I discontinued my multi vitamin with iron when I was diagnosed. Feb 7 2012 bloodwork done, ferritin scores of 17 (range is 11-307). 11-7-12 gyn PAC did hemoglobin test, scores were 13.6 (range of 12-15.5) Prior hemoglobin test a couple of months b/f diagnosis was low.
Went in today to discuss other things but touched on my blood work from Feb with PCP (which I thought was normal--as GI doc had access as in same networkto my tests and pronounced my blood work normal on 2-17-12)
PCP today was concerned about my low ferritin score from Feb. I shared my hemoglobin score with PCP but he said it was a different thing. Never got around to talking with PCP about what do do about low ferritin score.
I'm periomenopausal but still have pretty tough fatigue at times particularly in evening. I'm eating a cup of leafy greens a day and protein 3x per day so don't think I can get much more thru diet. I'm afraid of trying a supplement as GI wise I'm doing pretty well. Any comments on supplements? I'm thinking of maybe adding in a Freeda womans with iron short term or every other day and perhaps listening to my body and if the fatigue is kicked to the curb discontinue. Other than the fatigue I'm doing pretty well but would love to have more energy in the evenings but don't want to go backwards. Any comments on iron alone supplements? My folate score was 14.2 and B12 score was 1358 (which he pronounced as high). My TSH was 1.550. Discussion online that the following can cause low ferritin: celiac disease, hypothyroidism, vitamin c deficiency and inflammation the body. I figure I'm yes to celiac, inflammation of the body and probably wasn't getting enough vitamin c back then too. It seems touchy to supplement but would be interested in feedback.
Plan to get lab work again in feb 2013. Sheesh--learned that lesson--next time I'll get hard copies of all lab results.
Brandy
to iron or not to iron
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Hi there Brandy
i know you have a pretty full on working life, which is not easy to juggle in MC world
my opinion about vitamins/Supplements
things like multi vitamins, have small amount of everything, they are a marketing ploy for people that dont eat well. if someone has a vitamin deficiency there is not enough in the multi to help them recover from the deficiency.
treatment for deficieny is generally a medicated dose for 8 - 12 weeks and then a maintenance dose
(the levels in multi vitamins are generally below maintenance dose)
especially in MC world, we have to focus on actual deficiencies. If we are deficient in Vit D, we take high doses. if we are deficient in calcium we take high doses of that.
additional keep in mind that PCP/ specialists are going to stick to the recommended maximums; in the case of Vit D is 300iu - 800iu per day. My GP is still coming to terms that I take over 2000iu per day of Vit D3
if you are deficient in Iron then take an iron supplement i have a liquid type one that did not cause me any digestion issues
before doing this it is important to understand what is actually happening, in the blood work results there will be various things such as serum iron, transferrin IBC, transferrin saturation and serum ferritin assay (i am assuming the blood test naming is the same as Aus)
long story short there is 'stored iron' and then there is 'available iron' - it is important to understand which one of these is low, before you go taking a supplement in high levels.
i know you have a pretty full on working life, which is not easy to juggle in MC world
my opinion about vitamins/Supplements
things like multi vitamins, have small amount of everything, they are a marketing ploy for people that dont eat well. if someone has a vitamin deficiency there is not enough in the multi to help them recover from the deficiency.
treatment for deficieny is generally a medicated dose for 8 - 12 weeks and then a maintenance dose
(the levels in multi vitamins are generally below maintenance dose)
especially in MC world, we have to focus on actual deficiencies. If we are deficient in Vit D, we take high doses. if we are deficient in calcium we take high doses of that.
additional keep in mind that PCP/ specialists are going to stick to the recommended maximums; in the case of Vit D is 300iu - 800iu per day. My GP is still coming to terms that I take over 2000iu per day of Vit D3
if you are deficient in Iron then take an iron supplement i have a liquid type one that did not cause me any digestion issues
before doing this it is important to understand what is actually happening, in the blood work results there will be various things such as serum iron, transferrin IBC, transferrin saturation and serum ferritin assay (i am assuming the blood test naming is the same as Aus)
long story short there is 'stored iron' and then there is 'available iron' - it is important to understand which one of these is low, before you go taking a supplement in high levels.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Brandy,
Gabes advice sounds logical.
