Partial elimination or nuclear Autoimmune Protocol??

[Zizzle]

I read several recipes online, then adapted my own to make it AIP-friendly (no nightshade spices):

3 lbs of grass-fed bottom round/rump roast (other lean cuts might be better). Freeze for an hour and slice in 1/8-1/4 inch wide slices. Marinate overnight in mixture of 1/4 cup apple cider vinegar, 3/4 cup water, and plenty of salt, pepper, garlic and onion powder, oregano, teaspoon of raw sugar (approximate).

Pat dry and lay slices on bakers drying racks over cookie sheets in oven. Bake at 150 degrees for 8 hours.

[Zizzle]

Now that I've been drinking at least a cup a day of water kefir for 6 days, I decided to read up on it! LOL. I had no idea how powerful it could be. Some people give it to kids and babies by the tablespoonful and get amazing results. No wonder norman went away temporarily, but not in a bad way, just loose. I thought it was all the darned vegetables, greens, and lack of starch on this AIP diet. Now I think it was my body adjusting to the kefir bacteria and yeasts. I've had great luck with the cultures I ordered. They made textbook looking/tasting water kefir from day 1, and I produce 4 cups every 48 hours. Despite the use of cane sugar to make it, I have a very good feeling about this. And the daily bubbly/lightly sweet drink (tastes like hard apple cider) satisfies my mild cravings for something sweet.

This sketchy article really got me thinking. Could gluten intolerance in fact be caused by our lack of certain bacteria that break down gliadin?

http://www.newswire.net/newsroom/pr/000 ... itity.html

I'm not saying I want to eat gluten again, but if we manage to load up on beneficial probiotics, might we be more protected against the effects of cross-contamination?

[gluten]

Hi Zizzle, I just read a study from Sweden that linked the use of antibiotics with gluten intolerance and celiac disease. Jon

[tex]

Zizzle,

You're missing the main point. Here is why that line of reasoning is faulty:

Gluten intolerance is not caused by a lack of any bacteria. It's caused by the inability of the human digestive system to digest gluten. We're unable to digest gluten because our digestive system was not designed to digest gluten. If the human digestive system had been designed to digest gluten, it would produce the enzymes necessary to break down the peptides contained in gluten. Since it does not produce those enzymes, it's quite clear that gluten was never intended to be a part of our menu. Dr. Fasano's research proving that gluten causes everyone (not just celiacs) to have increased intestinal permeability is proof that our digestive system was not designed to digest gluten.

The premise that we should rely on symbiotic bacteria to digest gluten for us is convoluted thinking. Why would anyone think that it would be a good idea to try to force the human digestive system to accept gluten? That would only be a valid concept if we were starving, and wheat was abundant. And that's exactly why humans first started to add wheat to their diet, roughly 10,000 years ago. Because human population increases had resulted in a scarcity of wild game animals, many people were starving, and wheat could be produced in abundant quantities. So under those conditions, eating wheat appeared to be a no-brainer.

And our species has been paying the price for that indiscretion ever since, because that was the genesis of many diseases, including cancer. Cancer did not exist prior to the addition of grains to the human diet.

What puzzles me is why so many people continue to search for ways to force the human body to accept gluten as a source of food, when that is clearly contraindicated. What is it about wheat that gives it the same captivating powers as the sirens of Greek mythology? Why does logic go out the window, when wheat enters the picture?

After careful study, I think I have figured out the answer — obviously wheat must contain a powerful aphrodisiac. How else could it consistently have the power to overrule logical thinking for so many people?

Tex

[Gloria]

What puzzles me is why so many people continue to search for ways to force the human body to accept gluten as a source of food, when that is clearly contraindicated.

I think it's because all, or nearly all, fast food and processed food contains gluten, and people don't have the time or the inclination to spend hours cooking.

I ate my one "away from home" meal on the plane today: turkey on corn tortillas. I'm travelling again 4 hours to the state capitol tomorrow and will eat another meal away from home. I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a different meal. It looms as a constant problem when I leave home. DH, of course, isn't the slightest concerned, just as he had no concerns about getting a meal at the airport for the flight home. He ate gluten of course, in the form of Panini bread. That's why there's an infatuation with gluten. It's a great convenience food in many forms, and it tastes good.

Gloria

[tex]

That's why there's an infatuation with gluten. It's a great convenience food in many forms, and it tastes good.

I can certainly understand that, when we're talking about people who do not get sick from eating gluten, but what absolutely amazes me is the way that people who get sick from eating it, and who know that it causes long-term damage to their health (not the least of which is an increased risk of developing non-Hodgkin's lymphoma), continue to search for ways to force their body to accept it.

Am I the only one who views that as irrational behavior?

Tex

[Zizzle]

I'm with you Tex. There are no crusty baguettes in my future. But I do think we need to recognize that much of our digestion is done by microbes, so logic would tell us, if we lack certain microbes, we will have trouble digesting the foods they help us process.

