Good bye to yogurt hello rice cereal - BAD CHOICE!! HELP!!

[barbiem]

I am at wit's end!! So I took out the homemade yogurt that I ferment for 24 hours to kill all lactose but because I was having issues with is (bump on gum) but no diarrhea, with the help of those here, I decided to remove it thinking it might be the last piece of the puzzle. So, I needed to add something else in or I would be starving so I though what about baby food - rice cereal to be exact!! Was sooo good and was nice to feel full for over 2 hours although yogurt always filled me up that long as well just not chicken and veggies lol.

Anyways, no bump on the gum from the rice cereal but severe diarrhea on now day 2 of it. I did have 2 bites off a strip of bacon last night too - could that be it?? maybe I should try rice cereal one more day and see what happens? I eat it for breaky and as a snack around 9 pm when I used to have my yogurt. I don't go right after but am back to where I go a lot in the morning before even eating but after I drink my first bit of water to take meds.

Question: should I keep going with it as wondering since being the first carb in over 6 months it might take adjusting or is this a sign no more rice.

I just need something to fill me up! And what is it with carbs and fat with me it sucks big time as I am literally starving!
thxs
babs

[wmonique2]

Babs,

Did you do the enterolab test to determine your sensitivities? and why are you on the SCD diet if you have LC? I don't get it...SCD is certainly not for us...you need to start eating...

Monique

[barbiem]

Hi Monique - I started SCD because I was informed about it from a friend whose son has colitis. I didn't know much about it at the time. So I just followed it and found some relief for sure. But now I can't eat anything and I don't know why. I am crying as I write this as I am completely frustrated and DONE! I get no help from the medical side of things they just want to cut out my colon because they say I have severe LC. I don't buy that but now I am beginning to wonder??

I get sooo excited when I get a chance to try something new and then very very depressed when it doesn't work.

You say I need to start eating -but what??? I keep trying new things outside of my basic chicken/beef/bison/green beans/carrots but I never do well. I will try the rice cereal one more day and not eat any bacon to see if it was the bacon. I just had some rice cereal for breaky and no bump on gum like the yogurt gives me but a stomach ache for sure - mild but there. No Diarrhea again yet but went a lot upon waking after the water. Will wait and see what happens. My geographical tongue is back too!
What else should I try to eat??
When you say SCD is not for us can you explain why??
thxs so much for listening and any advice

babs

[wmonique2]

Babs,

SCD has dairy and we don't do well on it. SCD doesn't have any carbs to speak of and I don't know how anyone can function without carbs. The brain only operates on carbs not protein and you'll feel very foggy and weak if you don't eat carbs.

Here's what most of us tolerate (I say most of us because many can't do all of this): A diet high in protein, very low fiber, no dairy, no soy, no gluten, protein like fish, chicken, pork, meat. Rice, sweet potatoes, red potatoes (no skins), very well cooked vegies like green beans, carrots, squashes. Fruits like apples, canned peaches, bananas (no skins or peels on anything) Cereals like GF rice or corn chex, GF oats. I make cream soups by pureeing the vegetables.

I had a panel done at Enterolab.com to find out which of all the above I should abstain from. And I follow a low histamine diet too since histamine is an issue for me. It seems to me that you need, foremost, to find out what your intolerances are with a fecal test (not a blood test) and then go from there. But you can start with the above mentioned, limit to few foods then add as you start feeling better. And take your meds. Less than a month on entecort is not enough, many of us stay a very long time on it. And many of us take mesalamine and/or elavil to control LC. I take mesalamine, elavil and an antihistamine. I am on year three of this ordeal and it has taken me 2 to figure it out. Frustration doesn't help, it just makes things worse. Take it easy on yourself. Cut yourself some slack, it is a serious condition that takes patience and love for yourself to get there. The board is always here to help you and Tex pretty much has all of the answers for you (get his book, top right on this page, it's a wealth of information at your fingertips, written in a Q&A format which makes it very easy to find your question and your answer). It's a marathon this condition, not a short sprint.

Take care,

Monique

[maestraz]

Babs,

As I and others have told you in multiple previous posts, there is NOT going to be a quick fix for this, and you need to stop thinking about what you can't eat and start identifying what you can.

You mention a short list of foods that you seem to be able to tolerate. My suggestion, which I'm sure others will echo, is to stick to only those foods for a while, and give your gut a chance to settle down. If you feel you are "starving," eat bigger portions of those few foods.

If you continue trying to introduce other foods too soon, and continue trying to find a "magic bullet" that you think will easily fix everything, you are going to continue to frustrate yourself, and your frustration will generate more depression.

I know it's not easy, and so does everyone in this group. We have all learned that impatience is not our friend when dealing with MC. And, you need to accept that you aren't likely to get easy answers from doctors either, because little is known to the medical establishment about MC.

When I was first diagnosed, I allowed myself a day or two for a pity party, then gave myself a little talking to about bucking up and taking what control I could over the situation, since feeling powerless/victimized was not my thing. I learned a lot in the process.

A lot of being successful with MC is to slow down, be patient, and accept that the process of trial and error will not be a quick one.

I hope you can do that. Good luck.