Before menopause, I took a multivitamin with iron one day and the next day took a multivitamin without iron. I was eating a wide range of foods then (before MC) and I always tested well in my iron level. Now that I'm in menopause, I don't take any iron supplements even though I only eat one green vegetable every three days. I haven't noticed any deficiency in my iron readings.
To ease your mind, you could calculate what nutrients you are getting by either using a software program or creating a spreadsheet. I was able to see exactly which nutrients were deficient when I used a spreadsheet.
Of course, what we eat and what we absorb can be two different things, depending on where we are in our progress.
Gloria
Gabes advice sounds logical.
Before menopause, I took a multivitamin with iron one day and the next day took a multivitamin without iron. I was eating a wide range of foods then (before MC) and I always tested well in my iron level. Now that I'm in menopause, I don't take any iron supplements even though I only eat one green vegetable every three days. I haven't noticed any deficiency in my iron readings.
To ease your mind, you could calculate what nutrients you are getting by either using a software program or creating a spreadsheet. I was able to see exactly which nutrients were deficient when I used a spreadsheet.
Of course, what we eat and what we absorb can be two different things, depending on where we are in our progress.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Brandy, I have not checked my iron levels as I have been post-menopausal since my 30's from a hysterectomy and wasn't too worried. I am now dealing with thyroid issues though and good iron levels are instrumental in achieving good results with the hormone meds. I plan to check it at my next labs but in the meantime am trying to do most of my cooking in cast iron. http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA364217 Deb
Black Strap Molasses is a natural iron booster.
1 tablespoon a day.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?dbid ... =foodspice
Dee~~
1 tablespoon a day.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?dbid ... =foodspice
Dee~~
"What the heart gives away is never gone ... It is kept in the hearts of others."
Hi everyone, thanks for the feedback!
I picked up some iron pills but as I expected I'm not doing so well on them. They are way too rough on my gut. Now I'm trying liquid iron, a German brand Floradix Floravital iron and herbs GF, SF and DF. That was the most basic formula I could pick up locally and I needed to get going with something.
Gabes------a question for you-----what time of day to you take your liquid iron? The instructions say to take it 30 minutes b/f a meal. That seems way too "rough" for my gut so I ignored the instructions and took the "shot" after my meal.
Dee--I'm picking up some of the black strap molasses tonight and will try it in my teas and also in the paleo muffins. THanks for the tip!
Deb or anyone else----can you use a cast iron fry pan on one of the ceramic flat top stoves? Of course my electric coil stove died 6 months before I got MC.
Gloria--thanks for the tips. I have a killer business trip in two weeks so I think I'm going to use the supplements plus food over the next two weeks to try to get my energy back then reevaluate after my business trip. My thought is after the business trip to supplement perhaps every other day or every third day depending on how I'm feeling. My body is telling me to try to get as much iron through food as I can so I'll have to research the iron rich foods. I picked up 7 steaks and 3 pounds of ground meat at my country butcher yesterday.
Brandy
I picked up some iron pills but as I expected I'm not doing so well on them. They are way too rough on my gut. Now I'm trying liquid iron, a German brand Floradix Floravital iron and herbs GF, SF and DF. That was the most basic formula I could pick up locally and I needed to get going with something.
Gabes------a question for you-----what time of day to you take your liquid iron? The instructions say to take it 30 minutes b/f a meal. That seems way too "rough" for my gut so I ignored the instructions and took the "shot" after my meal.
Dee--I'm picking up some of the black strap molasses tonight and will try it in my teas and also in the paleo muffins. THanks for the tip!
