MC And Abdominal Pain — Does This Hold A Huge Clue?

[fatbuster205]

I thought the pain was in my appendix where the adhesion was. I still havd the appendix.
I have a similar pain up higher near my liver but the doc said the live r looked perfect. I suspect scar tissue from having my gallbladder out in 2001.

Describes my pain exactly and I still have both organs!

Anne

[fatbuster205]

The pain may simply mean that it's time to wean off the budesonide, because if we don't need it, budesonide can cause C. More water intake is a remedy for C, so that supports the possibility that the pain may be associated with C symptoms due to the budesonide.

I'm not saying that this is definitely what's happening, but at least this is a reasonable possibility (even with normal BMs).

Sounds very plausible, as I had similar pain last year when I kept getting RHS impactions. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks.
Anne

[jgivens]

Tex,
I do believe you may be onto something..,but what is causing my intercostal pain (besides gas)? I've had far less pain lately but I have noticed after a bowel movement it feels like everything is in a cramp and the space that feces were taking up is still in pain mode, like it got stretched out and can't go back to its previous state right away.

[tex]

Tex, can MC cause Ab cramps. Like exercise (muscle)AB cramps not the intestines?

Maybe. I'm not sure if it can cause isolated AB cramps, but when I was having episodes where the bloating was severe, everything hurt — both inside and out, and I'm pretty sure that most of the pain was due to all the distension and stretching. I can remember feeling as though something was trying to rip out my bellybutton, and it was pulling against some of the parts inside.

Tex

[tex]

Tex,
I do believe you may be onto something..,but what is causing my intercostal pain (besides gas)? I've had far less pain lately but I have noticed after a bowel movement it feels like everything is in a cramp and the space that feces were taking up is still in pain mode, like it got stretched out and can't go back to its previous state right away.

I have a hunch that phenomenon is caused by a combination of things — thicker and stiffer than normal colon walls, and a side effect of MC on normal defecation reflexes. Basically, there are two main types of defecation reflexes — the intrinsic myenteric defecation reflex and the parasympathetic defecation reflex.

You can read the details of what each type does here.

Most of us have experienced how powerfully MC can affect both types, but we're especially aware of how it can almost instantaneously corrupt the parasympathetic defecation reflex to cause fecal incontinence seemingly at the drop of a hat.

When I originally "went through the clinic", since my tentative diagnosis was colon cancer, the first test was a series of CT scans. The scans didn't reveal any cancer, but when I questioned the operator, she revealed that my colon appeared to be stiff, the walls were much thicker than normal, and segments of it were flattened. IMO that's valuable insight that isn't commonly associated with this disease, but I have a hunch that it isn't commonly associated with the disease mostly because most people who are diagnosed do not have any CT scans, and even if they do, those markers would be shrugged off, since they're not listed as diagnostic markers of MC (or anything else, for that matter).

Normally, a BM should relieve cramps/pain (not cause them). But if the walls of the colon are thicker and stiffer than normal, then it's not surprising that the nerve sensors on the serosal surface would be stimulated anytime that a significant change occurs in the size (diameter) or configuration of the colon (such as immediately following a bowel evacuation, or partial evacuation). When this is combined with nerve sensations and physical effects of compromised defecation reflexes (because of the effects of MC), it seems logical that it should easily be possible for a normal BM to result in an inappropriate pain response, simply because MC corrupts so many normal (but relatively complex) bowel functions. As you continue to heal, that effect should fade away.

At least that's my take on the situation.

Tex

[fluffypoodle]

hi Tex,

Oh, yeah, the inflamation exists--I have pictures to prove it! and will be taking those pictures to the next GI doc I see. who knows--maybe i'll get another diagnosis. although the clown i saw before said that he had no doubt that I had LC based on the biopsy results.

funny enough, i also have pictures from the colonoscopy where my colon looks great on the inside--except for a few scratch-like red marks, it is really normal looking....

[tex]

funny enough, i also have pictures from the colonoscopy where my colon looks great on the inside--except for a few scratch-like red marks, it is really normal looking....

That's the way that a colon with MC typically appears through a scope — it appears to be normal and healthy. But if you look closely, you can usually see random patches that are a slightly darker shade of pink, and these are the areas where MC is active. IOW, these are areas of active inflammation. They are definitely not obvious, so the doctor has to be looking for them in order to even notice them, because they look nothing like the grossly-inflamed areas that are typically associated with either Crohn's disease or UC.

Dr. Fine first reported this over a decade ago, but to date only a few other GI docs have acknowledged this phenomenon. Those who are aware of it have begun to collect their biopsy samples from those areas, and this significantly boosts their odds of successfully diagnosing the disease. Biopsy samples taken from areas outside of those patches will typically result in negative biopsy results.

Tex

[Gloria]

Gloria
are you CC or LC?

I have LC.

Gloria

[DebE13]

My mom had diverticulitis and a section of her colon removed. I don't remember all the detail but it was originally overlooked- they were looking from the inside. After they sent her home her pain worsened. A second surgery revealed all the nastiness on the outside. Her recovery was long and painful. She has daily D issues and food sensitivities also but has not taken the same approach to diet as I have. I believe, if tested, she would have the same issues with gluten, dairy, and soy that I have.

[tex]

DebE,

And interestingly, diverticulitis is marked by the same type of lymphocytic infiltration that is used as a diagnostic marker for LC. IOW, if you look at a biopsy sample taken from the affected section of the colon of someone suffering from diverticulitis, under a microscope, the lymphocyte count will be elevated, just as it is with LC.

Tex

[DebE13]

I've always been concerned about developing diverticulitis but I don't experience much pain often. The more I learn here the more I'm convinced heredity is a big factor with my CC. She had all she could do to convince the doctors that something was wrong. They sent her home insisting everything looked good so maybe it was in her head more or less. She proved them wrong once they saw the outside covered in "pockets" that we're inflamed and infected.

[JFR]

I've always been concerned about developing diverticulitis but I don't experience much pain often. The more I learn here the more I'm convinced heredity is a big factor with my CC. She had all she could do to convince the doctors that something was wrong. They sent her home insisting everything looked good so maybe it was in her head more or less. She proved them wrong once they saw the outside covered in "pockets" that we're inflamed and infected.

I believe that one of the serious problems in medicine is that doctors believe their tests over patients' reports of symptoms. If their tests don't reveal the problem it is often assumed that the problem is all in the patient's head. It is a very arrogant stance based on another assumption, that the tests that now exist are capable of detecting anything that is wrong with the body, which simply cannot be true There is always more to learn. My family practitioner has not been of much help to me in dealing with all my digestive woes but at least she believes me and doesn't assume that everything is all in my head. An honest admission of ignorance sure tops an arrogant assumption of omniscience.

Jean

[tex]

Tex

[fluffypoodle]

hi again, Tex

I got my 'pictures' today and it turns out--my husband's description was wrong. my colon looks a healthy color on the outside--same color as inside. it's just it looks like i swallowed a golf ball and it is stuck there. i don't know if there were more of those 'balls' there or just the one that was pictures--but how strange is that?

he said the adhesion pulled my colon up towards my belly botton--so way higher than where it should've been...

[tex]

Hmmmm. Well that sheds a different light on the whole situation, then. That appears to make the entire serosal inflammation issue a false alarm.

I don't understand how your doctor could look at a "golf ball" distortion in the shape of your colon and associate it with either inflammation or colitis. That sounds more like diverticulosis.

Tex