[barbiem]

thanks ladies! appreciate the info. I do have the book and am on chapter 5 so will continuing reading it. I understand the carb thing which is why I am adding in a few carbs starting with the rice cereal. Have tried sweet potatoes before but didn't work so well. I am kindof dumb and impatient when it comes to this stuff. Would love to do the stool test but unfortunately money just isn't there for that. WIll keep plugging away. I have been on entocort more than a month. I started it in may then reduced to 6 mg for 2 weeks in july then flared and was back on full 9mg since august. I understand there is no quick fix but I have been eating like this for over 6 months now with not much change in being able to add ANYTHING new in. which is why I decided after talking to this group to finally let go of the SCD yogurt. It has only been 3 days off yogurt. But that was a major staple in my diet so thought I would add in rice cereal. well not a good idea. So back to basics of just my 4 foods. I think its time for Elavil for depression for sure. Always wonder if this has all occurred because I stopped paxil which I was on for 16 years!!

babs

[tex]

with Monique and Suze — they're right on target.

When our gut is severely inflamed for years, our small intestine slowly loses it's ability to produce the enzymes needed to digest most sugars, and that means that in some cases we may lose the ability to digest some carbs. Also, by following the SCD (which does not allow any grains), your small intestine had no need to produce the enzymes needed to digest grains, so it stopped producing them, and after a while it has become less responsive to that demand. Without the correct enzymes, we cannot digest grains, and when that happens, gut bacteria will ferment them, causing gas and D.

You may have to retrain your gut to start producing those enzymes again, by starting with a small amount of rice at first, and slowly increasing the amount each time you eat it. That's what I had to do in order to be able to reintroduce foods into my diet after I had been on a very restrictive diet for a year and a half.

Tex

[barbiem]

okay so what is a small amount ?? I am taking prescription enzymes so I assumed they are doing the job my gut stopped doing? I have no problem with maple syrup which is sugar?? I used to put that in my yogurt. I didn't get any stomach issues after eating it just the next morning like I used to get all the time before I started only eating protiens. Maybe it was that 1 piece of bacon.?? So should I try the rice cereal again but maybe like 2 tbsps. instead of 1/2 a bowl full??
So chances are I can't digest grains?? not a sugar issue but more of a grain issue??
Can I ask when you say restrictive diet for a year and a half before introducing new foods -what did that entail??
babs

[tex]

Back when I was recovering, the only sugar that I could tolerate in any significant quantity was maple sugar (maple syrup). All other types of sugar made me sick.

Those prescription enzymes are another reason why your small intestine is not producing adequate amounts of the enzymes needed. Whenever we take a supplement (whether it be a thyroid supplement or a digestive enzyme), the feedback from that supplemental enzyme tells our body to produce less of that enzyme (because the enzyme is already available), so our own production facilities eventually become lazy, due to lack of demand, and when that happens they become less responsive whenever demands for more enzyme are issued by the digestive system.

That's just one more reason why we shouldn't be taking supplements that aren't absolutely essential, when our MC is active.

Maybe it was that 1 piece of bacon.??

Maybe, but I doubt it.

So should I try the rice cereal again but maybe like 2 tbsps. instead of 1/2 a bowl full??

Yes, try a few spoonfuls at first, and slowly increase the amount each time (if you didn't have any problems with the amount the previous time).

So chances are I can't digest grains?? not a sugar issue but more of a grain issue??

Some of us have permanent damage, if the inflammation lasts for years before we begin to treat it. And as a result, we may have to limit the amount of certain carbs that we eat at any given meal, so that we don't eat more than our body can produce the enzymes needed to digest it. We still produce the enzymes, we just can't produce as much of the enzymes as we used to be able to produce. Sometimes our enzyme production ability may slowly improve with time, and sometimes not.

This is similar to lactose intolerance. Any doctor can tell you that most lactose-intolerant people can drink up to about a a couple of cups of milk before they run out of lactase enzyme to digest it. IOW, they won't react to a cup of milk, but 3 or 4 will cause them to react. Of course some people have lower or higher tolerance limits.

Can I ask when you say restrictive diet for a year and a half before introducing new foods -what did that entail??

I ate only pork, eggs, chicken, potatoes, and rice, and maybe 3 or 4 times a week I would eat a small to moderate helping of overcooked squash, broccoli, green beans, or spinach. I drank only water, unsweetened tea, and Virgil's Root Beer. But since we're all somewhat different, that list of foods probably won't all work for you. I was lucky, because roughly half of us are sensitive to eggs.

Tex

[barbiem]

thanks tex - I think what is aggravating to me is I didn't react at all to the rice after eating it - even 2 hours after. Why in the morning would I have the diarrhea??

I understand the enzyme scenario and it makes sense but what if you have low acid or leaky gut along with MC?? Not sure if I do have that but apparently research shows most of us do have a leaky gut which is what actually starts the whole autoimmune thing.

