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Smile: Gingivitis Bacteria Manipulate Your Immune System So They Can Thrive in Your Gums
Jan. 3, 2013 — A new research report published in the Journal of Leukocyte Biology shows how the bacteria known for causing gum disease--Porphyromonas gingivalis--manipulates the body's immune system to disable normal processes that would otherwise destroy it. Specifically, the report shows that this pathogen prompts the production of the anti-inflammatory molecule Interleukin-10 (IL-10). This, in turn, inhibits the function of T-cells, which would otherwise help to protect the host from this particular microbial infection.
For those that are interested: Swilling liquid zinc reduces/elminates gingivitis and encourages healthy gums. Water it down to half zinc half water for regular use. use full strength after dental work.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Gabes,
Thank you for this timely post. I have an appointment with my periodontist next Monday for a consultation and will show him this article. Sometimes I think my gum problems are worse than having MC. It seems like if I get food stuck between my teeth and it doesn't get removed immediately, the gums will swell very badly. This will also happen if I am under stress. My line of thought is when I'm having a reaction that he take a biopsy of it and have it stained to do a mast cell count, but I'd also like to show this to him. I'm looking at having 4 extractions but I'm afraid to invest all of this money in my mouth only to have the problems reoccur. I'm at a loss. I had Enterolab testing done and it showed only a slight reaction to gluten (which was the only thing I had eliminated from my diet) everything else rated a 0. In showing the results to my GI Doctor, she did order a serum Iga test but it came back within the normal range. My last colonoscopy was in July this year and I couldn't get her to stain for mast cells. She did refer me to the university of Michigan for the mast cell issue but the only thing I got from her was a recommendation to see a psychiatrist and a nutritionist. I'm hoping since I have a good relationship with my perio doctor that he might be willing to help. Then again, this may be another blind ally. My gum problems are not a result of poor hygiene as I see him every 3 months for cleaning and examinations. If anyone else out here in Mc land has any suggestions, I would really appreciate hearing them. Once again, thinks for the link.
Lindy
A wide variety of dental issues are common across the MC’ers (as if MC is not bad enough)….. I know that Stanz, Polly, Joe have all had major works done
The issue you may have is that not many medical professionals (dental, GI or otherwise) are keen to embrace the relationship of mast cells with these issues. (it is hard enough getting a GI that understands MC!! Never mind mast cells) don’t be surprised if he looks at you blankly.
Due to various reasons (sick childhood with lots of sugary cough medicines, the MC and chronic GERD etc) my teeth are not in good shape. In the past 18 months I have had three molers extracted. One of which had 4 canals of root canal therapy 13 years ago and had a crown on top.
My theory the teeth causing toxins/inflammation are better out than in. My diet is mostly mushy well cooked foods to suit MC so lack of teeth will not be a major issue. I cant afford implants.
18 months ago when I had the first major issue, the oral surgeon ordered a CT scan, via this we were able to confirm where all the troublesome teeth were. Discussions with my dentist was we will deal with them as I was up to handling the removals. I have now had the worst two removed. My chiro/kinesoliogist thinks the toxic teeth were also part of what exacerbated my mystery kidney issues.
Since having dental work 18 months ago, I have been swilling zinc/water weekly. And the two recent removals, was putting pure zinc liquid on the gums about 5 times a day.
In all cases the maxifolion surgeon and dentist have commented how well my gums heal, better than other patients that don’t have the health issues I have.
The colonoscopy biopsy I had 18 months ago was tested for mast cells and there were some. As my GI is not familiar with it, she basically ignored the statement on the path report.
For any dental work, I take H1 and H2 blockers 40 mins before hand to minimise mast cell reactions. I think Joe (or maybe Tex) has made the comment or seen an article where products used by dentists for cleaning, etc are highly likely to cause mast cell reactions. In my case I react to all anaesthetics. Taking the blockers as ensure there is minimal mast cell activity in my gut.
My advice, I would do a bit more research before you make a final decision. See what the periodontist says and then ponder your options from there.
