Hi all,
I met with a strange but interesting nutritionist yesterday who suggested that I am suffering from a TH1-TH2 imbalance. I have not yet heard of this, and as I am still awaiting my MC book, I'm not sure if it's mentioned there or not. No matter. Just pre-apologizing if this is all old hat. Or debunked.
ANYhow, I bought some Agaricus, a mushroom to supposedly swing my balance from too much TH2 (allergy response) to more TH1 (pathogenic response). I've taken it yesterday and so far no ill effects, which is good right now.
He won me over on it with various clinical research articles. I linked one below. I think the blog articles I've linked are a good primer if you're interested in learning about this theory.
Take care. I am thinking of all of you. Every day is still a challenge but the silver lining in all this is that my attitude has never been this positive or relaxed. I am so grateful for my beautiful life, World, husband and everything in between.
Nancy
PartI
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2013/01/gues ... sease.html
PartII
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2013/01/3254.html
Article on Agaricus impact on mice intestinal epithelial lymphocytes
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2011/532180/
Interesting info on autoimmunity and TH1-TH2 balance
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
-
UkuleleLady
- Gentoo Penguin
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:45 pm
- Location: Texas
Interesting info on autoimmunity and TH1-TH2 balance
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. ~The Dalai Lama
Nancy,
I hesitated to submit this post because you're obviously in a very optimistic mood, and I feel like a heel for trying to paint a cloud into your beautiful blue sky, but I don't want to see your recovery derailed either, so please view this as simply my way of trying to point out that not all "strange but interesting" nutritionists are experts on dealing with MC. And I have a strong hunch that the nutritionists and dietitians who are members of this board will agree with me that MC changes most of the rules that they were taught when they were learning their specialty.
You won't find any discussion about the TH1/Th2 balance in the book, because the immune system is much more complex than can be explained by a simple Th1/TH2 "balance" theory. IMO (and this is strictly my unprofessional opinion), taking most of the items recommended in that article at the second link is usually a waste of time and money for most people who have MC. Yes, their attributes sound great, and many members here have tried to follow such programs, but in most cases they have been disappointed in the results. The only item I noticed in that article that has proven to be consistently helpful in treating MC, IBDs, and other autoimmune type issues in general, is vitamin D. YMMV.
And though it's true that some of the supplements recommended by naturopathic practitioners can be taken without adverse effects, many of them tend to go way overboard with their recommendations, and for most of us, the fewer such supplements we take, the less likely we are to jeopardize our recovery, and the faster we are likely to get our life back. With MC, less (variety) is almost always better, when it comes to deciding what to put in our mouth. There are exceptions to every rule, and for all I know, you might be an exception, but over the years I've shared in the trials and tribulations of many hundreds of MC patients as they made their journey from active MC to remission (and a few who were never able to achieve remission), and my opinions are based on those successes (and failures).
I'm not trying to discourage you from taking something that you feel is actually helping, but in general, trying new supplements/products/foods/drugs during the recovery phase of our treatment program can be extremely risky, because our digestive system is in a very unstable state when it's still hypersensitive due to the inflammation associated with this disease. Before you add something to your treatment program, please be sure that it is safe, and that you really have a need for it.
That said, it is indeed true that an anti-inflammatory extract of Agaricus has been demonstrated to significantly lower cytokine levels for Crohn's disease and UC, as can be seen in the research article at the following link. That doesn't mean that it will necessarily be beneficial for treating MC, but hopefully if it doesn't help, it won't hurt, either. Unfortunately, the research report doesn't indicate whether the patients' clinical symptoms actually improved in response to the treatment, which seems kind of odd, but maybe we're supposed to assume that to be the case, based on the reduction in calprotectin levels.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129005
Good luck with your treatment, and please keep us updated, because if you recover in record time, we may all want to try it.
Tex
I hesitated to submit this post because you're obviously in a very optimistic mood, and I feel like a heel for trying to paint a cloud into your beautiful blue sky, but I don't want to see your recovery derailed either, so please view this as simply my way of trying to point out that not all "strange but interesting" nutritionists are experts on dealing with MC. And I have a strong hunch that the nutritionists and dietitians who are members of this board will agree with me that MC changes most of the rules that they were taught when they were learning their specialty.