Diarhhea is caused by water being not absorbed right? so why in the morning??? I had rice cereal again this morning and only a slight stomach ache nothing major at all and no BM - this is why I get frustrated as there is no rhyme or reason to any of this. I will keep reading your book as on chapter 5 now. LOL

I guess my biggest fear and concern and why I panic a lot on here is my severe loss of weight. I am literally anorexic looking and it scares the crap out of me.

babs

[ldubois7]

Babs,

I tried every food combination when I was first diagnosed with MC. I patterned my menu from several people on this site....but it didn't work for me, and I had no progress with healing.
I tested with Enterolab and found out that the chicken and rice I was eating was highly inflammatory for me! As you can see (to the left) my food intolerances are many, and it has taken 8 months to get to the point where I am now. I can safely eat 6-7 foods and that's all I eat, over and over, daily. I tried to introduce five little cubes of over cooked butternut squash to my dinner last night and my stools were looser....backsliding again. That tells me to stay on course with what I've been doing because I am not healed enough to venture out into new foods yet.

The Enterolab tests helped me a great deal. I had them done in early April, and I am just to the point now where I have 1 or 2 semi-normal bowel movements per day, and that is a great hurtle for me!

So, my advice is to have the test done, and go from there. I know and understand your feelings of frustration and hopelessness. It's confusing to all of us when we are starting on our journey to remission. It is not a simple disease. Others don't understand what we go through. But, the folks on this forum do, and can be an enormous help! We are honest with each other and are leaps and bounds ahead of the medical community on this disease.

Keep asking questions, and realize that it is a long process, but it is doable!

P.S. We do all have leaky gut, and I did have low stomach acid, so I take betaine HCL.

[tex]

Again, with Linda.

thanks tex - I think what is aggravating to me is I didn't react at all to the rice after eating it - even 2 hours after. Why in the morning would I have the diarrhea??

Because when we are short of enzymes, food goes through our small intestine only partially digested, so we can't absorb the nutrients from it, and when it gets to our colon, bacteria begin to ferment the chyme (partially-digested food). Normal transit time from mouth to anus is roughly 24 to 30 hours, depending on the type of food, and the condition of our digestive system. It takes roughly 8 to 12 hours for the food to get through the stomach and small intestine. When we are reacting and have D, those times tend to be much shorter, or course.

An MC reaction (autoimmune type reaction) usually occurs within about 3 to 12 hours after eating a food to which we are sensitive. Reactions due to mast cell problems (IgE-based, or allergic reactions) can occur as quickly as within a few minutes after eating a food, but they usually begin in about 10 or 15 minutes, and they can also occur in the gut on an ongoing basis. Reactions due to enzyme deficiencies (and fermentation) usually show up the next day (which is what appears to have happened to you ). All of these times can vary by the individual, and by the foods that are consumed, and by a few other things, so don't consider these times to be chiseled in stone.

The leaky gut issue is separate from the enzyme problems. Don't worry about it. It will resolve when you finally get your MC symptoms under control.

Tex

[wmonique2]

Babs,

I understand your concern about being really, really thin. I was anorexic as well (down to 95 lbs) and I was really, really scared. Many of us on this board were scarily thin. If you have done this for a long time (you said 6 months) then you need to be medicated as well as being on a diet. I am still medicated and on a stringent diet. I am waiting to heal sufficiently enough to start reducing my meds. Remember I am on year 3 of this ordeal. I have tried reducing meds several times but with no success. But I am a difficult case because I have diabetes and it is adding more layers to this equation.

I wanted to clarify that elavil is NOT for depression for us here. Most of us take 10 mg which is hardly enough if you're really depressed. Elavil is known for quieting the gut (works on serotonin in the gut) and in my case takes care of the horrific nausea I suffered from and allows me to eat. I went without eating like 4-5 months until I was given elavil and I started eating with 24 hours. Something to consider.

I hope that you start eating soon because I know the fear that I lived with when I wasn't able to swallow food.

Monique

[barbiem]

I also know fat is an issue for most MC people is that correct? I even get pain under my right ribcage after eating dark meat off a chicken. So if I could put weight on I would be happy. And what makes me even more frustrated is I was down to 108 lbs in april went on entocort in may put weight on and went up to 123 end of July so they started reducing my entocort and I also was told by the dr to start adding in a new food a week. So I started with eggs and went into a big flare that I can't get out of. So I am also very nervous of introducing new foods. I was tolerating yogurt/avocado/blueberries and bananas and nut butter muffins back then no problem and now none of those work. I was really afraid to remove the yogurt thinking if it do, I may never get that food back again either. The list keeps dwindling down. :(

babs

[barbiem]

thanks everyone - will keep going I guess. glad to hear I am not the only one dealing with being skinny! I am just tired of everyone freaking out when they see me which of course makes me question everything again. I also have hypothyroidism and ibs for 20 years so maybe, just maybe that is why I am struggling. It's funny because having IBS for 20 years and managing very well with diet was no where near as difficult as this. I have no idea why I can't get through it but think it might have something to do with not being on my antidepressants anymore. Will see about wellbutrin or Elavil.

Will remain on entocort for sure until I can eat more foods!! Was thinking of betaine HCL?? anyone had any success with that? I have heard sometimes those with low acid won't get healed and I did that baking soda test where you drink it with water first thing in the am and should burp after but nothing happened for me?? any thoughts??

babs