Hi, newbie here. :)
So are there any genetic factors with MC, or is the development of MC strictly based on diet, stress, and other environmental factors?
Genetics
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Hi,
Welcome to the board. Unfortunately, only a tiny percentage of the general population have genetics that do not predispose to MC, so virtually anyone is a candidate for the disease (under the right conditions). The celiac genes, DQ2 and DQ8, are strongly connected, of course, and all of the DQ1 and DQ3 genes predispose to MC. Only the DQ4 genes have no association with the disease, and if I recall correctly, only something like 4 tenths of one percent of the population fall into that category.
Again, welcome aboard, and please feel free to ask anything.
Tex
Welcome to the board. Unfortunately, only a tiny percentage of the general population have genetics that do not predispose to MC, so virtually anyone is a candidate for the disease (under the right conditions). The celiac genes, DQ2 and DQ8, are strongly connected, of course, and all of the DQ1 and DQ3 genes predispose to MC. Only the DQ4 genes have no association with the disease, and if I recall correctly, only something like 4 tenths of one percent of the population fall into that category.
Again, welcome aboard, and please feel free to ask anything.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Perskaya01
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:56 pm
- Location: Kyle, TX
This is your niece Amanda, Uncle Tex. ;P
I'm largely healthier than I was a few years ago, due to eliminating gluten, but something still isn't right. I hurt a lot, and I'm tired all the time, among other things. I definitely pay the price for trying to be healthy and eat salads. :/
Looking back over my tests, I don't know that I've tested for DQ1 or DQ3. I have tested for DQ2- and DQ8- (through Prometheus) for Celiac, and the results were <0.1X, as an extremely low risk. However, I know that wheat, barley, and rye are an issue for me. I used to have an issue with dairy, but after going gluten free for a couple years, I was able to add dairy back into my diet in small amounts.
I've had problems with low Magnesium, Ferritin, and low calculated % iron saturation in the past.
My colonoscopy results were normal. The only thing the doctor noted was poor prep and Melanosis coli. I read that Melanosis coli is usually associated with the use of laxatives, which I have never taken in my life (even though I have had a gastro try to tell me to just use them). Seems odd to me; there must be a reason it's there.
Dad gave me a copy of your book; I'm about 3 chapters into it right now. Of the problem foods you've noted, I'm still eating corn, tomatoes, bell peppers, and potatoes. Are cooked tomatoes still potentially an issue (as opposed to raw)?
I'm largely healthier than I was a few years ago, due to eliminating gluten, but something still isn't right. I hurt a lot, and I'm tired all the time, among other things. I definitely pay the price for trying to be healthy and eat salads. :/
Looking back over my tests, I don't know that I've tested for DQ1 or DQ3. I have tested for DQ2- and DQ8- (through Prometheus) for Celiac, and the results were <0.1X, as an extremely low risk. However, I know that wheat, barley, and rye are an issue for me. I used to have an issue with dairy, but after going gluten free for a couple years, I was able to add dairy back into my diet in small amounts.
I've had problems with low Magnesium, Ferritin, and low calculated % iron saturation in the past.
My colonoscopy results were normal. The only thing the doctor noted was poor prep and Melanosis coli. I read that Melanosis coli is usually associated with the use of laxatives, which I have never taken in my life (even though I have had a gastro try to tell me to just use them). Seems odd to me; there must be a reason it's there.
Dad gave me a copy of your book; I'm about 3 chapters into it right now. Of the problem foods you've noted, I'm still eating corn, tomatoes, bell peppers, and potatoes. Are cooked tomatoes still potentially an issue (as opposed to raw)?
Hi Amanda,
Yes, I recognized you immediately, but I didn't know whether you wanted to admit to being kin to me or not. LOL. Sorry to hear that you're still having problems.
The big question is, "Did the GI doc take biopsy samples during the colonoscopy and have them analyzed by a pathologist?" That's the only way that MC can be diagnosed. Most GI docs still think that MC is a disease of "older women", so it's not even on their radar with younger patients, or male patients.
Prometheus only tests for the two main celiac genes. EnteroLab (in Dallas), tests for all genes connected with gluten sensitivity (at about half the cost of the Prometheus test).
The excessive fatigue and the inability to tolerate many raw vegetables (especially iceburg lettuce) is typically associated with MC. Most of us are also sensitive to casein (the primary protein in all dairy products), and about half of us are sensitive to soy. Early on, I was sensitive to casein (and lactose, of course), but over the years, I apparently developed a tolerance for casein, and so I was able to eat it without noticing any clinical symptoms. However, last December I sent a stool sample to EnteroLab, and found that not only was my diet apparently cross-contaminated with gluten, but I was also producing antibodies to casein, so it cut it back out of my diet.