You won't find any discussion about the TH1/Th2 balance in the book, because the immune system is much more complex than can be explained by a simple Th1/TH2 "balance" theory. IMO (and this is strictly my unprofessional opinion), taking most of the items recommended in that article at the second link is usually a waste of time and money for most people who have MC. Yes, their attributes sound great, and many members here have tried to follow such programs, but in most cases they have been disappointed in the results. The only item I noticed in that article that has proven to be consistently helpful in treating MC, IBDs, and other autoimmune type issues in general, is vitamin D. YMMV.
And though it's true that some of the supplements recommended by naturopathic practitioners can be taken without adverse effects, many of them tend to go way overboard with their recommendations, and for most of us, the fewer such supplements we take, the less likely we are to jeopardize our recovery, and the faster we are likely to get our life back. With MC, less (variety) is almost always better, when it comes to deciding what to put in our mouth. There are exceptions to every rule, and for all I know, you might be an exception, but over the years I've shared in the trials and tribulations of many hundreds of MC patients as they made their journey from active MC to remission (and a few who were never able to achieve remission), and my opinions are based on those successes (and failures).
I'm not trying to discourage you from taking something that you feel is actually helping, but in general, trying new supplements/products/foods/drugs during the recovery phase of our treatment program can be extremely risky, because our digestive system is in a very unstable state when it's still hypersensitive due to the inflammation associated with this disease. Before you add something to your treatment program, please be sure that it is safe, and that you really have a need for it.
That said, it is indeed true that an anti-inflammatory extract of Agaricus has been demonstrated to significantly lower cytokine levels for Crohn's disease and UC, as can be seen in the research article at the following link. That doesn't mean that it will necessarily be beneficial for treating MC, but hopefully if it doesn't help, it won't hurt, either. Unfortunately, the research report doesn't indicate whether the patients' clinical symptoms actually improved in response to the treatment, which seems kind of odd, but maybe we're supposed to assume that to be the case, based on the reduction in calprotectin levels.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129005
Good luck with your treatment, and please keep us updated, because if you recover in record time, we may all want to try it.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex, I've been wondering exactly which daily supplements I should take....my nutritionist also has me taking some supplements from the health food store.
Before MC, I took multi / fish oil / calcium with D3....and sometimes vit C.
Now I'm taking various supplements that the nutritionist recommends for inflammation.
Thanks,
Terre
Before MC, I took multi / fish oil / calcium with D3....and sometimes vit C.
Now I'm taking various supplements that the nutritionist recommends for inflammation.
Thanks,
Terre
-
UkuleleLady
- Gentoo Penguin
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:45 pm
- Location: Texas
Thanks Tex! No clouds gathered here. I agree with your recommendation to take as few supplements as possible - if any - because my own intestines have been pretty beat up.
And the more reading I do, the more I find that, the immune system is so complex not even the experts have a good grasp of it, it seems.
I'm only taking a sublingual D, the agaricus in water (for now) and a sublingual B 12. So far so good. Oh, and of course entocort which I've been on thirty four days now.
I appreciate your reply as always!
And thanks for the article.
Nancy
And the more reading I do, the more I find that, the immune system is so complex not even the experts have a good grasp of it, it seems.
I'm only taking a sublingual D, the agaricus in water (for now) and a sublingual B 12. So far so good. Oh, and of course entocort which I've been on thirty four days now.
I appreciate your reply as always!
And thanks for the article.
Nancy
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. ~The Dalai Lama
Hi Terre,
Most people in the general population are anywhere from slightly low on vitamin D to deficient. Most people who have an IBD (including MC) are even less likely to have an adequate blood level of vitamin D because not only is a vitamin D deficiency associated with developing an IBD, but IBDs actually deplete the vitamin D level over time. Low vitamin D also tends to cause acid reflux/GERD, which is often associated with MC, and more than a few members have found that significant doses of vitamin D can actually help to control a GERD problem.
Therefore, most of us do better if we take a vitamin D supplement, usually somewhere in the 3,000–5,000 IU range. Some take more, and a few take less. The farther north we live, the more likely we are to need additional vitamin D. If you request a vitamin D blood test from your doctor, be sure that he orders the 25(OH)D test. It's also known as the 25 hydroxy D test. Some doctors order a different test (for vitamin D2), which is worthless because it doesn't test for the active form, which is vitamin D3. In general, all OTC vitamin D is D3, whereas prescription vitamin D is D2.
