Stress and LC

Carriagehouse · Post by **Carriagehouse** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:03 am

Somehow after playing on the floor with my 9-month old grandson I managed to wrench my knee while getting up. It is so painful, I can't support any weight on it. Took myself to urgent care where they took x-rays and found some torn ligaments, fluid and signs of arthritis. They gave me a knee brace and tried to give me anti-inflammatories and pain medication which I declined, explaining my LC and the fact that I can't take NSAID's. All I can do is ice it and elevate it. I barely made it home before massive D hit me, and I've been in a flare ever since. Just when I had finally gotten to the point where I felt I could start walking again. Not gonna happen with the knee injury or the D. Guess I can add depression back into the mix :(

Does anyone have any other recommendations for pain and swelling?

Post by **tex** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:32 am

Hi Leslie,

Sorry to hear about that chain of events. I have to say that it certainly seems to prove that stress is a major factor in the pathogenesis of MC.

I've never used tramadol, but to the best of my knowledge, it's a safe pain reliever for most people who have MC. Of course, tramadol is a very weak opioid receptor agonist, but it's not considered to be a narcotic. Of course, the narcotic pain killers are generally safe for us, also, except for the risk of impaction with long-term use. As far as I am aware, the only other non-narcotic pain reliever that is known to be safe for anyone who has MC is acetaminophen (Tylenol), and many members here complain that it is not effective for them. I have generally had good luck with it, but I always take it with or immediately following a meal — taken on an empty stomach, it seems to be worthless, as far as I can tell.

Tex

jgivens · Post by **jgivens** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:08 pm

That sounds miserable, Leslie. I am so sorry.

I have used Tramdol and I want to say at the outset that I am definitely a "lightweight" when it comes to drugs of any kind. If they don't mess with me physically, I find that some of them just change my behavior and either depress me or make me lose my "filters". IOW, I become uninhibited. If I recall, a full dose of Tramdol gave me such a nasty migraine and I was so dizzy, that the pain I was taking it for was totally eclipsed by the other and it wasn't worth it to me, as I could not stand upright.

It is a drug doctors love, as it bypasses the gut and does a great job for a lot of people--even elderly people. I hope that this setback does not last long for you. Remember it is a disease of three steps forward and two back at times.

Tex, could Leslie's signs of arthritis in her knee joint have anything to do with the MC?

Post by **tex** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:59 pm

Jane wrote:Tex, could Leslie's signs of arthritis in her knee joint have anything to do with the MC?

Definitely! The arthritis associated with MC is a result of intestinal permeability. The longer we are symptomatic, the worse it can become. At one time, I had to use not just one, but two canes in order to walk, because my knees were so inflamed. My right knee was the main problem, though, and research shows that the type of arthritis associated with MC is usually not symmetric. IOW, it usually doesn't affect joints on both sides of the body, at least not equally, the way that RA typically does. I still have a couple of crooked fingers on my right hand, to remind me of those days, because like RA, the damage is not reversible, once it occurs.

After I changed my diet, and healed a bit, the arthritis slowly faded away. I haven't had a need for a cane since those days, and that was over 10 years ago. Early on, I found that taking flax seed oil and glucosamine sulphate helped my knee pain, and I've been taking them ever since, with no further knee problems.

Tex

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:13 pm

Leslie
ouch!

due to some kidney BP issues i am not able to take painkillers. in November and then again in December i had some dental work done (the second with complications) i got through it without any painkillers
Pain is the body's way of saying 'STOP'

the following is what i did;

- Ice (almost constant) to numb the pain
- Guideded meditation / relaxation music
- funny movies (mostly kids animated as they are my favourites)
- be nice to your body, have easy to digest meals so that you dont increase inflammation in the body
- lots of Vit C and zinc to help the body heal
- mind over matter, the pain wont be intense for ever, you want to heal and you are willing to nurture and support your body to heal, rest when it wants to rest, be patient, be willing to give it the time it needs
- let people help you, and dont feel bad about asking for help! (i am fiercly independent so this was not easy for me! but i did it!)

Carriagehouse · Post by **Carriagehouse** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:45 pm

Tex, thank you for your quick response. I am taking low dose Naltrexone, which as you know is an opiate, for the inflammation in my gut, so I can't combine that with other narcotics or, as I understand it, I will experience extreme nausea. Do you have any idea if Tramadol would interact with LDN? Insofar as the arthritis issues, I have it in both hands/wrists and in my spine - nothing debilitating, but sometimes bothersome. I do a lot of sewing and hand quilting so I think some of the pain I experience in my fingers and wrists are a result of overuse and repetitive motions, plus I was a legal assistant for 25 years and all that time spent on the keyboard gave me carpal tunnel in both hands (which I had surgically repaired a few years ago.) My knees have only given me troubles for the past couple of years. It is interesting to make the connection between the various joint issues and LC.

