More Bad News About Probiotics — They Don't Work!

[tex]

Hi All,

Just as many of us have suspected, based on our own experiences, recent research has shown that most of the rosy claims about the benefits of probiotics are little more than hype. According to the study:

Probiotics failed to protect elderly patients against diarrhea related to antibiotics and Clostridium difficile infections, investigators reported.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/TheGuptaGui ... ease/40880

And this wasn't a small, insignificant study. It involved almost 3,000 subjects. I have never taken a probiotic, but I reckon that now I will stop recommending them for any and all purposes.

So another long-standing medical recommendation endorsed by both alopathic and naturopathic practitioners has fallen by the wayside. I feel gratified though, that this verifies our own experiences with priobotics. Of course, we have a few members who have had good experiences with probiotics, but unfortunately they are few and far between.

Tex

[desertrat]

Interesting. Not to be argumentative, but if this study was for adults older than 65, do you think that then also applies to younger people? I have been taking probiotics, and while I can't say they have helped, I can't say they haven't either. I'm wondering if your digestion is good, probiotics helps to keep it there, but if your digestion is compromised, probiotics don't help.

I have been on the fence whether to continue taking them.

Hmm...I hate studies. Do this...it helps, wait!... don't do that, not found effective. Sheesh.

Mandy

[Zizzle]

I share Mandy's concern. Although older people have less acid in their stomachs, which one might argue improves the chances of probiotics making their way to the intestines. I dunno anymore!!

[tex]

After the conclusions reached in that study, I would think that someone would be interested enough to do some serious trials with younger subjects, if for no other reason, just to get their name on an easy-to-do research study. Surely, with all the money being made off the sales of probiotic products these days, there should be plenty of research money available for the asking, and a huge incentive to prove that the products do indeed have some value. I'm guessing that there is enough research expertise around to allow someone to come up with a creative way to put a positive spin on the next project.

But that may not be an easy task, despite all the money available to promote it. This isn't the first negative news for treatments that utilize the manipulation of gut bacteria populations in order to attempt to restore digestive system health. The use of prebiotics by IBD patients was soundly discredited a couple of years earlier. From page 52 of my book:

Prebiotics, which are soluble fiber products that pass undigested through the stomach and small intestine, into the colon, where they are fermented by bacteria, include fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) and inulin fiber. The theory is that the fermentation of these items should help to feed beneficial bacteria and thereby help to reestablish healthy populations of beneficial gut bacteria. Unfortunately, no valid scientific research exists to show that prebiotics are any more likely to promote the growth of beneficial bacteria than pathogenic bacteria. In fact, a random, double blind trial, using FOS as a proposed treatment for Crohn’s disease, showed absolutely no benefits.15 Almost four times as many participants receiving FOS, compared with controls, withdrew from the trial before the end of the period. That implies a significant percentage of adverse results for the FOS group. Consequently, it should not be surprising that the use of prebiotics by someone with MC usually results in unpredictable effects at best, and undesirable effects at worst.

Where reference 15 is:

15. Benjamin, J. L., Hedin, C. R., Koutsoumpas, A., Ng, S. C., McCarthy, N. E., Hart, A. L., . . . Lindsay, J. O. (2011). Randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of fructo-oligosaccharides in active Crohn's disease. Gut, 60(7), 923–929. Retrieved from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21262918

I suspect that the handwriting is on the wall for other patient groups (age brackets) for which the use of probiotics is promoted, also. But as they always say, more research is needed (which, of course, can be literally translated to mean that no medical research can be trusted enough to assume that it is the final word on anything).

Tex

[Leah]

Hi Mandy. Do your own experiment and see what happens. probiotics always have made my symptoms worse, so I think at best, it doesn't hurt. If you stop taking them and you feel the same, why bother?

Leah

[Zizzle]

I wonder if this research applies to fermented foods, which seem to have way more bacteria than probiotic supplements, and perhaps more variety of bacteria?

[Gloria]

Hmmm. Interesting study. I've been taking Culturelle almost as long as I've had MC and like others, have never been sure of the results.

Following Pat's post, I ordered some DF yogurt culture and successfully made yogurt using almond milk last week. I've been eating 1/2 cup almost every day along with cooked frozen mango chunks. I'd like to replace Culturelle with the yogurt. The yogurt is basically free (once the culture is purchased) because I use my excess homemade almond milk to make it. I've missed eating yogurt and have been enjoying it again. So far, it seems to be settling OK in my gut.

The recipe I use is in several places on the Internet. The next time I make it I'm going to add Instant Clear Jell to the milk before I let it ferment. The texture is slightly thicker than milk, but I like it thicker.

I'm flying to Utah Saturday to babysit for my granddaughter next week while she waits for kindergarten to start the following week. I'll be in transit for 12 hours coming home because I wanted a cheap fare. I'm a little nervous about the meal situation. I'm dehydrating a lot of mangoes just in case. I'll be visiting a friend during my 4 1/2 hour layover, so that will be nice. I won't be on the board much when I'm gone. I hope to catch up when I get back.