Low test levels of vitamins or minerals are a sign of a malabsorption problem (in the small intestine), which correlates with either celiac disease or MC (or both). Without a celiac gene, the odds that you are a celiac are very, very low, but that's sort of irrelevant, because MC trumps celiac disease, and the treatment for MC also covers celiac disease. Most GI specialists still don't realize that the small intestine is involved with MC, but when you get to chapter 9 in the book you will find that basically, the only differences between celiac disease and MC are the diagnostic criteria, (which are arbitrary, as it turns out). and genetics. Both the small intestine and the colon are damged by both diseases, in similar ways (by lymphocytic infiltration, which can only be seen by examining slides made from biopsy samples under the microscope). Celiac disease causes more extreme damage to the villi of the small intestine, of course, but that's a moot point, because the clinical symptoms are the same, and the mode of inflammation (T cell proliferation) is the same for both issues.
Melanosis coli is not exactly common with MC, but it turns up among members here surprisingly often, because it's associated with IBDs, and usually among the younger members, because for some unknown reason, melanosis coli is somewhat common among adolescents. The research article at the following link refers to patients who have Crohn's disease or UC, but the same situation exists with MC, (and almost surely celiac disease, since celiace disease is also an IBD).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9600362
It's also associated with an abnormally high level of apoptosis (apoptosis is programed cell death, IOW, when a cell becomes injured, or can no longer function normally, the immune system marks it for elimination). Of course, IBDs involve a high level of apoptosis, but IMO, high amounts of fiber in the diet can also cause melanosis coli, because fiber damages cells in the mucosa of the intestines, (by physically tearing them).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9067741
The scandal that resulted after Dr. Andrew Wakefield published his report condemning the MMR vaccine, back in 1998, was based in part on his claim that the vaccine caused damage as evidenced by the presence of melanosis coli in many adolescents who had the vaccine. According to other researchers, the condition is common among adolescents, and unrelated to the vaccine. I'm not sure who was right, in that case.
The problems with tomatoes is usually the acid content, tomatoes are actually a fruit, (not a vegetable), and most of us cannot tolerate citric acid in large amounts. Peppers, of course, are irritating when the gut is already inflamed.
Uncle Tex
Yes, I recognized you immediately, but I didn't know whether you wanted to admit to being kin to me or not. LOL. Sorry to hear that you're still having problems.
The big question is, "Did the GI doc take biopsy samples during the colonoscopy and have them analyzed by a pathologist?" That's the only way that MC can be diagnosed. Most GI docs still think that MC is a disease of "older women", so it's not even on their radar with younger patients, or male patients.
Prometheus only tests for the two main celiac genes. EnteroLab (in Dallas), tests for all genes connected with gluten sensitivity (at about half the cost of the Prometheus test).
The excessive fatigue and the inability to tolerate many raw vegetables (especially iceburg lettuce) is typically associated with MC. Most of us are also sensitive to casein (the primary protein in all dairy products), and about half of us are sensitive to soy. Early on, I was sensitive to casein (and lactose, of course), but over the years, I apparently developed a tolerance for casein, and so I was able to eat it without noticing any clinical symptoms. However, last December I sent a stool sample to EnteroLab, and found that not only was my diet apparently cross-contaminated with gluten, but I was also producing antibodies to casein, so it cut it back out of my diet.
Low test levels of vitamins or minerals are a sign of a malabsorption problem (in the small intestine), which correlates with either celiac disease or MC (or both). Without a celiac gene, the odds that you are a celiac are very, very low, but that's sort of irrelevant, because MC trumps celiac disease, and the treatment for MC also covers celiac disease. Most GI specialists still don't realize that the small intestine is involved with MC, but when you get to chapter 9 in the book you will find that basically, the only differences between celiac disease and MC are the diagnostic criteria, (which are arbitrary, as it turns out). and genetics. Both the small intestine and the colon are damged by both diseases, in similar ways (by lymphocytic infiltration, which can only be seen by examining slides made from biopsy samples under the microscope). Celiac disease causes more extreme damage to the villi of the small intestine, of course, but that's a moot point, because the clinical symptoms are the same, and the mode of inflammation (T cell proliferation) is the same for both issues.
