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In another thread Zizzle wrote:I have LC and I also rarely experience any pain or cramping. I have the classic "painless" D.
Speaking of MC and pain: Pain-sensing nerves in the intestines are virtually all located on the outside periphery of the intestines (not in the interior, at the mucosal surface). That implies that those of us who experience pain with our reactions are either feeling pain due to bloating (radial stretching of the intestines) or we have inflammation on the exterior surface of the intestines. Perhaps this is the heretofore unnoticed missing link that defines MC.
Someone recently mentioned that their doctor noted visible inflammation on their intestines during a laparoscopic procedure. The doctor had to be looking at the exterior of the intestines, since the procedure was associated with a hysterectomy, as I recall.
This could be why MC is so life-altering, even though GI docs don't see any reason why it should be. Perhaps they're looking at the problem from the wrong side of the intestine — maybe most of the inflammation is on the other side of the intestinal wall.
I'm not saying that this absolutely the case — I'm just pointing out that it might possibly be an important overlooked issue, because it would certainly explain the pain issue, and it has never even been considered before, because GI docs never look there.
Im sure that f you would ask a GI specialist about this, she or he would insist that it's a ridiculous suggestion, and totally untrue. But how would they know? They never look there.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
I also suspect I have a high tolerance for internal pain...or dull nerve endings. I had natural childbirth without much trouble, but cuts and burns hurt like crazy. I can report to a doctor that everything feels great digestively, but the moment they palpate the right side of my colon, it hurts.
In the last week I started experiencing gastric pain. I fear I'm developing a stomach ulcer from the prednisone and plaquenil which are notoriuosly rough on the stomach. No GERD or heartburn, just sharp stomach pain especially after I take the meds, even with food. Sigh.
Zizzle wrote:I fear I'm developing a stomach ulcer from the prednisone and plaquenil which are notoriuosly rough on the stomach.
I sure hope not. You have enough going on already, but that sharp pain after taking the meds is not a good sign. As you are well aware, doctors always tend to downplay the side effect risks of drugs.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Me! That was me with the laparascopy! My gyn was the one who saw my color from the outside while looking for endometriosis. He said it looked ugly and angry--red, swollen in sections, etc.
I have a lot of pain with my MC. Different types, too. One type is the pain before an episode of explosive D--the horrible cramps that take over the entirety of my abdomen, kind of a burning-type pain. Hard to explain, but it is very painful. Sometimes they occur on their own, without the D episode.
The other type I have is this raw pain--almost like scrathes or irritation inside. Like if your foot gets irritated by a shoe. Kind of like the pain of gastritis?
And of course the third type of pain I had was the stabbing, pulling pain where the laparascopy uncovered that adhesion. It is still tender in that spot, but I am hoping that once it heals, that type of pain will be gone...
And the interesting thing is that even at my worse, I have never, ever had more than 1 episode of explosive D per day. Never. sometimes I have up to 3 BMs a day, but the watery, explosive type is never more than once.
Thanks for the confirmation. I really think that we're onto something here that has been totally overlooked in the diagnostic markers of MC. Remember that when doctors are initially describing a disease, they can only describe what they actually see (or at least what they think they see). That means that any associated feature that they overlook will not be included in the official description of the disease, and as a rule, disease descriptions are rarely updated. That implies that any mistakes or oversights are virtually chiseled in stone.
One thing that could confound this observation is diverticulitis. Were you by any chance ever diagnosed with diverticulitis?
fluffypoodle wrote:And the interesting thing is that even at my worse, I have never, ever had more than 1 episode of explosive D per day. Never. sometimes I have up to 3 BMs a day, but the watery, explosive type is never more than once.
That's additional evidence that the severity of laboratory markers of MC has no correlation with the severity of clinical symptoms.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I have been having pain at the terminal ileum/appendix site since I was about 20 - not appendicitis but blooming annoying! Ironically I have seen an increase in pain in the last 3-4 weeks, on top of the grumbling gallbladder (not diagnosed but an educated guess), always at the normal site but variably anywhere up the ascending colon and across the transverse to mid point! I feel fine and my BMs are effectively normal with the odd day not so good. I have only had a couple of episodes of explosive D in the last few months and I finally stop budesonide on Monday coming - I have been reducing it for the last 10 weeks since going onto it last July. I have been GF since late November! I intend getting the York test done in a couple of months as I suspect I am reacting to other things than gluten still to be identified and they won't do it if you are taking steroids. But I am going to ask a question which has occurred to me over the last week - I normally do not drink a lot of water without making a focused effort to do so. I have increased my intake and on days when I drink more I have noticeably less pain. Could dehydration be a factor still, despite normal BMs?
Anne
I had a lot of pain about a month after I started treatment, but rarely get it now. And when I do, it almost always means D is coming. At least I get a warning. :)
Anne wrote:Could dehydration be a factor still, despite normal BMs?
The pain may simply mean that it's time to wean off the budesonide, because if we don't need it, budesonide can cause C. More water intake is a remedy for C, so that supports the possibility that the pain may be associated with C symptoms due to the budesonide.
I'm not saying that this is definitely what's happening, but at least this is a reasonable possibility (even with normal BMs).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex
Nope never been dxd with diverticulitis. In fact I've never gotten a dx of anything but ibs and then after the biopsy of lc. I thought the pain was in my appendix where the adhesion was. I still havd the appendix.
I have a similar pain up higher near my liver but the doc said the live r looked perfect. I suspect scar tissue from having my gallbladder out in 2001.
fluffypoodle wrote:Nope never been dxd with diverticulitis. In fact I've never gotten a dx of anything but ibs and then after the biopsy of lc.
Then there's no logical reason why the serosa of your colon should be inflamed (unless that's an undiscovered feature of MC). Now if you had been the one to notice that inflammation, your GI doc would probably say that it was merely a figment of your imagination (since that's not included in the official description of LC), but since another specialist noticed it, it must actually exist.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Gloria wrote:Like Zizzle, I haven't had pain or cramping with my MC. Pressure, yes, but without pain.
Then clearly, the serosa of your intestines was/is not inflamed.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
