It is a striking idea that one of the keys to good health may turn out to involve managing our internal fermentation. Having recently learned to manage several external fermentations — of bread and kimchi and beer — I know a little about the vagaries of that process. You depend on the microbes, and you do your best to align their interests with yours, mainly by feeding them the kinds of things they like to eat — good “substrate.” But absolute control of the process is too much to hope for. It’s a lot more like gardening than governing.
The successful gardener has always known you don’t need to master the science of the soil, which is yet another hotbed of microbial fermentation, in order to nourish and nurture it. You just need to know what it likes to eat — basically, organic matter — and how, in a general way, to align your interests with the interests of the microbes and the plants. The gardener also discovers that, when pathogens or pests appear, chemical interventions “work,” that is, solve the immediate problem, but at a cost to the long-term health of the soil and the whole garden. The drive for absolute control leads to unanticipated forms of disorder.
An interesting article about our guts by Michael Pollan
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An interesting article about our guts by Michael Pollan
It's long but interesting. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/magaz ... ral&src=me
Unfortunately it appears that Pollan fails to recognize that microbial activity is the only significant "digestive" process available in the soil. The soil doesn't actually have a digestive system, so bacteria have taken over that function in the soil. As a result, microbial activity is essential to virtually all significant "digestive" processes that take place in the soil.
That doesn't apply to the human digestive system. We have a dedicated, sophisticated digestive system. While bacterial action enhances (or antagonizes) certain aspects of our digestive process, we have other mechanisms that serve as the primary engines of digestion, namely enzymes, the ability to radically change pH levels at will, and a very efficient mixing system, none of which soil possesses on it's own. It turns out that within the human digestive system, bacteria are basically opportunistic parasites that exploit certain situations when foods are not properly digested.
Our digestive system is quite capable of digesting most common foods in the total absence of any microbial presence, and when the foods that humans evolved to digest are eaten, and no physiological or chemical defects are present, no fermentation is needed. In fact, the less fermentation that takes place, the better, because fermentation byproducts are gas, bloating, and possible cramps. There is nothing good about fermentation in the human digestive system. We don't actually need any tiny buzzards to clean up any leftover undigested food, because our digestive system is designed to expel any and all leftover residues.
Furthermore, most fermentation processes take place in the colon, and since it is impossible for most nutrients to be absorbed from the colon (absorption of nutrients takes place in the small intestine), any nutrients that might be extracted by any fermentation processes are wasted (consumed by bacteria), providing no benefits for us. So in most cases, fermentation by intestinal bacteria is a liability, not an asset. Why promote it?
To paraphrase the first sentence in the quote that was posted, IMO, one of the keys to good health is to minimize fermentation within the digestive system (rather than to promote it). I have nothing against fermentation. I believe that it is a legitimate way to make foods more digestible. But if foods are to be fermented, then they should be fermented outside the body, before they are eaten.
As far as I can tell, the fewer bacteria I have in my body, the better off I am. I certainly can't avoid them, because they number in the billions (or trillions), and eliminating them all is impractical. But that doesn't mean that I have to try to promote them by providing a more appealing environment for them. After all, in the final analysis, they're still parasites. At least that's the way I see it.
I just hope that I won't be on their "hit list" when they see what I have posted here.
Tex
That doesn't apply to the human digestive system. We have a dedicated, sophisticated digestive system. While bacterial action enhances (or antagonizes) certain aspects of our digestive process, we have other mechanisms that serve as the primary engines of digestion, namely enzymes, the ability to radically change pH levels at will, and a very efficient mixing system, none of which soil possesses on it's own. It turns out that within the human digestive system, bacteria are basically opportunistic parasites that exploit certain situations when foods are not properly digested.
Our digestive system is quite capable of digesting most common foods in the total absence of any microbial presence, and when the foods that humans evolved to digest are eaten, and no physiological or chemical defects are present, no fermentation is needed. In fact, the less fermentation that takes place, the better, because fermentation byproducts are gas, bloating, and possible cramps. There is nothing good about fermentation in the human digestive system. We don't actually need any tiny buzzards to clean up any leftover undigested food, because our digestive system is designed to expel any and all leftover residues.
Furthermore, most fermentation processes take place in the colon, and since it is impossible for most nutrients to be absorbed from the colon (absorption of nutrients takes place in the small intestine), any nutrients that might be extracted by any fermentation processes are wasted (consumed by bacteria), providing no benefits for us. So in most cases, fermentation by intestinal bacteria is a liability, not an asset. Why promote it?
To paraphrase the first sentence in the quote that was posted, IMO, one of the keys to good health is to minimize fermentation within the digestive system (rather than to promote it). I have nothing against fermentation. I believe that it is a legitimate way to make foods more digestible. But if foods are to be fermented, then they should be fermented outside the body, before they are eaten.
As far as I can tell, the fewer bacteria I have in my body, the better off I am. I certainly can't avoid them, because they number in the billions (or trillions), and eliminating them all is impractical. But that doesn't mean that I have to try to promote them by providing a more appealing environment for them. After all, in the final analysis, they're still parasites. At least that's the way I see it.
I just hope that I won't be on their "hit list" when they see what I have posted here.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I probably, in my ignorance, posted a wrong part of the article. I like Michael Pollan. It was in response to a radio show I heard him on years ago that I recognized how much my diet affected my health. I first heard from him that we should be eating like our grandparents ate. I'm sorry that he isn't "spot on" in all of his conclusions but I think he has a lot of positive information to offer. Deb
Deb,
FWIW, I agree with him that we should be eating the way our grandparents ate, but I disagree with him about playing in the dirt and embracing bacteria. I did that when I was an infant, and as I was growing up, and it didn't work at all for me.
Tex
FWIW, I agree with him that we should be eating the way our grandparents ate, but I disagree with him about playing in the dirt and embracing bacteria. I did that when I was an infant, and as I was growing up, and it didn't work at all for me.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I'm not sure what to think of this. My belly feels really good when I drink kombucha tea and tepache (fermented pineapple juice) as well as eating sauerkraut and kimchi. For me I think the added bacteria is good. I am in no position to argue the science of this but for me, I think the added bacteria and the elimination of the gluten has improved my health.
I do OK eating fermented foods also, and I believe that fermented foods are beneficial for anyone who can tolerate them. I ate Bubbie's Sauerkraut for a while when I was recovering. Anyone who does not have mast cell activation disorder should be able to eat fermented foods, and they are very easy to digest (since they are pre-digested).
Whether or not the bacteria that come with those foods are even capable of surviving the trip through our stomach acid, however, is a valid question. We know from research that even if some of them manage to survive the trip, they cannot attach and propagate, so they can survive in the intestines for only a limited amount of time, in limited numbers, before being swept downstream.
Only gut bacteria that have been previously "programmed" in a human gut can successfully attach and propagate in human intestines. That's why probiotics have to be replenished every day, because the bacteria are transients, incapable of becoming permanent residents, and therefore incapable of reproduction.
Tex
Whether or not the bacteria that come with those foods are even capable of surviving the trip through our stomach acid, however, is a valid question. We know from research that even if some of them manage to survive the trip, they cannot attach and propagate, so they can survive in the intestines for only a limited amount of time, in limited numbers, before being swept downstream.
Only gut bacteria that have been previously "programmed" in a human gut can successfully attach and propagate in human intestines. That's why probiotics have to be replenished every day, because the bacteria are transients, incapable of becoming permanent residents, and therefore incapable of reproduction.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.