Deb or anyone else----can you use a cast iron fry pan on one of the ceramic flat top stoves? Of course my electric coil stove died 6 months before I got MC.
Gloria--thanks for the tips. I have a killer business trip in two weeks so I think I'm going to use the supplements plus food over the next two weeks to try to get my energy back then reevaluate after my business trip. My thought is after the business trip to supplement perhaps every other day or every third day depending on how I'm feeling. My body is telling me to try to get as much iron through food as I can so I'll have to research the iron rich foods. I picked up 7 steaks and 3 pounds of ground meat at my country butcher yesterday.
Brandy
Brandy, I know there have been discussions about cast iron on ceramic tops and also some iron disks you can buy to buffer them and the stovetop. I bought the disks when I had a ceramic top but didn't use cast iron much then. I think the main concern is the rough bottom on regular cast iron and I know of some people who have sanded them smooth to protect the stove. I currently have an induction stovetop which only works with cast iron or magnetic stainless steel. Because the top doesn't get hot (the vessel does) I usually put a paper towel between the pan and the stove top. It sure felt weird the first time I did that! Deb
Hi Deb13,
This was my iron lifestyle management plan:
1. ELIMINATE TEA, COLAS, ICED TEA WHEN EATING FOODS WITH IRON. TEA COLAS AND ICED TEA PREVENT IRON ABSORPTION OF FOOD. I THINK THIS IS WHY I GOT THE LOW IRON IN THE FIRST PLACE as I was pretty much drinking tea or iced tea all day. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT COFFEE--you'll have to googe this. I still have a cup of tea in the morning. If you drink tea, colas or iced tea don't drink them an hour before eating your iron enriched foods or two hours afterward.
2. I bought a 9" Lodge iron skillet from target on line. I use it pretty much every day. I have a ceramic cook top and no issues with scratching of the cooktop. I like it so much I'll probably get a bigger size.
Make sure to kind of scrape the bottom of your skillet when cooking with cast iron to get maximum absorption.
3. Google iron contents of meats and hone on the big guns. I think for me that meant red meat, shellfish like shrimp and scallops and dark meat chicken.
4. Liver--probably the best but I could never go there. I didn't know how to cook it as I've never eaten it in my life. I think in January I bought a chunk that is still in my freezer. The boyfriend
grew up on a farm in Iowa and his mother used to grind the liver and hide it in meatloaf and meatballs. There is some discussion on MDA about grind liver, freeze in 2 ounce meatball sizes and
thaw and mix a 2 ounce chunk with a pound of meat to hide the taste. I guess I'll try that eventually.
5. Blackstrap Molasses---My boyfriend got me something called "Slow As" unsulfured blackstrap molasses in my Christmas stocking. Is that funny or what. At first I added it to my black tea until I found out
black tea would stop absorption. I did the following: Used it as the sweetener in paleo muffins, I added it to herbal teas and I also just licked it off a tablespoon. If you add it to herbal teas or lick it off a
tablespoon suggest doing that immediately following a meal to prevent the sugar/glycemic rush. At first I was doing the herbal tea at 10:00 and 3:00 pm but it was too much of a sugar rush.
The flavor was not bad and I had no negative GI situations. Since blackstrap is non heme it helps to figure out some kind of vitamin c to have with it--maybe one strawberry?????
It could probably be used as some kind of marinade to barbecue chicken but I'm not that good of a cook to figure that out.
6. Google non heme iron sources....i.e. vegetables, figs, dates, raisins, nuts etc. The boyfriend and I learned that most of the non heme vegetable sources have 6% iron. He and I called these vegetables
6%ers. I think for about a 6 week period I only ate the 6%er vegetables and discontinued non iron veggies. I can't remember if nuts have iron but I know I made some trail mixes with chopped dates and
raisins and nuts because the dates and raisins have iron. Check out figs too. Again with figs, raisins and dates we can have issues due to the sugaryness.
