tried red, my favorite) and canned tuna and salmon. I was even able to tolerate a little fresh tomato (which is just barely yellow on MRT for me). BMs are now once a day at the same time but still tend to be puff-poopies! But I can live with that. No big deal. As long as the frequency/urgency is under control, I am happy.

a bientot,

Polly

[JFR]

Polly,

Do you know why high histamine foods are problematic sometime and other times they cause trouble? I have had the same experience of going low histamine and then being able to add higher histamine foods back in.

Jean

[tex]

Now, something else I found out: instead of taking DAO, you can achieve the same results by increasing your VITAMIN C and B6!

Well, yes, but taking a vitamin is not the same as taking supplemental DAO. Vitamins may improve DAO production or utilization in the future, but it's not likely to ever result in the availability of the quantity that would be available with direct supplementation. That said, it's certainly possible that the results achieved by vitamin supplementation might be adequate for the job, but as Polly pointed out, it's not common to be deficient in those particular vitamins.

One thing to keep in mind is that while a copper deficiency will cause a DAO deficiency, vitamin B-6 doesn't necessarily actually help to produce DAO. What apparently happens is that a vitamin B-6 deficiency can prevent DAO from working properly, so that taking B-6 will only help if one is B-6 deficient and adequate DAO is available to begin with.

And remember that unless you happen to be intolerant of pork, pigs are not all that bad. The design and function of a pig's digestive system is quite close to the physical arrangement and the performance of the human digestive system. In fact, they are so similar that organs from a pig's digestive system can (and are) successfully transplanted into humans when a replacement is needed and a suitable human organ is not available.

Tex

[Polly]

Hi Jean,

Don't know for sure but I'll take a stab. For one, I think it may be related to a "tipping point". That figure that Joe shared a few weeks ago was illuminating, I thought. The one showing all of the areas of the body impacted by histamine and the resulting symptoms. I think on certain days histamine can be tolerated/cleared effectively by the body - IF one is not eating any food triggers, not having any major stress, the pollen count is low, etc. But add in something like red wine (that is a double whammy, since it is loaded with histamine and also reduces DAO effectiveness) and BINGO - look out! Especially if one has eaten a food trigger or is stressed or respiratory allergies are acting up.

For another, I think it also depends on the state of the gut. If one has been flaring and the gut is majorly inflamed, I think the histamine-caused acid release from the stomach, for example, is highly irritating to the gut mucosa, resulting in greater likelihood of D and other symptoms. Once the gut has healed, there is less impact. It's can be a viscious cyle, so to speak.

What do you think???

Namaste,

Polly

[Zizzle]

Polly,
I am so relieved to hear the antihistamine protocol doesn't have to be forever. I was on the fence, thinking my MC wasn't bad enought to need them, especially if I had to be on them forever. I feel better now that I know I can reach for them when I have flares.

[wmonique2]

Bonjour, y'all!

Polly, Tex---Thank you for following up on the vitamin supplement issue. We may have uncovered another layer in this Texas-size onion we are peeling :-) And Tex, thank you for explaining it all, it is all so complex and complicated...When I joined this forum, I didn't know I was joining Medical Detectives (Medical P.I's :-)

Tex----Polly mentioned a figure that Joe posted, do you happen to know if in this thread or elsewhere?

Warm regards,

Monique

A bientot aussi Polly!

[Kari]

This sure is a very interesting topic/thread, so I'll jump in with my experience.

I read a similar report about vitamin C a while back, Monique, and started taking it on a daily basis, and it did seem to help. However, subsequently, I discovered through research that added vitamin C can increase blood sugar, so I dropped it. After 4 months, my a1c reading improved substantially, so that theory was pretty much confirmed in my mind.

I've been back to experimenting with antihistamines, as I started reacting to the Histame, and now I seem to tolerate Claritin (however, it is not as effective as before). Because of your experience, Polly, I've bought some Zantac to try next time things get dicey (which inevitably happens ). Imodium is still my go to drug for slowing things down, and seems to work well.

Like you Polly, I'm also quite happy with going once, or even twice a day, without any other symptoms than loose stools. I've pretty much given up on Norman - the best I hope for is starting out "firmish", and ending "softish". The one thing that consistently works for me to minimize symptoms, is to stay physically active through various activities (yoga being my favorite).

Love,
Kari

[Joefnh]

Monique here is a copy of the chart that outlines the various histamine receptors (H1 through H4) and the relevant areas of the body they affect

[mickjcat]

Joe,
Great chart! How do you show graphics on this forum? Thanks for any help.....

[JFR]

Hi Jean,

Don't know for sure but I'll take a stab. For one, I think it may be related to a "tipping point". That figure that Joe shared a few weeks ago was illuminating, I thought. The one showing all of the areas of the body impacted by histamine and the resulting symptoms. I think on certain days histamine can be tolerated/cleared effectively by the body - IF one is not eating any food triggers, not having any major stress, the pollen count is low, etc. But add in something like red wine (that is a double whammy, since it is loaded with histamine and also reduces DAO effectiveness) and BINGO - look out! Especially if one has eaten a food trigger or is stressed or respiratory allergies are acting up.

For another, I think it also depends on the state of the gut. If one has been flaring and the gut is majorly inflamed, I think the histamine-caused acid release from the stomach, for example, is highly irritating to the gut mucosa, resulting in greater likelihood of D and other symptoms. Once the gut has healed, there is less impact. It's can be a viscious cyle, so to speak.

What do you think???

Namaste,

Polly

Thanks Polly,

What you say makes sense but honestly I don't know what I think. Although I have spent my life believing that if I simply understand something I can then know what to do about it, lately I have been thinking that when it comes to bodily processes, there is such a large amount of complexity that I will probably never understand the whys and wherefores and am usually satisfied with a more pragmatic approach, namely whatever works. What seems to have worked for me is removing all my known sensitivities which presumably is healing my gut and then judiciously adding in foods, but not very many and not in large quantities. So far so good although I have some weird symptoms that I can't even describe adequately and that stubbornly refuse to go away. They are neuro-muscular, or so it seems, and I am hoping that a combination of time and meditation will lead to an improvement.

Jean

[wmonique2]

Thanks you Joe for that wonderful chart. It's EVERYWHERE, EVERYWHERE!!!!

Kari---thank you for reporting your experience with vitamin C. I take it you're a type 2...I am a type 1 (for forty, long drawn out miserable years :-) Juvenile for me) so I have to pay attention to all of these things because just about EVERYTHING affects BS's. Including breathing...

Tex and Polly---from the bottom of my heart, thank you for guiding us in these uncharted territories.

Love y'all (don't you all love my southern french accent???)


Monique

[wonderwoman]

Polly wrote

I have been able to stop the antihistamine after about 2 1/2 wks.

I am surprized that she went off the antihistamines. I started taking 1 loratadine 24 hr tablet and dropped the budesonide towards the end of August and am doing fine. Normans every morning. Now I'm wondering if I should drop the antihistamine or continue with it. I thought I was going to be on it long term. I hate to have a relapse as I have been on and off budesonide so many times and find that it doesn't work as well when I begin again.