I live in Central Texas, and I'm currently taking 4,000 IU during the summer, and I kick that up to 5,000– 6,000 IU during the late fall, winter and early spring. My last blood test, which was done not quite 4 months ago, was 55 ng/ml. That's good (the normal range is 30-100 ng/ml), but I would like to see it a little higher, for increased disease resistance. That's why I haven't dropped my supplement level as much as I did last summer.
The body can store vitamin B-12 for up to 5 years, so most of us are not likely to run low, unless we continue to react for years. I did run low apparently, because I had significant neurological damage, probably due to untreated gluten sensitivity for too many years. So if we have been reacting for years, it's probably a good idea to take a vitamin B-12 supplement. And since we tend to have a malabsorption problem while we're reacting, a B-12 sublingual lozenge, designed to be dissolved under the tongue works as well as the injectible form, because it avoids the malabsorption problem. Sublingual supplements go straight into the bloodstream, through the mucosal tissues in the mouth. After I realized that I was apparently low on B-12, I used a daily sublingual lozenge that contained 1,000 mcg of methylcobalamin (the active form of B-12), and 400 mcg of folic acid, because an adequate supply of folic acid is essential before B-12 can be utilized by the body.
Outside of those 2, most other supplements can wait until after we are in remission. The fewer supplelments we take while we are still recovering, the fewer setbacks we seem to have, and the faster we tend to recover. After we are in remission, then we have plenty of time to experiment with adding additional supplements if we feel that we need them. The thing is that while we are in a flare, taking a number of supplements increases the risk of perpetuating the flare, and after we are in remission, we may not need any supplements, because our malabsorption problem will fade away as our intestines heal. For example, we have to be careful with fish oil, because it can cause D for many of us. After we are in remission, we're more likely to be able to handle it without problems. Recent research however, has cast some doubt on the wisdom of taking fish oil supplements, or eating oily fish. As "they" say, "more research needs to be done".
In retrospect, most members who have tried anti-inflammatory supplements while they were recovering, seem to have concluded that they mostly wasted their money, because few things seem to actually help (other than the diet), and some members have suffered setbacks, because they reacted adversely to the supplements. In general, the more supplements we take, the more ingredient lists we are exposed to (some of them long and complex), and the greater the risk that at least one or more of the ingredients will prevent us from reaching remission because we react to it. As ingredient lists grow longer, the risk of cross-contamination also grows exponentially. Because of that, for most of us, less is more, when treating MC.
Tex
Most people in the general population are anywhere from slightly low on vitamin D to deficient. Most people who have an IBD (including MC) are even less likely to have an adequate blood level of vitamin D because not only is a vitamin D deficiency associated with developing an IBD, but IBDs actually deplete the vitamin D level over time. Low vitamin D also tends to cause acid reflux/GERD, which is often associated with MC, and more than a few members have found that significant doses of vitamin D can actually help to control a GERD problem.
Therefore, most of us do better if we take a vitamin D supplement, usually somewhere in the 3,000–5,000 IU range. Some take more, and a few take less. The farther north we live, the more likely we are to need additional vitamin D. If you request a vitamin D blood test from your doctor, be sure that he orders the 25(OH)D test. It's also known as the 25 hydroxy D test. Some doctors order a different test (for vitamin D2), which is worthless because it doesn't test for the active form, which is vitamin D3. In general, all OTC vitamin D is D3, whereas prescription vitamin D is D2.
I live in Central Texas, and I'm currently taking 4,000 IU during the summer, and I kick that up to 5,000– 6,000 IU during the late fall, winter and early spring. My last blood test, which was done not quite 4 months ago, was 55 ng/ml. That's good (the normal range is 30-100 ng/ml), but I would like to see it a little higher, for increased disease resistance. That's why I haven't dropped my supplement level as much as I did last summer.
The body can store vitamin B-12 for up to 5 years, so most of us are not likely to run low, unless we continue to react for years. I did run low apparently, because I had significant neurological damage, probably due to untreated gluten sensitivity for too many years. So if we have been reacting for years, it's probably a good idea to take a vitamin B-12 supplement. And since we tend to have a malabsorption problem while we're reacting, a B-12 sublingual lozenge, designed to be dissolved under the tongue works as well as the injectible form, because it avoids the malabsorption problem. Sublingual supplements go straight into the bloodstream, through the mucosal tissues in the mouth. After I realized that I was apparently low on B-12, I used a daily sublingual lozenge that contained 1,000 mcg of methylcobalamin (the active form of B-12), and 400 mcg of folic acid, because an adequate supply of folic acid is essential before B-12 can be utilized by the body.
