Hi, I am a new member here as of today. I was diagnosed with CC two years ago. I had a question regarding intestinal permeability testing. I ordered the Enterolab test for the food sensitivities and also came across the Genova Lab test for intestinal permeability. I was wondering if anyone has taken this test (the Genova Lab one) or what you think about it? As far as a little background on myself, as I said I was diagnosed two years ago with CC. Since I have been able to control well with Immodium and a fiber supplement I haven't given it much thought since then. However over the past six months I had two doctors (one a gynecologist and the other a doctor of Osteopathy) both mentioning about trying to go gluten free and one making the comment about leaky guy syndrome. When I heard that, I became more involved in finding out more about my condition. The thought of not really addressing my condition other than to mask the symptoms, when in reality I could be harming myself by basically doing nothing about it made me want to take a more active role. I just finished reading Wayne's book and that is how I came to this site. Very interesting to read about the link to anxiety/stress also. I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder many years prior to that and it never occurred to me that there could be a link.
A second question is about the yeast test available at Enterolabs. The information on this test from their website makes it sound more like it would be for someone with Crohn's disease. I watched a Dr. Oz episode awhile back on yeast overgrowth and how common it is, so I wasn't sure if that was common with MC. I didn't order that particular test but I thought I would ask if you thought it was a good idea to do that one at some point.
Thanks,
Kim
Intestinal Permeability Test
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Kim,
My integrative medicine doc ordered the Genova Complete Stool Analysis and the Intestinal Permeability Screen (blood test) on me. Somehow insurance covered most of it! My permeability score was really bad...29, 32? I can't remember, but he said priority 1 was healing my gut and staying 101% gluten free.
My integrative medicine doc ordered the Genova Complete Stool Analysis and the Intestinal Permeability Screen (blood test) on me. Somehow insurance covered most of it! My permeability score was really bad...29, 32? I can't remember, but he said priority 1 was healing my gut and staying 101% gluten free.
1987 Mononucleosis (EBV)
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
Hi Kim,
Welcome to our internet family. If you've been able to control your CC symptoms with Imodium and fiber, you are much more fortunate than most of us. If you are able to even tolerate a significant amount of fiber, that suggests that you may not even have any food sensitivities. Fiber is like a laxative for most of us, before we are able to recover. I keep thinking that somewhere in the world, there exists an MC patient who does not have food sensitivities, but so far, I haven't encountered that individual.
It's certainly possible that you may be a candidate, though. And if that's true, then you probably would not have a leaky gut. By contrast, virtually all of the rest of us do indeed have increased intestinal permeability. From page 212 of the book:
Therefore, if you have been able to control CC without making any diet changes, you have either developed a tolerance for all of your food sensitivities, or you do not have any food sensitivities. And since the severity of clinical symptoms is connected with the degree of intestinal permeability, you would have to have significant symptoms, if you had a significant level of intestinal permeability (unless you have developed a tolerance to all your food sensitivities).
IMO The EnteroLab tests will tell you whether or not you have the leaky gut syndrome. If you have any food sensitivities, then you definitely have increased intestinal permeability. If you do not have any food sensitivities, then you almost surely do not have a leaky gut, either. Of course the Genova Lab test for intestinal permeability would be specific, so it should be even more definitive.
We could learn a lot from those test results. The question in my mind is, "Is it possible to have a leaky gut, if we have somehow developed a tolerance to all of our food sensitivities?" The answer to that question would be outside the scope of the research project that was cited.
Yeast sensitivity is somewhat common with MC. However, we have found by experience that when our disease is controlled by diet changes (by avoiding the other food sensitivities), then yeast sensitivity ceases to be a problem for virtually all of us. So we no longer have to be concerned about it.
Again, welcome aboard, and please feel free to ask anything.
Tex (Wayne)
Welcome to our internet family. If you've been able to control your CC symptoms with Imodium and fiber, you are much more fortunate than most of us. If you are able to even tolerate a significant amount of fiber, that suggests that you may not even have any food sensitivities. Fiber is like a laxative for most of us, before we are able to recover. I keep thinking that somewhere in the world, there exists an MC patient who does not have food sensitivities, but so far, I haven't encountered that individual.
