Update on my daughter - on my own again!

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Zizzle
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Update on my daughter - on my own again!

Post by Zizzle »

As you may recall, my 6 yr old has loose or watery stools once a day, but she’s thriving and growing well. So far we’ve identified a mild allergy to all legumes as the possible culprit, but she still has daily D despite elimination of legumes. Her fancy GI doctor from the local Children’s Hospital called me with her stool test results. They were all normal – no malabsorption of sugars, fats or other nutrients, no parasites or infections, no signs of h.pylori, etc. She said the next step is upper endoscopy and sigmoidoscopy with biopsies under general anesthesia!! Plus she would want her to take 2 months of high dose Prevacid or Prilosec before the procedure to ensure the esophageal biopsies are accurate :shock: (since undiagnosed acid reflux can cause elevated eosinophil counts in the esophagus. Yeah right! If not, she would do a 24 hour Ph scope (a tube down her throat for 24 hours to measure the acidity). Ha!

I asked what she expected she might find and she said given that she’s an “allergic kid” (tree pollen and legumes), she’d be primarily looking for eosinophils (allergic inflammation cells) in the esophagus and/or colon. Intestinal biopsies would look for celiac disease or h.pylori missed by the blood and stool tests. I mentioned my MIL has elevated mast cells in her skin and colon (mastocytic enterocolitis), and she said that’s rarely seen in kids. That kids only get elevated mast cells on their skin. Of course no one thinks to do the special stain required to find it in their colonic biopsies, so of course they don’t find it! I think she said she would order the stain for it if I requested. I asked what the treatment would be assuming they find eosinophils, and she said “there is no treatment.” HUH? She would send us back to our allergist to do more food allergy testing to determine which foods to eliminate next. I asked, “can’t we skip the invasive testing then and simply go back for more allergy testing?” She admitting this could be an option. But of course she would choose the option that makes her $$. :roll:

I asked if she would consider ordering Enterolab tests, given how much they helped me and thousands like me. She said there is "no scientific basis for it" so she would not, but suggested my pediatrician might order it.

So I think my next step is to go to a nutritionist or a functional/integrative medicine practice that can order the non-mainstream stool and food sensitivity tests. I think she probably has microscopic colitis like me, either triggered by the e.coli infection in Guatemala or her tree pollen cross-reactivity issues. My friend with Crohn’s said her doctor said some people have watery diarrhea as their “normal.” As long as it’s only once or twice a day, and she is growing and developing fine (which she is), he said that can be considered a normal BM. Do you buy that? I think it’s a sign of chronic inflammation and intestinal permeability which will eventually lead to autoimmune diseases and/or IBDs. I imagine it’s mostly confined to her colon, therefore most of her digestion and absorption are not affected, but how long can I leave it alone? My husband wants to leave it alone completely – no more tests. I think I’ll eventually order her the Enterolab stool and gene tests I ordered for myself, but I need to justify the expense to my husband.

Ugh, on my own again...
1987 Mononucleosis (EBV)
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
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tex
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Post by tex »

Wow! Pay big bucks, and have your poor daughter go through all that when there's no treatment available? :yikes: Does that doctor have any kids of her own? If she has, I feel sorry for them. But then, she probably wouldn't subject them to such abusive treatment.

I wonder what the scientific basis is for subjecting your daughter to all those invasive tests, when there's no way that she will derive any benefit from going through all that miserable stuff. If that's good science, I'm a :monkey: 's uncle.
Zizzle wrote:he said that can be considered a normal BM. Do you buy that?
I'd have to think about that one for a while before I agreed with it. :headscratch:

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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update on my daughter

Post by wmonique2 »

Z.,

You know what you're supposed to do about your daughter more than anybody else. That doc is full of it. La vieja es loca....:-)


Monique
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Zizzle
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Post by Zizzle »

tex wrote:
Zizzle wrote:he said that can be considered a normal BM. Do you buy that?
I'd have to think about that one for a while before I agreed with it. :headscratch:

Tex
Diarrhea appears to be defined as loose or watery stool at least 3 times a day. She's only had 3 BMs a couple of times in the last year, maybe longer. So I guess that means we're not dealing with diarrhea? Maybe she has a malfunction in the water balance of the colon??

She also has joint hypermobility like me (weak collagen), which often comes with IBS symptoms or gastroparesis. Maybe this is a form of "functional", non-inflammatory D? Wishful thinking, I know.
1987 Mononucleosis (EBV)
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
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Post by JFR »

Zizzle wrote:
Diarrhea appears to be defined as loose or watery stool at least 3 times a day. She's only had 3 BMs a couple of times in the last year, maybe longer. So I guess that means we're not dealing with diarrhea? Maybe she has a malfunction in the water balance of the colon??

She also has joint hypermobility like me (weak collagen), which often comes with IBS symptoms or gastroparesis. Maybe this is a form of "functional", non-inflammatory D? Wishful thinking, I know.
Since definitions like "diarrhea" are to some degree arbitrary, the fact that her symptoms don't get labeled D doesn't necessarily mean that they are unimportant or "normal". You have a better grasp on whether your daughter has a problem that needs to be addressed in some way or simply ignored than any doctor would who merely follows the definitions in a text book. The questions you ask remain the same, "what's causing this"? and "can it be treated?". I hope you find some answers. Certainly the answer is not do a bunch of invasive traumatizing tests that will change nothing.