Melanosis coli is not exactly common with MC, but it turns up among members here surprisingly often, because it's associated with IBDs, and usually among the younger members, because for some unknown reason, melanosis coli is somewhat common among adolescents. The research article at the following link refers to patients who have Crohn's disease or UC, but the same situation exists with MC, (and almost surely celiac disease, since celiace disease is also an IBD).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9600362
It's also associated with an abnormally high level of apoptosis (apoptosis is programed cell death, IOW, when a cell becomes injured, or can no longer function normally, the immune system marks it for elimination). Of course, IBDs involve a high level of apoptosis, but IMO, high amounts of fiber in the diet can also cause melanosis coli, because fiber damages cells in the mucosa of the intestines, (by physically tearing them).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9067741
The scandal that resulted after Dr. Andrew Wakefield published his report condemning the MMR vaccine, back in 1998, was based in part on his claim that the vaccine caused damage as evidenced by the presence of melanosis coli in many adolescents who had the vaccine. According to other researchers, the condition is common among adolescents, and unrelated to the vaccine. I'm not sure who was right, in that case.
The problems with tomatoes is usually the acid content, tomatoes are actually a fruit, (not a vegetable), and most of us cannot tolerate citric acid in large amounts. Peppers, of course, are irritating when the gut is already inflamed.
Uncle Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Zizzle,
Maybe tomatoes are connected with your chronic rash problem:
http://www.unp.me/f150/citric-acid-intolerance-145258/
Tex
Maybe tomatoes are connected with your chronic rash problem:
NOTE: I only listed the first three symptoms from the site at the link below:Symptoms Of Citric Acid Intolerance
Dry skin is one of the most common symptoms of citric acid intolerance. If your system cannot digest citric acid, your skin will gradually become rough and dry. It may appear white in patches and may look scaly to the normal eye.
Itching of the skin’s surface is another symptom of citric acid intolerance. Itching follows dryness. So, as soon as your skin gets dry, it will automatically start scratching.
Rashes may also occur on the surface of skin when you suffer from citric acid intolerance. The red rashes may erupt in the form of sores or just show itself with the change of color and texture of the skin.
http://www.unp.me/f150/citric-acid-intolerance-145258/
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
-
Perskaya01
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:56 pm
- Location: Kyle, TX
Well, I went to a nutritionist who performed a muscle response test on me (I realize this may be controversial, but just being honest). He told me to remove cow dairy from my diet.Early on, I was sensitive to casein (and lactose, of course), but over the years, I apparently developed a tolerance for casein, and so I was able to eat it without noticing any clinical symptoms. However, last December I sent a stool sample to EnteroLab, and found that not only was my diet apparently cross-contaminated with gluten, but I was also producing antibodies to casein, so it cut it back out of my diet.
I did, and low and behold, after 2 weeks, my health has improved dramatically. I feel better and my digestive issues have gone away. I feel like I have more energy and my appetite levels have balanced out--I'm not always hungry now.
Also, I accidentally ingested dairy through some gluten free chicken while on vacation (which is the only time I would eat processed foods). Wow, did I have a dramatic reaction! I'm still dealing with it two days later. I felt sick to my stomach within a half hour, and later, felt achy all over, but the worst part was the heart palpitations. I'm still dealing with the heart issue a couple days later, although it is significantly better.
Needless to say, I will not be consuming cow dairy anymore. C'est la vie. At least I can still have goat cheese!
Hi Amanda,
Wow! You must really be sensitive to gluten. Heart palpitations are not a common symptom of a gluten reaction.
That testing may be worth more than you realize. Was it by any chance called Bio Impedance Analysis (BIA)? It's an emerging technology.
There are research reports that show that one of the peptides in the casein molecule apparently mimics the alpha gliadin peptide in gluten. That means that many immune systems mistake the casein peptide for gluten, resulting in the same immune system response as gluten, in those individuals.
Goat's milk as a substitute for cow's milk has come up on this board several times in the past, and a number of members who are sensitive to cow's milk have tried it, but as best I can recall, no one has been successful, so far. In California, camel's milk is available, and probably a few other alternatives are offered here and there, but the problem is that while the casein molecules for the various milks are different, they all seem to contain certain amino acid sequences that comprise one or more peptides that are close enough to the offending peptides in cow's milk, that they all trigger a reaction in most people who are sensitive to cow's milk. That said, if you don't actually have MC, then there is certainly a better chance that you might be able to tolerate products made from goat or sheep milk. There is only one way to find out, because there are no lab tests for the casein in the milk of any mammal other than cows.
