sputtering/gassy stools

Post by **tex** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:48 am

Linda,

The ones I have are 600 mg tablets, sold under the Nature's Plus label. The manufacturer is Natural Organics Laboratories, Inc., of Amityville, New York. The Betaine HCL is made from beet molasses, and the other ingredients are:

Microcrystaline cellulose, stearic acid, magnesium sterate, pepsin, bromelain, pancreatin, papain, silica, and pharmaceutical glaze.

If pork was a +2 for you, the small amount in those tablets may not be a problem, depending on how many you need to use. Not counting the glaze, pepsin is listed as inert ingredient number 4, out of 8, so it's not a high-volume ingredient.

I wouldn't want to try to predict whether or not pepsin might be a problem for you, though. Pepsin is a natural enzyme, produced by the stomach, and it's purpose is to partially digest proteins, to turn them into peptides. The reason why pig stomachs are used as a source of pepsin supplement is almost surely because the pig's digestive system is extremely similar to the human digestive system. In fact, various parts are sometimes successfully used as transplants into human digestive systems. That suggests that porcine pepsin is probably very, very similar to human pepsin, but I'm just guessing here, of course.

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:10 am

Thanks Jean, for the info.

Tex....I'll check to see if there is a website for the supplement you recommended.

I only took 1/2 Allegra yesterday, and none today. I'm trying a homeopathic remedy for allergies today. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this helps.
I will order the Betaine HCL, too, as I think that has always been an issue for me.

Thanks!

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:35 am

We sound very similar in our morning habits. I always scratch my head trying to figure out why I would have so much gas. I started take HCL again with my heavier meals. I tried it before and didn't notice anything big so I stopped. Lately, I've been getting mild stomach aches again so I started again. It seems to help the stagnant feeling of food sitting in my stomach. I just looked at mine and noticed "pharmaceutical glaze" in the other ingredients. Need to check up on that one.........

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:36 pm

Tex,

The Freeda Betaine HCL lists these ingredients:

Calcium 40 mg
Betain HCl 300 mg

Other ingredients: Cellulose, calcium stearate

The bromelain and papain in thNature's Plus are papaya & pineapple, both were yellow for me on MRT. That's why I had some trouble with my Pure Encapsulations enzymes, and had to stop using them for now. So, maybe I should just try the Freeda and see what happens....

On another note, the rumbling / gas has eased since stopping Allegra. But, it's been replaced by bloating. Does the antihistamine help with that ...confused?

Deb....how are you feeling these days?

Post by **tex** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:03 pm

Linda wrote:So, maybe I should just try the Freeda and see what happens....

I agree. If it seems to help (or if you get a warm sensation after taking it), but you seem to still have problems whenever a meal contains a lot of protein, then you may need to consider trying to find a source of pepsin to add to it.

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:12 pm

Tex
I was editing my message when yours arrived moments ago.
Is there a connection between antihistamines & bloating, or is this two different issues?

Post by **tex** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:01 pm

Linda,

I apologize for the confusion. When I mentioned in my first response in this thread that antihistamines cause gas, I assumed that statement also implied that they also cause bloating (since bloating is the result of gas). I suppose it's possible that they might also help to reduce bloating (by reducing mast cell activity and thereby improving digestion), but I'm not sure how significant that might be.

If you are still having bloating even though you are not taking any antihistamines, then the current bloating is obviously due to some other cause. I'm guessing that it's due to poor digestion as a result of insufficient stomach acid, but it could also be due to a food sensitivity, more sugar than you are currently capable of digesting, or fiber. Any food that is incompletely digested tends to ferment, and that produces gas/bloating.

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:21 am

Tex,

I am trying to understand why last night was so different. When I only took 1/2 Allegra two days ago, I had a little bloat, and when I didn't take any Allegra I had big bloat. I also had stomach/digestive tract pains & tightness all through the night last night. I ate the same things I always do, yesterday....took a Vit D (it's only the 3rd time I've taken it)....there is no logical answer for the discomfort except linking it to Allegra, or as you said, to insufficient stomach acids....but I did not have the bloating until two ago when I messed with the Allegra dosages....I was just experiencing rolling/rumbling and gassy stools.

The stools are not with mucus, and I am not going as many times as I was, so I don't think it's a food reaction. I don't eat any fruits/veggies, so I don't believe it is a sugar/fiber issue.