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Post by Jazi »

Zizzle,

Is your daughter GF?
Joanne

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Post by jgivens »

That just sounds awful, Z. It is bad enough to try to figure out what to do for yourself, but a decision about a child carries all kinds of guilt and fear with it. I had one of those nasty PH scope things a couple of years ago and it was simply awful. Who in their right mind would subject some poor child to that if they didn't have to. My philosophy is when in doubt wait and try to discern the right decision. I certainly wouldn't let the doctor decide because obviously, she wants to make some money by doing it. I am so sorry. I do hope you can figure your way out of this problem for your daughter's sake.
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Post by Zizzle »

No, my daughter is not GF, just relatively low gluten given what we eat at home. She craves gluten containing foods like pasta, goldfish crackers and Special K cereal. But she's gotten used to GF pasta and breads at home. Symptom-wise, gluten is actually not a suspect yet. She has no apparent indigestion after a gluten binge, no bloating, no apparent lactose intolerance, unless she eats legumes. But the stool is always a mushy, sometimes watery mess. I plan to order Enterolab testing soon. Don't want to pay for the full package, but I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile in her case. I was going to order the gluten/dairy/soy panel with gene test.
1987 Mononucleosis (EBV)
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
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Jazi
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Post by Jazi »

I was just wondering because my daughter had so many health issues. She was never tested for CD but her pmd did recommend trying to be GF for a few months. Now, almost a year later, she doesn't pass out anymore, no more Iritis and no more D. We have had more trips to the ER throughout her life that this is just amazing that it can be G that has been making her so ill.
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Post by Zizzle »

Wow, Joanne, that's amazing. We did do blood tests for celiac which were negative. If it were up to me, she'd be GF, but my husband is not willing to do it unless we have concrete evidence that she MUST be GF. I'm not even sure he would trust Enterolab's results. He doesn't want her to be labeled and overly focused on what she can and can't eat, although the legume avoidance is already doing that! He thinks going GF will ruin our kids' childhood somehow. Although we haven't discussed it in several months. My husband has been GF for a year now and it's slowly getting easier for him. Although he still partly resents me...he thinks he was fine with gluten until he did a trial elimination. Going GF helped his allergies and headaches, but now he's become very sensitive and gets headaches and hungover/toxic feelings the next day from cross-contamination.

Our kids are healthy overall, smart and growing. There are no major health issues, just the soft stools and pollen/legume allergies with my daughter, and mild lactose intolerance with my son (and he has a DQ2 gene). Unfortunately, things will have to be worse before we drastically alter their diet.
1987 Mononucleosis (EBV)
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
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Post by Jazi »

Zizzle wrote: He thinks going GF will ruin our kids' childhood somehow.
IMO, knowing what I know now, I think going GF is beneficial and maybe even crucial to everyone regardless of documented gluten allergies. My daughter tested negative as well. My whole family has all kinds of illnesses and we grew up on pasta and bread... go figure. If you ask me, it's more like a poison!
Joanne

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Post by Deb »

Zizzle, I had to chuckle at this.
Although he still partly resents me...he thinks he was fine with gluten until he did a trial elimination
DH said something to the effect (somewhat facetiously) that he's having gluten issues because I changed his diet. I laughed and said it had nothing to
do with me....it's genetics! I think we're all looking for someone to blame this on. Deb
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Post by Gloria »

Zizzle,

I'm sure you're worried that your daughter has inherited some of your autoimmune tendencies. I think all of us worry about our children inheriting MC.

If I were you, I would order the most complete Enterolab test. You can assume that she's gluten-intolerant, since the great majority of people are. I think the biggest benefit of getting the genetic test is it confirms to the doubters that we are gluten-intolerant.

The food testing from Enterolab seems to be pretty reliable, since it shows actual antibodies. Convincing your DH is another issue, however. I am amazed at how many GF foods are available these days, making it much less of a deprivation to be GF.

Gloria
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Zizzle
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Post by Zizzle »

Deb wrote:Zizzle, I had to chuckle at this.
Although he still partly resents me...he thinks he was fine with gluten until he did a trial elimination
DH said something to the effect (somewhat facetiously) that he's having gluten issues because I changed his diet. I laughed and said it had nothing to
do with me....it's genetics! I think we're all looking for someone to blame this on. Deb
Deb,
My Father-in-Law blames his growing gluten intolerance on me too. He's had horrible IBS for years, LOUD stomach gurgles, and mild inflammation on his recent colonoscopies (but not MC according to his doctor :roll: :shock:). I convinced by MIL to go GF for her horrible IBS, gas and indigestion and it fixed her right up. Now he says that because of eating a low gluten diet (cooking for her), he can't tolerate bread and regular pasta anymore. What's going on here??

If trial elimination awakens gluten intolerance symptoms in everyone, do I really want to do that to my asymptomatic kids? What if they end up with flu-like symptoms after any cross-contamination? Is it worth it? The family will HATE me.
1987 Mononucleosis (EBV)
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
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Post by Deb »

I think that even if they're asymptomatic they may still be creating issues. By the time my MC reacted my gluten antibody level was 510 (yes that's right) and my dairy, soy and eggs were all 16, 44 and 19 respectively. Though I have tried to reduce my dairy (not always successfully) I still eat them and the rest with virtually no symptoms but I worry about long term effects. I don't ever eat soy intentionally. But my gosh, I do love my cheese and butter! :) Deb
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