Outside of those 2, most other supplements can wait until after we are in remission. The fewer supplelments we take while we are still recovering, the fewer setbacks we seem to have, and the faster we tend to recover. After we are in remission, then we have plenty of time to experiment with adding additional supplements if we feel that we need them. The thing is that while we are in a flare, taking a number of supplements increases the risk of perpetuating the flare, and after we are in remission, we may not need any supplements, because our malabsorption problem will fade away as our intestines heal. For example, we have to be careful with fish oil, because it can cause D for many of us. After we are in remission, we're more likely to be able to handle it without problems. Recent research however, has cast some doubt on the wisdom of taking fish oil supplements, or eating oily fish. As "they" say, "more research needs to be done".
In retrospect, most members who have tried anti-inflammatory supplements while they were recovering, seem to have concluded that they mostly wasted their money, because few things seem to actually help (other than the diet), and some members have suffered setbacks, because they reacted adversely to the supplements. In general, the more supplements we take, the more ingredient lists we are exposed to (some of them long and complex), and the greater the risk that at least one or more of the ingredients will prevent us from reaching remission because we react to it. As ingredient lists grow longer, the risk of cross-contamination also grows exponentially. Because of that, for most of us, less is more, when treating MC.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Terre,
Be very careful with multivitamins especially, because most of them contain ingredients that can cause many of us to react. In most cases, it's much safer to wait until we are in remission before trying to take a multivitamin, because of that risk.
There have been many discussions here in the past about the calcium myth that's associated with osteoporosis. The primary cause of osteoporosis in this country at least, is untreated gluten sensitivity. People who live in countries where the most milk is consumed and the most calcium supplements are used, tend to have the highest rates of osteoporosis. So obviously a lot more is involved than just calcium, as far as bone health is concerned. Vitamin D, together with an adequate amount of magnesium seems to be the key to enable our body to utilize the calcium that's already in our diet. When we combine that with load-bearing exercise, we maximize our chances for optimum bone health. And of course, if we are sensitive to gluten, we have to absolutely avoid it if we intend to have healthy bones, because if we continue to allow even small amounts of gluten in our diet, osteoporosis is virtually guaranteed, in the long run.
In fact, recent research has shown that higher levels of calcium supplementation (increased blood levels of calcium) can lead to unnecessary cardiovascular risks. It's not that calcium is inherently bad, it's not — we have to have it. It's just not good to have too much of it in circulation in the blood at any one time. IOW, for anyone who takes a significant dosage (say, over 1,000 mg per day), it's probably a good idea to divide up calcium supplements into several separate doses at spaced-out intervals during the day. Here are some links to additional information that you may find to be helpful:
Magnesium Is Crucial for Bones
Osteoporosis Treatment
Tex
Be very careful with multivitamins especially, because most of them contain ingredients that can cause many of us to react. In most cases, it's much safer to wait until we are in remission before trying to take a multivitamin, because of that risk.
There have been many discussions here in the past about the calcium myth that's associated with osteoporosis. The primary cause of osteoporosis in this country at least, is untreated gluten sensitivity. People who live in countries where the most milk is consumed and the most calcium supplements are used, tend to have the highest rates of osteoporosis. So obviously a lot more is involved than just calcium, as far as bone health is concerned. Vitamin D, together with an adequate amount of magnesium seems to be the key to enable our body to utilize the calcium that's already in our diet. When we combine that with load-bearing exercise, we maximize our chances for optimum bone health. And of course, if we are sensitive to gluten, we have to absolutely avoid it if we intend to have healthy bones, because if we continue to allow even small amounts of gluten in our diet, osteoporosis is virtually guaranteed, in the long run.
In fact, recent research has shown that higher levels of calcium supplementation (increased blood levels of calcium) can lead to unnecessary cardiovascular risks. It's not that calcium is inherently bad, it's not — we have to have it. It's just not good to have too much of it in circulation in the blood at any one time. IOW, for anyone who takes a significant dosage (say, over 1,000 mg per day), it's probably a good idea to divide up calcium supplements into several separate doses at spaced-out intervals during the day. Here are some links to additional information that you may find to be helpful:
Magnesium Is Crucial for Bones
Osteoporosis Treatment
Study: Calcium Pills Double Heart Attack RiskSome people, especially women, take daily calcium supplement tablets to guard against bone loss. But new research suggests doing so doubles the chances of suffering a heart attack.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.