I just don't want another night like last night. We have a local GNC (health store), so I will go and get a Betaine HCL today to try. I was going to order from the internet, but it would take longer to receive it since it's Friday already.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Post by **tex** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:11 am

Linda,

Considering your symptoms in response to your antihistamine "experiments", it appears that antihistamines may have the ability to suspend or entrap digestive system gasses in stool (thus causing "gassy" BMs). And of course this carries the gas out of the system, which minimizes bloating. When an antihistamine is absent, the gasses will remain free to collect in areas or "pockets", where they normally accumulate whenever bloating is a problem.

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:47 pm

Tex,

It is mind boggling, and your assumption may be correct. I guess time will tell.

I could not find Betaine HCL in my small town! I will need to order it. :(

I just got blood work done this week and the results are:

amylase-107 (25-115)
ferritin-30.5 (8-252)
iron-124-(50-175)
lipase 155-(73-393)
hemoglobin-11.9 (12-16)
BUN- 20.7 (7.8-18)

Does the amylase show that I do have some enzymes working for me?

Thanks! :)

gluten · Post by **gluten** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:02 pm

Hi Linda, I buy HCL Plus from Trace Elements online. Supplement facts, Betaine [as betaine hydrochoride] 324mgs, Pepsin [1.3000] 130mgs., Ox bile extract 50mgs. The product contains no wheat,soy,alfafa,milk or corn allergens and no salt, sugar, starch, wax, artifical colors, flavors or preservatives. Jon

Post by **tex** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:26 pm

Linda wrote:Does the amylase show that I do have some enzymes working for me?

Yes, but remember that stomach enzymes typically require a very acidic environment, in order to perform normally.

Unless you have a previously-known kidney issue, the elevated BUN result is probably due to the higher-than-normal protein content of your diet (in case your doctor brings up that out-of-range BUN result).

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:27 pm

Thanks Jon.... I tried to Google Trace Elements & couldn't find the company. Do you have the website?

Tex, The doc was supposed to call me back today, but didn't. I don't have a kidney condition, but I do eat meat for half my calories daily, so that must be the explaination.

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:24 am

Tex,

I have been researching different manufacturers of Betaine HCL w/pepsin, and some of them say that if you can not tolerate porcine, you should not take this product. My question is this....wouldn't the HCL acid also take care of the protein to some extent? I'm leaning towards getting the betaine without the pepsin, so as not to upset the apple cart (my system is slowly healing on a very regimented diet of 7 foods). Remember that I can't even tolerate my 1+ foods...potatoes, walnuts, cashews, let alone the 2+....pork, almonds, corn.

Just wondered if the HCL acid will help with protein digestion.

Thank you!

Post by **tex** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:31 am

Linda wrote:Just wondered if the HCL acid will help with protein digestion.

Sure. It should improve the digestion of most foods. With any luck at all, your stomach may be capable of producing enough pepsin to do the job. Remember that the recommendation to take pepsin along with betaine HCL is strictly the opinion of a single SCD Lifestyle blogger. For all we know, his "recipe" may not be a perfect fit for someone who has MC. Like him, I just thought that the additional pepsin might be a good idea for someone who is eating above-normal amounts of protein, but that's no reason to believe that pepsin supplementation is essential.

We have to remember that avoiding our food sensitivities trumps everything else in our treatment program, so I certainly agree with you that if you can't even tolerate any of your 1+ foods, then you surely should make a serious effort to avoid your 2+ foods. The lower pH that's promoted by the betaine HCL will make all of the enzymes that you do produce, much more effective, so from that perspective, yes, it will help with protein digestion. And lower pH may also help to promote the production of digestive enzymes, since lower pH is essential for activating them.

Here's the way it works: When food is ingested, the vagus nerve sends signals to the stomach that prompts the release of both gastric acid (hydrochloric acid), and pepsinogen (the precursor form of pepsin). The hydrochloric acid lowers the pH, and that triggers the conversion of inactive pepsinogen into active pepsin, which then facilitates the breakdown of the molecular bonds in the ingested food, so that the long amino acid chains are broken down into peptides.

In order for pepsin to become activated, the pH has to be between 1 and 4.5, and generally speaking, the lower the pH, the faster the conversion will take place. If the pH ever rises above 7 (the point of neutral pH), the pepsin will become permanently deactivated. That's why people who have MC (and probably everyone else, for that matter) should never take a PPI, and why they should also be cautious about taking an H2 type antihistamine, and/or other antacids.

As always, you're most welcome,
Tex