Which leads me to another question. I was reading about the hundreds of possible bacteria and yeast strains in water kefir, and noticed sachromyces cereviciae (probably misspelled) is a prominent mention. If I tested reactive to yeast on Enterolab, does that mean this yeast is a friend or foe? Isn't SV implicated in Crohns pathogenesis too?


http://www.keysands.com/water-kefir-strains/

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/water- ... eria-yeast

[tex]

Hi Zizzle,

Yes, I agree that there are certain bacteria that can make the digestion of certain foods easier, or enhance our ability to utilize the nutrients that they contain, but that's not the same as not being able to digest those foods unless a certain type of bacteria is present.

The EnteroLab yeast test does indeed check for antibodies to Sacharromyces cerevisiae. So if you tested positive to antibodies to that yeast, theoretically at least, unless you developed a tolerance for it, it could cause you to react.

As you are probably aware (since I've mentioned this numerous times), most of us apparently develop a tolerance for S. cerevisiae after we reach remission. That means that we still produce antibodies, but we show no clinical symptoms (suggesting that the antibodies may cease to trigger subsequent immune system inflammatory events).

And yes, S. cerevisiae is also implicated in Crohn's disease. In fact, the presence of anti-S. cervisiae antibodies can usually be used to differentiate between Crohn's disease and UC. It's commonly associated with celiac disease, and it's even claimed to be a marker of "IBS".

Tex

[Zizzle]

Interesting. Well, given how well I'm tolerating the mega-doses of probiotics and yeast in my kefir water, I'm gonna assume I'm in the clear, OR my kefir grains don't have much S Cerevisiae in them...

[Zizzle]

Stupid, stupid, STUPID. I cheated on my autoimmune paleo diet in small ways (or so I thought), and I'm paying a price.

Friday night I went out for drinks and dinner with dear old friends to a Mexican restaurant with a GF menu. Had 2 hibiscus margaritas (I almost ever drink now), and ate brussel sprouts (fine), a grilled avocado topped with a little tomato, and guacamole with assorted color jalapenos and tomatoes diced in (nightshade prohibition, and moderate reactivity to avocado based on MRT). I also ate a rice milk and cinnamon popsicle. Had mild D the next day, but nothing serious. But my rash woke up - deeper pink, more itchy, some spreading.

2 nights ago, my husband made brussel sprouts with bacon and I ate it, despite cutting out pork due to MRT results. My rash is angrier now. Of course I also spent time outdoors over the weekend getting some sun on my face and neck (rash is very photosensitive).

SO...I have no idea which trigger woke up my rash. The rash is still much better than before, but I have to stop sabotaging my road to remission. I need to do better and only allow one possible trigger at a time!!

I still don't have D, in fact I feel full and bloated much of the time, presumably from the water kefir. I hope things normalize soon.

[Leah]

It's so hard to be perfect with such a restrictive diet when you have an active social life. I hope it calms down soon.
Leah

[tex]

I need to do better and only allow one possible trigger at a time!!

I realize how boring a rigorous, very restrictive diet tends to be, and how it throws a huge wet blanket on social events, but if you are really serious about getting rid of that rash, you are going to have to buckle down and follow that diet every minute of the day, 24x7, or (you realize as well as I do) you are never going to get rid of it. Anything less than 100 % dedication to the task is not acceptable. Is it really worth throwing away all that hard work and the sacrifices that you have made all week long, week after week, just so you can enjoy a few minutes, or an hour or two of self-gratification on a regular basis?

When you cheat on that diet, you are not cheating the government, or the devil, or some stranger — you are cheating yourself and your family out of your future health and well-being. You are mortgaging your future happiness for a moment of fun now. By compromising your treatment, you are not just perpetuating that rash, you are making it more resistant to treatment. And as your resistance decreases, it's robustness increases.

I apologize for the lecture, but I would really, really love to see you defeat all your health issues, and put them behind you, so that you can get on with your life. We all want what is best for you, and that vision does not include autoimmune issues.

You have a great future — but that future will be much more enjoyable without chronic urticaria, and all the baggage that comes with it. To validate that future though, you need to allow not "one possible trigger at a time", but zero possible triggers, at any time. You and your family deserve nothing less.

Tex

[gluten]

Hi, After not having rice milk for several days it took only ten minutes to get a severe gut reaction from an 8oz, cup. Rice milk is the starch from rice and since it feeds the " Klebsiella Bacteria " that lives in our gut. It was interesting when I would stop because I ran out I would get a gnawing feeling about the same time every day. There is alot of very interesting information about that type of bacteria that we all have. Jon

[Leah]

Interesting. I eat rice all the time.

[Zizzle]

Leah, I craved rice and grains for about a week. Now I could care less that I'm not eating them.