Long term, digestion and all body wellness may be reliant on the decisions you make re your teeth/gums so you want to have a good basis of information to make the decisions.
you have my empathy, this stuff is pretty full on to be dealing with
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Last April I went in for a teeth cleaning. It was shortly after my mom passed away and I had some severe swelling in I think 3 of the 4 quadrants of my mouth. The hygienist put some type of solution on my gums to numb them and boy did I suffer for days from that. For three days I couldn't close my teeth together they hurt so bad. I know I should have called them to let them know about it but if someone doesn't understand what this problem is, what good would it do going back? I've been trying to understand the roll of mast cells and how I react to them - for instance, I am extremely intolerant to heat. One of my favorite past times is mowing the lawn. I call it my thinking time as the sound of the mower blocks out any other noise but if the temperature is over 75 degrees, when I'm finished my face is bright red and takes quite a while to return to a normal color, and I have just a regular sized suburban lot. I also suffer from frequent bouts of flushing. It will occur 6-10 times during the day where my face and torso become drenched in sweat. There is no reason for it. My last period was over 4 years ago so I don't think this is hormone related. And the night sweats will wake me at least a few times every night. One curiosity is I thought low bp was common with a mast cell problem, yet 3 years ago I developed high blood pressure. I just am not sure who to turn to anymore, but I feel an urgency to solve this problem as I have a daughter who has been diagnosed with Chrones disease and they are ready to start her on Remicade. Originally, I was diagnosed with Chrones which we now know was actually MC and I'm just afraid they are going to be treating her with a very powerful drug for a condition she may not have. I do have a very good relationship with this periodontist and maybe if I were to show him this thread we can do some thinking 'out of the box'. I will try the zinc. I'm not quite sure, but when my mom was dying and my mouth was a mess I think it might have been you that suggested the oil pulling and it did relieve the swelling somewhat. If you have read this far, thanks for listening Gabes. I do appreciate you suggestions and advice.
Lindy
for me mast cells caused increase in BP and heart rate.
I know marybeth was getting mast cell reactions when she would do running (when she was training for a marathon with her son)
if you do a search of the archives- look for a post done by Joe about 12 months ago. In this post he has some links to articles and within one of the articles there is a chart and it shows the symptoms of histamine/mast cell reactions and whether they are H1, H2, H3 or H4.
even though you are not menstrating, there could still be hormone issues in play (too much of something or not enough of something else...)
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Gabes your post on this topic is quite timely. On Feb 4 I head back to the operating room for the final stage of reconstruction on my upper right jaw. About a year and a half ago while I was traveling overseas I had a toothache that soon after returned from traveling I found I had to have the tooth removed. Upon further investigation, it was discovered that I had significant issues with very weak and pourous bone that was supporting the upper right jaw and the last 4 teeth. It should be noted that prior to my diagnosis with MC & Crohns that I had very low vitamin D levels which can lead to bind issues like this.
To make the long story short just about a year ago now I had that section of the jaw removed and replaced with a piece of donor bone from my right hip. Well the transplanted bone has more or less taken and integrated fairly well and I will be going back to the OR to have one additional metal plate put in to guarantee the strength of the graft and have the implants placed for the 3 teeth to be replaced. One of the 4 will not be replaced due to the risk involved with extending the graft that far back.
I know over this past 10 months I have been taking a modestly high dosage of oral prednisone for some spinal problems. The combination of the extended steroid use has resulted in lower vitamin D and osteoporosis developing in my spine. All of this is a risk for good oral health. To address this I will upping my vitamin D and probably increase the Metagenincs bone health formula I am taking. With this article Gabes has posted I am going to add to the regimen the more frequent usage of the liquid zinc especially in preparation of the next round of surgery.
Linda in relation to the issue of mast cells I did a bit of research regarding mast cells which included how they are often aggravated by medications (most likely what was rubbed on your gums) and a discussion of how to possibly control a mast cell flare up with H1 & H2 histamine blockers
The discussion with supporting documentation can be found at:
Linda since that discussion about histamine blockers about a year ago whenever I go in for dental work of spinal cord injections, both which include lidocaine or related local anasthetics, I have been taking both H1 & H2 histamine blockers suck as cimetidine and loratidine. So far this has proven to stabilize any potential mast cell reactions.
LindyLou,
I've never had oral health problems, just a few cavities from childhood and braces as a teen. However, I think those braces triggered a nickel allergy that might be related to my autoimmune problems. I'm having my last 2 amalgam fillings replaced later this month, because I've read a few research articles where nickel allergic people also react to mercury and other metals. In some cases, autoantibodies resolved when metal in the mouth was removed. Incidentally, metal crowns are made of nickel.
I tried oil pulling a few times and it felt good. You swish sunflower oil in your mouth for 10-20 minutes, then spit and brush your teeth again. It seems to suffocate any oral bacteria and people swear by it for other ailments too. It seems the swishing action can get things moving in your head and neck, which may be helpful.
Regarding numbing agents, the lidocaine injections can have ingredients you react to, including thimerisol, which contains mercury. I don't react to it, but I have a condition that makes it less effective (joint hypermobility/Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome). Dentists always give me the max dose and I still feel it!
I'm on Prednisone now and have developed extreme teeth sensitivity as a result. I read it can take years to resolve! Ugh!!