7. Greens--the prewashed bags of greens in the produce section are easiest to manage. I'm not crazy about southern style greens although I made them a couple of times. I prefer Sicilian style greens--recipe from an ex boyfriend who had 4 Sicilian grandparents: Saute garlic and or a lot of onions in coconut oil or olive oil if you can tolerate the garlic and or onions. If not as an alternative fine mince chip an anchovy and saute in coconut or olive oil. The anchovy will melt away and provide a piquant flavor. Add your greens and stir, keep adding water as you cook so greens don't stick to bottom of pan. When done drizzle generously with more olive oil and salt and pepper. If you can tolerate squeeze lemon on top of greens. For the non mcers in the household add generous amounts of parmesan. I ate 1-2 servings of greens as part of iron management plan. The lemon is helpful, if you can tolerate because of the vitamin C thing. I've used this recipe with radish greens, turnip greens, beet greens, rutabaga greens, kale. I'm less crazy about collards and spinach.
Also I think beet greens and beets are very high in iron.
Within two weeks I definitely had increased brain clarity and less anger issues. Within 8-10 weeks I had significant improvements in energy. Now (unless I don't get enough sleep) I'm feeling pretty close to normal.
Best wishes, Brandy---keep us posted, Brandy
This was my iron lifestyle management plan:
1. ELIMINATE TEA, COLAS, ICED TEA WHEN EATING FOODS WITH IRON. TEA COLAS AND ICED TEA PREVENT IRON ABSORPTION OF FOOD. I THINK THIS IS WHY I GOT THE LOW IRON IN THE FIRST PLACE as I was pretty much drinking tea or iced tea all day. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT COFFEE--you'll have to googe this. I still have a cup of tea in the morning. If you drink tea, colas or iced tea don't drink them an hour before eating your iron enriched foods or two hours afterward.
2. I bought a 9" Lodge iron skillet from target on line. I use it pretty much every day. I have a ceramic cook top and no issues with scratching of the cooktop. I like it so much I'll probably get a bigger size.
Make sure to kind of scrape the bottom of your skillet when cooking with cast iron to get maximum absorption.
3. Google iron contents of meats and hone on the big guns. I think for me that meant red meat, shellfish like shrimp and scallops and dark meat chicken.
4. Liver--probably the best but I could never go there. I didn't know how to cook it as I've never eaten it in my life. I think in January I bought a chunk that is still in my freezer. The boyfriend
grew up on a farm in Iowa and his mother used to grind the liver and hide it in meatloaf and meatballs. There is some discussion on MDA about grind liver, freeze in 2 ounce meatball sizes and
thaw and mix a 2 ounce chunk with a pound of meat to hide the taste. I guess I'll try that eventually.
5. Blackstrap Molasses---My boyfriend got me something called "Slow As" unsulfured blackstrap molasses in my Christmas stocking. Is that funny or what. At first I added it to my black tea until I found out
black tea would stop absorption. I did the following: Used it as the sweetener in paleo muffins, I added it to herbal teas and I also just licked it off a tablespoon. If you add it to herbal teas or lick it off a
tablespoon suggest doing that immediately following a meal to prevent the sugar/glycemic rush. At first I was doing the herbal tea at 10:00 and 3:00 pm but it was too much of a sugar rush.
The flavor was not bad and I had no negative GI situations. Since blackstrap is non heme it helps to figure out some kind of vitamin c to have with it--maybe one strawberry?????
It could probably be used as some kind of marinade to barbecue chicken but I'm not that good of a cook to figure that out.
6. Google non heme iron sources....i.e. vegetables, figs, dates, raisins, nuts etc. The boyfriend and I learned that most of the non heme vegetable sources have 6% iron. He and I called these vegetables
6%ers. I think for about a 6 week period I only ate the 6%er vegetables and discontinued non iron veggies. I can't remember if nuts have iron but I know I made some trail mixes with chopped dates and
raisins and nuts because the dates and raisins have iron. Check out figs too. Again with figs, raisins and dates we can have issues due to the sugaryness.