It's certainly possible that you may be a candidate, though. And if that's true, then you probably would not have a leaky gut. By contrast, virtually all of the rest of us do indeed have increased intestinal permeability. From page 212 of the book:
I've added the red emphasis in both of these quotes. The conclusion of the research report listed as reference 27 says:Other research shows that everyone who has one or more food sensitivities has increased intestinal permeability.27 Furthermore, this research has demonstrated that a linear relationship exists between increasing intestinal permeability, and increasing severity of clinical symptoms, (Ventura et al., 2006). So clearly, food sensitivities are integrally connected with increased intestinal permeability. And although the inverse relationship hasn’t yet been verified by research, it is almost surely true that most people who have compromised gut permeability also have one or more food sensitivities.
27. Ventura, M. T., Polimeno, L., Amoruso, A. C., Gatti. F., Annoscia, E., Marinaro, M., . . . Francavilla, A. (2006). Intestinal permeability in patients with adverse reactions to food. Digestive and Liver Disease, 38(10), 732–736. Retrieved from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16880015CONCLUSIONS: The present data demonstrate that impaired intestinal permeability, measured in our conditions, is present in all subjects with adverse reactions to food. In addition, for the first time, we report a statistically significant association between the severity of referred clinical symptoms and the increasing of Intestinal Permeability Index. These data reveal that intestinal permeability is not strictly dependent on IgE-mediated processes but could better be related to other mechanisms involved in early food sensitisation, as breast-feeding, or microbial environment that influence the development of oral tolerance in early infancy.
Therefore, if you have been able to control CC without making any diet changes, you have either developed a tolerance for all of your food sensitivities, or you do not have any food sensitivities. And since the severity of clinical symptoms is connected with the degree of intestinal permeability, you would have to have significant symptoms, if you had a significant level of intestinal permeability (unless you have developed a tolerance to all your food sensitivities).
IMO The EnteroLab tests will tell you whether or not you have the leaky gut syndrome. If you have any food sensitivities, then you definitely have increased intestinal permeability. If you do not have any food sensitivities, then you almost surely do not have a leaky gut, either. Of course the Genova Lab test for intestinal permeability would be specific, so it should be even more definitive.
We could learn a lot from those test results. The question in my mind is, "Is it possible to have a leaky gut, if we have somehow developed a tolerance to all of our food sensitivities?" The answer to that question would be outside the scope of the research project that was cited.
Yeast sensitivity is somewhat common with MC. However, we have found by experience that when our disease is controlled by diet changes (by avoiding the other food sensitivities), then yeast sensitivity ceases to be a problem for virtually all of us. So we no longer have to be concerned about it.
Again, welcome aboard, and please feel free to ask anything.
Tex (Wayne)
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Kim, I know you will find lots of information and support here.
Kim. Sounds like you have some good docs. Kind of funny their specialty isn't related to the guts. All the GIs I've seen still don't recognize gluten as a problem or any of the others such as soy or dairy. It's more of an eye roll prefaced by the idea that it's a fad. Wrong......Welcome! You are in the perfect place to learn things that are life changing.
Deb
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead, where there is no path, and leave a trail.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
2007 CC
2013 thyroid cancer- total thyroidectomy
2013 Hashimoto's - numbers always "normal"
2017 Lyme's Disease
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead, where there is no path, and leave a trail.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
2007 CC
2013 thyroid cancer- total thyroidectomy
2013 Hashimoto's - numbers always "normal"
2017 Lyme's Disease
Welcome Kim,
I thought I would relate my experience because, three to four years before being diagnosed with CC I was able to use Imodium to control symptoms. Then 2 years ago, when Imodium was no longer working and my symptoms progressively got worse, I went in for a colonoscopy and received the diagnosis of CC. So I am wondering if it is early in the disease process for you, not to say that is will get worse. The Enterolab test should be helpful to see if you are reacting to any foods.