In fact, the only casein tests available are for A1 beta casein, which is the type primarily produced by most modern dairy cows. Research shows that ancient cows produced milk that primarily contained A2 beta casein. There is only one amino acid different in the respective molecules that define these two proteins, but that single amino acid apparently makes a huge difference in the digestibility of the milk. Unfortunately, our ancestors made the wrong choice long ago, because they selected dairy cow breeds based on production, rather than on protein quality. Today, only a few of the less-popular dairy breeds produce primarily A2 milk, so that A2 beta casein is a very small percentage of the milk available commercially. Still, a difference of only one amino acid in the sequence may not be sufficient to prevent a reaction.
That said, it's possible that you might be able to tolerate milk from Guernsey cows. Their beta casein A2 percentage is far, far better than any other modern breed, but it still contains a few percent of A1 beta casein, which may still be more than adequate to trigger an autoimmune reaction. Guernsey milk would be the best option to try, though, by far, as far as cows go. Goats and sheep, Asian zebu cattle, water buffalo, and yak milk is also mostly A2, but I don't know that the percentage is for them. Brown Swiss milk is mostly A2, but it's still roughly 30% A1 beta casein. Holsteins are the worst, at almost 79% A1 type, and, of course, Holstein cows dominate the dairy business.
At least 85% of us here are sensitive to casein, so that's the second thing (after gluten) that we recommend removing from the diet, at least until better testing can be done (IOW, stool tests at EnteroLab).
You may have it made now, as long as you avoid gluten and casein. If your symptoms return after a few weeks or so, try eliminating soy, also. At least half of us are sensitive to soy. If you read at least through chapter 10 in the book, you'll know why it may take a few weeks for another food sensitivity to show up.
Thanks for the update.
Uncle Tex
Wow! You must really be sensitive to gluten. Heart palpitations are not a common symptom of a gluten reaction.
That testing may be worth more than you realize. Was it by any chance called Bio Impedance Analysis (BIA)? It's an emerging technology.
There are research reports that show that one of the peptides in the casein molecule apparently mimics the alpha gliadin peptide in gluten. That means that many immune systems mistake the casein peptide for gluten, resulting in the same immune system response as gluten, in those individuals.
Goat's milk as a substitute for cow's milk has come up on this board several times in the past, and a number of members who are sensitive to cow's milk have tried it, but as best I can recall, no one has been successful, so far. In California, camel's milk is available, and probably a few other alternatives are offered here and there, but the problem is that while the casein molecules for the various milks are different, they all seem to contain certain amino acid sequences that comprise one or more peptides that are close enough to the offending peptides in cow's milk, that they all trigger a reaction in most people who are sensitive to cow's milk. That said, if you don't actually have MC, then there is certainly a better chance that you might be able to tolerate products made from goat or sheep milk. There is only one way to find out, because there are no lab tests for the casein in the milk of any mammal other than cows.
In fact, the only casein tests available are for A1 beta casein, which is the type primarily produced by most modern dairy cows. Research shows that ancient cows produced milk that primarily contained A2 beta casein. There is only one amino acid different in the respective molecules that define these two proteins, but that single amino acid apparently makes a huge difference in the digestibility of the milk. Unfortunately, our ancestors made the wrong choice long ago, because they selected dairy cow breeds based on production, rather than on protein quality. Today, only a few of the less-popular dairy breeds produce primarily A2 milk, so that A2 beta casein is a very small percentage of the milk available commercially. Still, a difference of only one amino acid in the sequence may not be sufficient to prevent a reaction.
That said, it's possible that you might be able to tolerate milk from Guernsey cows. Their beta casein A2 percentage is far, far better than any other modern breed, but it still contains a few percent of A1 beta casein, which may still be more than adequate to trigger an autoimmune reaction.
Guernsey milk would be the best option to try, though, by far, as far as cows go. Goats and sheep, Asian zebu cattle, water buffalo, and yak milk is also mostly A2, but I don't know that the percentage is for them. Brown Swiss milk is mostly A2, but it's still roughly 30% A1 beta casein. Holsteins are the worst, at almost 79% A1 type, and, of course, Holstein cows dominate the dairy business.At least 85% of us here are sensitive to casein, so that's the second thing (after gluten) that we recommend removing from the diet, at least until better testing can be done (IOW, stool tests at EnteroLab).
You may have it made now, as long as you avoid gluten and casein. If your symptoms return after a few weeks or so, try eliminating soy, also. At least half of us are sensitive to soy. If you read at least through chapter 10 in the book, you'll know why it may take a few weeks for another food sensitivity to show up.
Thanks for the update.
Uncle Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.