Will entocort help with the flu?

[DebE13]

I was doing well with 3mg every five days until yesterday. The flu started about 2pm on Wednesday and I thought it was going to just be the chills, body aches, headache, fever, etc. without involving D. On Friday My WD returned with a vengeance. I started taking 6mg of entocort which obviously did nothing. Do I continue taking an upped daily dose until things are under control again?

I know hydration is important but I haven't been able to drink much because it hurts. Absolutely nothing cold or I get cramping. I'm wondering with the lack of fluids where all the D can be coming from. I haven't eaten anything solid in over a day and a half. I tried a half cup of diluted chicken broth last night and that didn't feel right. I've been doing hot water in small amounts but I get bloated and belchy.

For those of you that regularly experience abdominal pain with your MC, my heart goes out to you. It is awful.

[DJ]

Good morning, Deb. If you have flu symptoms with a fever, etc. you will need to keep a very close eye on this and you may need to see a doctor. It sounds like you are very vulnerable to dehydration right now. Are your flu symptoms just beginning? Do you have a fever? If you have not taken your temperature, you should. Are you able to take Tylenol for a fever? Entocort doesn't help the flu.

I'm leaving for the day. I hope you hear from Tex too. Get well!

[DebE13]

Thanks DJ, i didn't think entocort would help for the flu but I'm wondering if the flu will cause a relapse in my D. So like before, flu and D the no flu and the D stays. This is exactly how my CC started. I came down with the flu and the D never went away even when the flu symptoms did.

I took tylenol for the first few days but it stopped helping so i haven't taken anything since. I am working on the fluids because I know how important it is and I know seeing a doctor right now is the last thing I plan on doing. Haha.

Off to an epsom salts bath.

[tex]

Hi Deb,

I'm sorry to hear that your symptoms are getting worse. That's secretory diarrhea, and it's a symptom of MC. You can't "starve out" secretory D, so please don't try. Secretory D can continue whether or not you eat or drink anything, and in the absence of re-hydration, it tends to continue until dehydration is so severe that it becomes life-threatening (because it also involves the purging of electrolytes). So please stay hydrated, and if dehydration gets out of hand, you may have to visit the ER for IV infusions. And remember that you need to resupply the electrolytes that are being lost.

Theoretically, budesonide might help, but since it's never prescribed for that purpose, and this possibility has never been researched (to my knowledge), these are uncharted waters. IMO, the odds are probably even better that budesonide might be contraindicated. Here's why it might help:

The flu causes enteritis (intestinal inflammation), and of course that's the primary symptom of MC. Influenza causes massive mast cell activation/degranulation (that's what makes it dangerous for certain types of individuals who are vulnerable). Most doctors will probably tell you that no one knows how corticosteroids work. So though this isn't well-understood, or even well-known in medical circles, the primary mechanism by which corticosteroids suppress inflammation appears to be by means of suppressing mast cell numbers. So from that viewpoint, budesonide might help.

On the other hand, here's why it might be contraindicated:

Budesonide suppresses the immune system. It's not a major effect, but over time, it does have a significant modulating effect on the immune system. Without an effective immune system response, a virus can propagate in a hurry.

But back to the possible benefits of a corticosteroid, the feature of viruses in the H1N1 and H1N5 category that makes them dangerous to certain individuals (the very young and the very old) is their ability to prompt an over-response by the immune system, resulting in the massive release of potent cytokines (known as a "cytokine storm") that the immune system is not only able to handle, but actually makes worse. So in that scenario, suppressing the immune system would probably be helpful. This old post by Polly discusses this characteristic, and this quote is why I consider a bottle of 50,000 IU vitamin D to be my insurance policy against an eventual bird-flu pandemic:

But...............TA DA! Guess what? Vitamin D PREVENTS the excess expression of inflammatory cytokines and instead enhances other (much less inflammatory) immune functions. So some researchers are saying that we might fight and even prevent flu by taking vitamin D.

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5279

Speaking of vitamin D, Dr. Cannell (of the Vitamin D Council) recommends massive doses of vitamin D for 3 days to stop the development of the flu (but this treatment has to be initiated within 2 days after first symptoms appear in order to be completely effective. Beginning the treatment after 2 days might help to make symptoms milder, but it cannot prevent the flu from developing). Anyway, here's the basic treatment:

What if a person already has the flu?
Perhaps take 3 capsules per day (see notes below)

Clipped from a 2008 paper by Dr. Cannell

"Theoretically, pharmacological doses of vitamin D (2,000 IU/kg/day for three days) may produce enough of the naturally occurring antibiotic cathelicidin to cure common viral respiratory infections, such as influenza and the common cold, but such a theory awaits further science."
Notes: Pharmacological dose = The dose needed to make a drug medically effective in treating an illness.
A 200 lb (91 kg) person would thus need about 3 of the 50,000 IU capsules daily for 3 days

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/Reduce+prob ... ng+the+Flu

That's why I keep a bottle of 50,000 IU vitamin D on hand, just in case I need it.