I thought I would relate my experience because, three to four years before being diagnosed with CC I was able to use Imodium to control symptoms. Then 2 years ago, when Imodium was no longer working and my symptoms progressively got worse, I went in for a colonoscopy and received the diagnosis of CC. So I am wondering if it is early in the disease process for you, not to say that is will get worse. The Enterolab test should be helpful to see if you are reacting to any foods.
Donna
Diagnosed with CC August 2011
Diagnosed with CC August 2011
Leah wrote:WELCOME KIM!
So, what happens if you stop taking Immonium? And how much do you take? Also, I'm curious as to why you take fiber? Like Tex said, it seems counterintuitive. Just curious.
Leah
Hi Leah,
I take 1/2 a dose just in the morning, so not much at all. I was told by the GI that the Fiber (citrucel brand or generic which has the ingredient Methylcelluose) was added to the regimen because it helps with bulking the stool. I know it sounds funny since you think of taking fiber for constipation but it works, at least for me right now. This is how he starts out his patients with CC before resorting to prescription medications. He did do a test for celiac prior to my colonoscopy and I know it was a highly sensitive test or something like that because it had to be sent to a special lab and was very expensive. I tested negative for that, but I am going ahead with the Enterolab test and the Genova Intestinal Permeability test also. If I stop taking Immodium (which I have tried several times over the past two years) the diarrhea comes right back.
Donna,
I went to the doctor pretty much as soon as the diarrhea was ongoing for several weeks. First I went to my regular GP and they did a stool test for parasites as we had put in a well recently and that came back negative. By the time I had gone to the GP for my followup after that test I had had ongoing diarrhea for over a month so they referred me to a GI. Interestingly I started having my CC symptoms four years after being diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and PTSD. I never realized there was a connection until I read Wayne's book. I agree that I am probably in the early stages of this disease. The thing that really woke me up to do more than just take a pill and eat whatever I wanted, was when the Gynecologist I went to and had never seen before mentioned trying gluten free diet to see if that helped my symptoms. We only had this conversation because I was seeing her for the first time and they needed to know all my medical history. She is a very young doctor so I wonder if that may be why she is more up on current research, which is interesting since her field is not GI. She even mentioned dairy because she said it was the second most common sensitivity in people. She also mention Leaky Gut, and THAT is what really got my attention. It was a turning point for me because it opened my eyes to the fact that I was doing damage to my body by potentially eating things that were not good for me and causing inflammation.
Tex,
Thank you so much for writing the book! I have to say I was impressed by all the research you put into this. I read it on my Kindle and unlike books, it does not use page numbers. It uses a percentage to show you how far you are in the book. Most books end at around 98% and then the references are after that point. Your book stopped at 80% and the remaining 20% were all of the references and studies that you used in writing the book. An incredible number of studies, etc were all listed! I would never have known that the book was not written by a doctor.
Thanks everyone else for your welcoming posts! I look forward to doing my Enterlab and Genova labs tests and will report back. I just received the Genova Lab test kit today and still waiting for the Enterolab to arrive.
Kim H.
Kim,
You're most welcome, and thank you very much for the kind words.
We'll be looking forward to learning from your test results.
Tex
You're most welcome, and thank you very much for the kind words.
We'll be looking forward to learning from your test results.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
-
UkuleleLady
- Gentoo Penguin
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:45 pm
- Location: Texas
Hi Kim,
My GI had me on fiber, too, back when he thought I had IBS -D. And it is commonly prescribed to ibs people to bulk up stools. I was also taking lomotil (prescription immodium) at that time, as everthing was running through all the time. And the pain and cramping.
When I had my colonoscopy and subsequent pathology report, it noted that my epithelium was denuded. No more fiber for me, it scrapes cells off of the intestinal lining. My cellular abnormalities need a chance to heal, not be scraped off all the time.
I am just putting this out there as food for thought. I don't understand why your doctor is holding back on other treatment options when youve had D for two years. Many of us have been prescribed budesonide to manage the inflammation crisis while we work out our food allergies to obtain long term remission.