7. Greens--the prewashed bags of greens in the produce section are easiest to manage. I'm not crazy about southern style greens although I made them a couple of times. I prefer Sicilian style greens--recipe from an ex boyfriend who had 4 Sicilian grandparents: Saute garlic and or a lot of onions in coconut oil or olive oil if you can tolerate the garlic and or onions. If not as an alternative fine mince chip an anchovy and saute in coconut or olive oil. The anchovy will melt away and provide a piquant flavor. Add your greens and stir, keep adding water as you cook so greens don't stick to bottom of pan. When done drizzle generously with more olive oil and salt and pepper. If you can tolerate squeeze lemon on top of greens. For the non mcers in the household add generous amounts of parmesan. I ate 1-2 servings of greens as part of iron management plan. The lemon is helpful, if you can tolerate because of the vitamin C thing. I've used this recipe with radish greens, turnip greens, beet greens, rutabaga greens, kale. I'm less crazy about collards and spinach.
Also I think beet greens and beets are very high in iron.
Within two weeks I definitely had increased brain clarity and less anger issues. Within 8-10 weeks I had significant improvements in energy. Now (unless I don't get enough sleep) I'm feeling pretty close to normal.
Best wishes, Brandy---keep us posted, Brandy
Thanks for the tips Brandy, I just picked up an iron supplement today and haven't opened it yet because I'm afraid of WD. I don't want to chance it. I only drink water, coffee, and almond milks. I've been cooking with cast iron for years. Adding the leafy greens would be easy to do. I was just reading up on the black strap molasses and would be willing to try that. Maybe I should give that a try first. I bought the supplement because I can't get in to see my endo until Aug. 9th. I told them I couldn't wait that long because I'm having a hard time just getting through the day. No luck, they put me on the cancellation list. My whole summer is going to be shot if I have to keep waiting for help but I guess I'm stuck.
I've stopped taking entocort entirely so am very aware of supplement risks. I was able to do ok ( nothing close to ideal) with skipping three days between the 3mg dose. I was going to bump it to four days but don't know if that makes sense or not. I've been on it since February of 2012 and just want to be off of it. I could be making a mistake since I'm still having so many other issues but I will see what happens.
My doctor scolded me for taking 4,000 ius of vit D before I had my lab work. After my numbers came back she humbly encouraged me to continue with what I'm doing.
I've stopped taking entocort entirely so am very aware of supplement risks. I was able to do ok ( nothing close to ideal) with skipping three days between the 3mg dose. I was going to bump it to four days but don't know if that makes sense or not. I've been on it since February of 2012 and just want to be off of it. I could be making a mistake since I'm still having so many other issues but I will see what happens.
My doctor scolded me for taking 4,000 ius of vit D before I had my lab work. After my numbers came back she humbly encouraged me to continue with what I'm doing.
I stopped taking Iron supplements (heme) back in March of 2013 when my ferritin score hit 47. As a non menstruating female it seemed weird to continue plus iron is one of those things you don't want to overdo. Anyways, yesterday my hemoglobin iron score was 10--should be at least a 12 according to Gyn PA. I'm back on the Proferrin ES. I still had 3/4 of a bottle in the cupboard. Gyn pa tested by skin prick and said I was low and needed to be supplementing but she said a blood draw would be more accurate. She wrote out a lab for bloodwork but I think I'll give it 6-8 weeks and get the blood drawn then.
Sheesh, it's always something.
I thought I was out of the woods----I might be one that needs to keep supplementing.
Now I'm off to go eat a burger.
Brandy.
Sheesh, it's always something.
I thought I was out of the woods----I might be one that needs to keep supplementing.
Now I'm off to go eat a burger.
Brandy.