Can you be constipated & have D?

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:18 pm

This morning I had the worst painful cramps that made it hard to walk or stand up. They are cramps I associate with C, yet I had some spasms that caused loss of control with D. This happened three times this morning which made getting ready for work a treat. I've been tapering the entocort and have been ok with skipping two days between each 3mg dose. I seem to have the cramping on the day I take entocort within a half hour. I'm wondering if I should add a day of skipping it but am afraid of a flare and having to up the dose again. I became nauseous and briefly felt like I was going to pass out, which is very unusual for me.

Has anyone ever had C-like issues but still have D? It sounds like the dumbest thing but that's right up my alley.

Post by **tex** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:00 pm

DebE,

If the C causes a blockage (or a partial blockage) D typically works a way around the blockage, so that's one way it can occur. I've had that happen without taking budesonide.

It's a shame you can't get half-dose or third-dose Entocort capsules. The reduced dose wouldn't be as likely to cause C.

Tex

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:55 pm

Can you really have C if there is nothing solid or formed? That's the perplexing part . I experienced true C years ago while traveling and it was nothing like this. That was truly horrible. It makes me wonder if those are the types of pains people with Crohns have. It's not been a regular problem so I'm not sure what to make of it. Too bad for my son- I had to visit the bathroom while he was in the shower and then kick him out a few minutes later while he was brushing his teeth. I still swear my body saves up emergencies that are activated when the bathroom door is closed to me. Too bad there's only one toilet in the house.

I may just try skipping the third day of entocort since my goal is to be off of it anyway. I just don't want to go too fast like I've done in the past, then again maybe it's a very obvious sign.

Post by **tex** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:44 pm

Well, you can have cramps without formed stools if you happen to be taking certain drugs, such as bile acid sequestrants, including Questran (cholestyramine), Welchol (colesevelam), or Colestipid (colestipol). There are also other drugs that can cause cramps (besides budesonide), including most antidepressants and other mood-altering drugs.

And when I was still reacting, I used to get severe cramps at the end of my D cycle, just before I deflated and switched to the C phase (but I usually didn't have cramps with the C phase).

Tex

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:44 am

It'd be so much easier if we could all follow a more defined pattern.

Although the life long management is pretty basic- manage the diet, see results. It's just figuring every else out in between that's the challenge!

No cramping issues today so I'll just have to keep up with trial and error. I just need to be more observant- sometimes it seems so draining to keep records of day to day of symptoms. Guess I shouldn't complain- its progress.

Leah · Post by **Leah** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:13 pm

Hi Deb. When you were taking the Budesonide every other day, how did you feel? Did you have cramping? Normans? You may be tapering off too quickly. .... OR, it's time to get off of it completely. I remember in October, we went on a short vacation for our anniversary. I had been off of the drug for a little while, but I was scared all the eating out would cause me trouble, so I took one pill. Talk about being uncomfortable! Cramps, pain, bloat, and C for 1 1/2 days. My body was telling me that I definitely didn't need it any more. I will never do that again!

Leah

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:18 pm

Deb
I am one that has strange BM's and a tendancy towards C.

For me, for 12 months or more, majority of the time my BM is either more like constipation or MC mud. I can have MC mud at 7am and then pebbles at 3pm.

if i have a intense day where there has been a bit of adrenalin running through my system, late afternoon my BM will start as slightly constipated and very quickly turn to MC mud. for the 15 mins before hand there is discomfort like the mud is pushing through the C type stuff (does this make sense)
As soon as i feel this discomfort, i know that i have about 10 mins to find a toilet and be prepared for quite a mess.

only about 1 day a week do i do anything resembling 'norman' (no C, no mud) mostly this is saturday morning after about 13 hours rest.

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:08 am

Leah, that's my dilema right now-guessing which one it is. I'm going with the idea that I should decrease the dose. Like Tex mentioned, it's too bad I can't get a smaller dose to take more frequently. I've been on entorcort since February of 2012 so I don't think I'm going too quickly but I am by far no expert on that subject. I was begining to believe I may never be able to go lower than 3mg/day. I tried every other day several times but always seemed to have problems with it but never had the cramping. It could have been a fluke with the cramping but I'm going to try a three day gap and see what happens. I just don't want to have to increase the dose again but also have to be realistic that it could very well happen and I'll just have to start the process again. I won't know til I try so hopefully after the 3day gap maybe I'll notice cramping again as a sign to add another no pill day.

I'm always hesistant because I don't have Normans but seem to follow Gabes trend of MC mud and C but without the actual pebbles. It just feels like everything is backed up but mostly comes out in D of some form. I'm disappointed that the urgency hasn't gone away. It has improved in the sense that I don't have nocturnal D issues and most the time I can sleep until I plan to wake up instead of my morning D determining when I have to get out of bed. Last night I made a poor call and had some chocolate- it didn't change the D pattern but was the need "to go" in the morning is what woke me up.

Gabes- I know what you mean exactly!! I enjoy is so much when someone else explains a pattern that fits the me mold.

Except for here, not many others talk so freely and in great detail about poop without feeling like they're being gross. It's such a relief. I've been going through some added stress at work and it's been in the back of my mind that it could cause a major set back for me. I went to bed earlier than normal a few nights (7ish) this week and keep working on attitude and mindset which will hopefully help in maintaining my progress. I also made a point to do some light weight lifting/resistance on my Total Gym to release the tension that was builing in my neck and shoulders. I will be taking on some additional responsibilities at work for the next few months but at the same time by doing this I will be able to restructure a vacant position that will alieviate a ton of stress for me in the long run.

mzh · Post by **mzh** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:08 am

Loose and then pebbles in the same day happened to me too. That's when I decided it might be time to quit Entocort. I did and it worked. This was after much weaning off time. Have been off it since Jan 7. I can still have D once in a while but it's a one time thing, thank heavens.

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:44 am

That's encouraging- glad to hear of your success!

SmallTownLady2U · Post by **SmallTownLady2U** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:45 pm

I agree DebE13, I was dignosed with Celiac disease in 2009 and we readjusted our lives and learned what I could and could not eat it took time to heal and learn all the new ways... but we did it and lived very succesfully. I was diagnosed March 22'2013This is much harder because it is not a one size fits all. It is nice to meet others going threw the same thing although I would not wish this on anyone.

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:02 pm

I laugh now because I think how simple it would be if I only had to deal with eliminating gluten. It wouldn't take much effort all!

brandy · Post by **brandy** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:05 pm

Hi Deb13,

Have you considered Harma's technique of going to 2/3 of capsule or half a capsule at low end of Entocort. She opened the caps and poured some out. I never tried it but just a thought. Best wishes and hope you get some gardening time this spring! Brandy

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:41 pm

Brandy- I remember reading some of Harma's posts about that, thanks for the reminder. I would have a hard time discarding the unused portion because the cost is so ridiculous. Today is the first day of a four day gap so I will see how it goes. If its too rough I can always give that a try.

It's still in the 30's and 40's here with snow predicted for Thursday

I've been peeking my head outside a lot but find I can't really do anything since there's no green in sight. Take care.

mzh · Post by **mzh** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:52 pm

You can probably get them at a lower dose from a compounding pharmacy. Hopefully they will use the right kind of capsule - the kind that doesn't disintegrate in the stomach but in the gut.