Just food for thought, I wish you the best and I think doing enterolab is the way to go. Otherwise, I'd still be eating chicken and rice- neither of which I tolerate.
Sincerely,
Nancy
My GI had me on fiber, too, back when he thought I had IBS -D. And it is commonly prescribed to ibs people to bulk up stools. I was also taking lomotil (prescription immodium) at that time, as everthing was running through all the time. And the pain and cramping.
When I had my colonoscopy and subsequent pathology report, it noted that my epithelium was denuded. No more fiber for me, it scrapes cells off of the intestinal lining. My cellular abnormalities need a chance to heal, not be scraped off all the time.
I am just putting this out there as food for thought. I don't understand why your doctor is holding back on other treatment options when youve had D for two years. Many of us have been prescribed budesonide to manage the inflammation crisis while we work out our food allergies to obtain long term remission.
Just food for thought, I wish you the best and I think doing enterolab is the way to go. Otherwise, I'd still be eating chicken and rice- neither of which I tolerate.
Sincerely,
Nancy
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. ~The Dalai Lama
Leah,
You have to copy the complete address of the URL in order for a browser to find it. The domain is missing from that one (the "www.nameofthedomain.com", or "www.nameofthedomain.org", or "www.nameofthedomain.whatever", part of the address). Look at the URL for this page which is displayed in the window in your browser navigator bar (above), for example. It starts off with "www.perskyfarms.com/". If you were to copy that complete address and paste it in a post somewhere, any browser could find this page, but without the domain name, it doesn't know where to start looking.
Tex
You have to copy the complete address of the URL in order for a browser to find it. The domain is missing from that one (the "www.nameofthedomain.com", or "www.nameofthedomain.org", or "www.nameofthedomain.whatever", part of the address). Look at the URL for this page which is displayed in the window in your browser navigator bar (above), for example. It starts off with "www.perskyfarms.com/". If you were to copy that complete address and paste it in a post somewhere, any browser could find this page, but without the domain name, it doesn't know where to start looking.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Well now I feel really dumb. I think I have really screwed myself up. I have been "copying" so many things that people have posted here by copying to my desk top and then putting them in a file. I thought I would be able to send them to people, but it seems I can e-mail it, but they don't seem to have domains at the top.
Now what? I might have to wait until someone comes over that knows what they are doing.
Well Kim, it is an article written by Michael R. Eades MD and is called "a cautionary tale of Mucus Fore and aft"
Now what? I might have to wait until someone comes over that knows what they are doing.
Well Kim, it is an article written by Michael R. Eades MD and is called "a cautionary tale of Mucus Fore and aft"
Here is a link to that article:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/fibe ... e-and-aft/
Leah,
When you go to a link that someone posts, after you are at that page, bookmark the site in your browser (just click on "Bookmarks" in your menu bar, and then click on "Bookmark this Page" in the dropdown menu that appears. The URL will be added to your bookmarks.
Then, anytime you want to email that URL to someone, just click on "Bookmarks", then click on "Show all Bookmarks", and after you locate the bookmark or bookmarks in the list that you are interested in sending, you can just copy them and then paste them into your email.
If you want, you can organize links in your bookmarks by creating folders and naming them appropriately, and then dragging the links into those folders (or by copying and pasting them, if you want any of the links to appear in more than one folder).
Tex
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/fibe ... e-and-aft/
Leah,
When you go to a link that someone posts, after you are at that page, bookmark the site in your browser (just click on "Bookmarks" in your menu bar, and then click on "Bookmark this Page" in the dropdown menu that appears. The URL will be added to your bookmarks.
Then, anytime you want to email that URL to someone, just click on "Bookmarks", then click on "Show all Bookmarks", and after you locate the bookmark or bookmarks in the list that you are interested in sending, you can just copy them and then paste them into your email.
If you want, you can organize links in your bookmarks by creating folders and naming them appropriately, and then dragging the links into those folders (or by copying and pasting them, if you want any of the links to appear in more than one folder).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
-
UkuleleLady
- Gentoo Penguin
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:45 pm
- Location: Texas