Gloria

[tex]

Gloria,

Now that your diet is so extensively refined, have you ever experimented with avoiding all probiotics and fermented foods for at least 2 or 3 weeks to see how your gut bacteria balance might settle out and/or affect the status of your MC symptoms? I can't help but wonder if the probiotics and fermented foods that you continue to ingest may be having a (slight) negative effect on the inflammation level in your gut.

When a system (whether a mechanical system or a digestive system, or whatever) is near the point of stability/instability, all it takes is the slightest negative effect to tip the balance the wrong way, in some cases.

You can even think of it in mathematical terms if you prefer, because this can be expressed in complex mathematical equations, but when a slight perturbation is introduced into a system that is barely maintaining stability, instability is a very likely result.

I may be all wet, but when you wrote, " I've been taking Culturelle almost as long as I've had MC and like others, have never been sure of the results.", my jaw dropped. I didn't realize that you have been taking it continuously.

Mast cells are the loaded guns in the inflammation war, and they are definitely influenced (by means of various mechanisms) by both gut bacteria and by fermented foods. Anyway, that remark raised a huge red flag in my foggy brain. Here's why:

Similar to my ability to tolerate casein without apparent clinical symptoms (while producing antibodies to it), you may be able to tolerate Culturelle (or whatever), but that doesn't mean that you might not be producing antibodies to it. Wherever there are antibodies, there will be some level of inflammation induced by a corresponding immune system event, though of course the results of the inflammation will obviously be sub-clinical if clinical symptoms are absent. And while a sub-clinical level of inflammation may not trigger a reaction, it may keep the immune system response at a level just below the threshold at which a reaction is triggered (as long as budesonide is used), so that if anything is changed (such as diet changes, or discontinuing the use of budesonide, for example), remission will fail.

Do you see what I'm saying, or have I done a poor job of explaining it?

Tex

[dfpowell]

Tex,

Thanks for the explanation, you gave me a reason not to add probiotics. I have been doing fine without them but had been wondering if I needed to add them to my diet.

Thanks,

[Gloria]

Hi Tex,

I have avoided all fermented foods for several years. I should have known that as soon as I've found a new food using familiar ingredients (yogurt), you'd kill the idea.

I've also gone without Culturelle for several days, primarily because I've run out of it. Sure, I could go without the Culturelle for a couple of weeks. I don't recall any improvement when I was off of it before.

I'm actually doing pretty well lately. I had to give up broccoli, my last green vegetable because I was beginning to have D after eating it. Now I'm down to one vegetable: cauliflower. I started making the yogurt because I'm concerned about my potassium level now that I'm no longer eating any greens. I'm increasing my mango intake to help increase it, too. I've also begun taking two potassium supplements on some days.

I'm at the Family History Library right now and have to wait for my daughter to pick me up and take me shopping for my meat. I won't be eating any yogurt while I'm here because I can't make it.

I do understand and appreciate that you are trying to help me.

Gloria

[Zizzle]

Yogurt manufacturers and the University researchers they hire think probiotics are good for something...

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/ch ... 45617.aspx

UCLA researchers now have the first evidence that bacteria ingested in food can affect brain function in humans. In an early proof-of-concept study of healthy women, they found that women who regularly consumed beneficial bacteria known as probiotics through yogurt showed altered brain function, both while in a resting state and in response to an emotion-recognition task.

[tex]

Yogurt manufacturers and the University researchers they hire think probiotics are good for something...

Well, probiotics are certainly good for producing profits for yogurt manufacturers and paying jobs for university researchers.

The discovery that changing the bacterial environment, or microbiota, in the gut can affect the brain carries significant implications for future research that could point the way toward dietary or drug interventions to improve brain function, the researchers said.

The hype found in that quote taken from the article reminds of the claims that manufacturers (and their hired researchers) make about prebiotics.

Prebiotics promoters have claimed for years that using prebiotics can boost health by feeding "good" bacteria so that they can outcompete the "bad" bacteria. In reality (according to independent research results), prebiotics either help both types of bacteria equally, or they give the bad bacteria an unfair advantage. At any rate, the claims made by the promoters of prebiotics are nothing but hype — merely wishful thinking.

The same wishful thinking can be seen in the quote above. Now why would they expect that fumbling around with something that they know very little about (namely how gut bacteria actually interact with the human body), will somehow magically result in improved brain function, rather than diminished brain function? The answer is, "They don't know". It's merely pie-in-the-sky thinking. Actual results of such attempted manipulation are almost certainly likely to be biased on the negative side. That game is called "fishing for more research money", and that's one thing that successful researchers learn to excel in. And someone will surely pour money into such research, because the dream of getting something for almost nothing never dies.

Tex