Thanks, Jane. Like you, I tend to react to medications with depression/lethargy and I have been a migraine sufferer since I was 25, so I would probably avoid any medications that list headache as a potential side effect. I have only had one real migraine since going GF/DF in early December, so that has been the one positive side effect. I think the headache I had was brought on by sugar so I am trying very hard to go sugar free as well - I already know that sugar substitutes cause me to flare almost immediately.

Gabes - thanks for all your great suggestions! I am already taking zinc but I discontinued extra Vitamin C because I had substantial D when taking it just before I was diagnosed and I thought it was the problem. I will try taking it again and see how I react to it. All your ideas for relaxation are good ones and since I am on my own for a couple of weeks, (meaning I don't need to cook meals for anyone else or stay on top of the dust bunnies) I will give myself permission to lay low with my leg elevated/ice pack in place, and do some marathon comedy watching.

Post by **tex** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:21 pm

Leslie wrote:Do you have any idea if Tramadol would interact with LDN?

I found a paper published by the Multiple Sclerosis Resource Centre in the UK, that lists tramadol as an exception, provided that the two drugs are taken 4 to 6 hours apart:

Special Precautions
LDN should NOT be used at the same time as Morphine treatment or a derivative of Morphine.

On starting LDN the recent use of opiate analgesics will result in an opiate withdrawal syndrome with increased pain, muscle spasm and possible vomiting and diarrhoea. It is therefore advisable that any opiate analgesics be discontinued at least two weeks before starting LDN. These include drugs such as Co-Codamol, Oxycodone, Fentanyl and Buprenorphine Patches. Tramadol CAN be used; however, they must be taken 4-6 hours apart. The use of LDN at the same time as sustained release pain killers is NOT recommended.

The red emphasis is mine.

http://www.msrc.co.uk/downloads/choices_ldn.pdf

Tex

Carriagehouse · Post by **Carriagehouse** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:34 pm

Thanks so much, Tex! I seem to be managing with Tylenol and ice packs every couple of hours, but I may see about getting a prescription to have on hand for future injuries ~ the perils of grandmotherhood ;) I will make a note to remind myself of the 4-6 hour rule.

Carriagehouse · Post by **Carriagehouse** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:46 pm

Got my MRI results today. Bilateral meniscus tears with a part of the meniscus splitting and shifting from the edge to the middle - this has to be removed and there is no repair or replacement. Sprained ligaments on either side of the knee, fluid in the ACL and considerable arthritis where bone is rubbing on bone. Surgery scheduled this Wednesday, 2 months of rehab and physical therapy, a week of crutches and anti-inflammatories and pain meds. Very worried about going backwards with my LC symptoms due to stress and meds, but I'm thankful it isn't an ACL tear which requires more complicated surgery and very lengthy rehab. Reminding myself things can always be worse!

Still waiting for Enterolab results .....

CathyMe. · Post by **CathyMe.** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:06 am

Carriagehouse wrote:Got my MRI results today. Bilateral meniscus tears with a part of the meniscus splitting and shifting from the edge to the middle - this has to be removed and there is no repair or replacement. Sprained ligaments on either side of the knee, fluid in the ACL and considerable arthritis where bone is rubbing on bone. Surgery scheduled this Wednesday, 2 months of rehab and physical therapy, a week of crutches and anti-inflammatories and pain meds. Very worried about going backwards with my LC symptoms due to stress and meds, but I'm thankful it isn't an ACL tear which requires more complicated surgery and very lengthy rehab. Reminding myself things can always be worse!

Still waiting for Enterolab results .....

Oh my Leslie, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Good luck with your surgery and recovery!

wmonique2 · Post by **wmonique2** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:47 am

Hi Leslie,

Good luck on your surgery. I had something similar...patience and good attitude helps...

Monique

tlras · Post by **tlras** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:05 pm

Good luck with your surgery! I have surgery tomorrow as well. I do hope both of us can get by with taking the meds without having a major flare. This is going to be a big test! Sending hugs your way! Let us know how you do.

Terri

wmonique2 · Post by **wmonique2** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:11 pm

Terri,

I was wondering when was your surgery scheduled. Good luck to you too. I'll keep you in my mind and heart. Will send you LIGHT and LOVE.

Monique

tlras · Post by **tlras** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:09 pm

Thanks Monique! I get good or bad news on Valentine's Day. Hoping to have a hysterectomy by the summer.

Terri

PS...Got my mug shot ready to put up. Will work on that with hubby this weekend as I won't want to be out and about.

Leah · Post by **Leah** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:18 pm

Oh Leslie, so sorry to hear about all of the damage done. All I can say is that Gabes gave you great advice and should be remembered as you are healing after surgery. And if you don't feel the need for the anti-inflammatories, then don't take them. I can actually take Advil or Aleve for about a week without flaring, so hopefully it won't put you into a flare. I'll keep my fingers crossed :)

I hope you have a speedy recovery
Leah

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Stress and LC

Stress and LC

stress and LC

stress and LC