Finally, regarding your flushing and night sweats, it sounds like hot flashes, which many women get well into menopause. My mom is 70 and still complains of constant hot flashes! The thinner you are, the more likely you are to get them because estrogen and other hormones are stored in fat.
Gabes, in the reading I have done, I always came up with low bp related to mast cell issues. Even tho I don't wish these problems on anyone, Your high bp and heart rate tells me that maybe I am on the right track. I also have a higher than average resting heart rate. And the bright red face from over exertion has been with me since I was about 13. I was living in Florida and had to run a mile in school in the heat. Since that episode, whenever I overheat, not only do I get red but I also get an excruciating headache. This dentist appointment is for a consultation only. I think he may listen and try to understand. The links provided on this thread certainly will help. I'm going to try the zinc along with the histamine blockers. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Joe, I have severe bone loss in two areas of my mouth. The perio wants to remove 4 teeth, regrow the bone and then do implants. These procedures were supposed to begin about 6 months ago but I haven't followed through as I have felt there is something triggering these problems that are as of yet unresolved in my mind. My front right tooth will need to be removed soon as I think I lost the last bit of bone holding that tooth in and can no longer bite down on anything. It's low probably about 3mm. I also have low vitamin D which I am trying to correct with supplements. Thank you for providing the link. I was searching through you posts and was having difficulty finding it.
Zizzle, now that I'm thinking about it, i think it was you who recommended the oil pulling. Thank you for the suggestion, it did give me some relief. I never even thought about any relationship with having braces and any type of allergy to the metals, but I also had the 'metal mouth' when I was young and now have elevated Ana numbers. I've had about half of my fillings replaced so far but it has been 3 years since I have seen my regular dentist. Maybe it's time to have the rest replaced.
Thank you all for providing your input. I regard you all very highly and appreciate your advice and sharing your experiences.
Zizzle the tooth sensitivity drove me nuts, it's taken just about 3 months now and it is settling down. For me it was a sensitivity to anything cool or cold.
Linda it is interesting how many of us have these odd coincidences. I think Tex noted that spinal stenosis seems to be a condition that's noted amongst the members here. I could not believe that you could develope porous enough bone to not support teeth.
Headaches / with or without nausea and vomitting were very common for me when the mast cell issues were at the worst
my resting heart rate was also very high during this period (over 100)
teeth wise, the damage is done and there are limitations on what you can do going forward, at least with this new lot of information you can prepare better, handle the treatments better and make some good informed decisions.
take care - hope the appointment goes well
PS - also ensure you are having good inputs of Vit D3.....
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Linda wrote:One curiosity is I thought low bp was common with a mast cell problem, yet 3 years ago I developed high blood pressure.
The low BP you are referring to is associated with an anaphylactic reaction. If mast cell degranulation results in an IgE reaction, and it becomes serious enough, yes, BP can drop to dangerously-low levels, during anaphylaxis. Analaphylaxis is an accute mast cell-initiated event, and then it quickly passes. The mast cell reactions that we experience though, associated with MC, are not anaphylactic reactions. By contrast, they are chronic reactions, and so they cause different symptoms, sometimes including increased BP and increased heart rate.
When the body tries to heal areas of inflammation, additional blood supplies are needed in order to carry in nutrients and lymphocytes, and to carry out waste and other debris, and if the areas of inflammation are large enough, this can lead to increased BP and/or increased heart rate to help supply the additional blood. The reason why inflamed areas become reddened, is because of all the additional blood flow.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex, Thank you so much for that clarification. I really consider myself medically illiterate. Time and again you have helped me and many others to understand this whole mess. Your insight is so valuable.
I am one who had severe teeth issues from the age of 8 or 9. My teeth also did not get much support from the bone in my jaws and 3 times I had surgery to add "gel-bone" to give further support. I went from crowns, to bridge, to finally full dentures top and bottom. Not how I wanted things to go but it has worked out better than the problems I had all of my life.
Love, Maggie
Maggie Scarpone
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
Just want to bump this to the top of the list as I have my appointment with the periodontist today. It was my husbands birthday yesterday and I took him out on a date to Woflgange Pucks restaurant. The waitress assured me they can modify any dish to suit my dietary needs, however this morning, it's back to the big D and now another quadrant in my mouth is swollen. Sigh.........
When will restaurant personnel realize that it takes more than just good intentions to successfully handlle food sensitivity issues — they have to get everything right.
I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience. Hopefully your periodontist will learn something about the seriousness of food sensitivities from your experience.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
When will restaurant personnel realize that it takes more than just good intentions to successfully handlle food sensitivity issues — they have to get everything right.