Tex

[DebE13]

Thanks for all the great information, Tex. I always appreciate your easy to understand explanations. Although there are no clear cut answers, it does give me quite a few things to consider now and in the future. It's been years since I've had the flu. I was pretty proud I avoided it for so long. I am finally feeling better except for the D. I've not been intentionally not eating but the cramping and body aches are on their way out so I'm working up the nerve to have a bite to eat. Water is good going down now but I have to resist the urge to chug a whole pitcher of water. Little shot glasses every 15 minutes or so seem to be working the best.

As always, I appreciate your concern and suggestions as to how to get back on track.

[ldubois7]

Tex, That is so interesting! Do you do the 50,000 IU's of Vit D twice a month? Thanks for the article!!

Deb, Maybe by tomorrow you'll be able to sip some diluted bone broth again...you must be feeling weak. Isn't it terrible when even water bloats you out???? :(

[Gabes-Apg]

Deb,
A year or so ago, in the aus winter I got the strain of flu that was ripe that season.

I took high doses of vitamin d, and drank heaps of water...
I was probably taking 15,000 - 20,000 iu per day.
And increased zinc intake via liquid zinc
Had small meals mostly chicken and rice (my staple)
Rested...

I got through the worse of it in 4 days.

Most people who got this strain, spent 2-3 months with lingering cough.
For me, the cough was gone within 2 weeks.

I know you have had lots going on this past 6 months, I can only encourage the use of high doses of Vit d3, rest, anything that will help reduce, remove inflammation/mucus.

Spending one to two weeks doing this, namely the rest, will help the body fully recover.
If you don't, there is high risk of having symptoms for months, which I don't think your body is up to.

Take care

[tex]

Tex, That is so interesting! Do you do the 50,000 IU's of Vit D twice a month? Thanks for the article!!

No, I take about 7,000 IU daily in the winter, and about 4,000 IU in the summer, and I taper the dosage up and down in the fall and spring.

The 50,000 IU capsules are just for when/if I feel the flu or a cold coming on. The problem is, with allergies, it usually takes me a day or 2 before I can be sure it's really a virus, and not just hay fever, so the few times that I've tried the high dosage, I've already had symptoms for 2 or 3 days, and all I've been able to accomplish is to prevent it from getting bad/worse, and to shorten the duration.

Like Gabes, I've also tried taking 20,000 IU daily doses of vitamin D for most of a week when I've felt a cold coming on (especially if it's one of those that seem to last forever for most people), and I've had good luck getting rid of it faster, and with less aggravation, than most people.

Tex

[ldubois7]

Tex,

I am like you...with allergies, it takes me a day or two to differentiate between a cold and allergies. I'm only taking 2,000 IU daily right now. But, it's interesting that taking 50,000 twice a month can be so beneficial to our health in the long run.

I'm going to have to buy some D with the higher dosage, mine is just 1,000 IU each.

Thanks again for the article. It's very enlightening.

[DebE13]

Linda, I did ok with a small bowl of chex this morning. I have turkey and rice cooking right now. Adding more water and doing good with that. It is frustrating when something safe like water creates an issue. My husband got home from plowing snow this morning and the flu started for him. I hope his doesnt last nearly as long as mine. Mine maybe lasted as long as it did because it just took my body that much longer to get over it because of all my health issues this past year. My butt is still dragging but I'm used to that. The eye pain and headache are still lingering. Yesterday, my neck felt all out of sorts. I'm sure the coughing didn't help. I would imagine that there is still some healing going on, after all four months isn't a terrifically long time.

Thanks Gabes, I've already upped my vit D and that of everyone in the house. My son is home on break from college and it sure would be nice if he could avoid it or not take it with him when classes resume. I literally slept all day yesterday. Of course it was broken and not very restful but it was sleep. I plan on taking your advise and pushing everything aside (again) and take the time to rest. I might as well do it now or pay the consequences later.

[TXBrenda]

Deb, Have you tried adding salt & baking powder to your water. I got the recipe from this site. It is 1/2 teaspoon each table salt & baking powder to a quart of water. You can also add 1/4 tsp salt substitute. Drinking this has helped me in the past replace lost electrolytes from D and/or nausea.

You could drink only as much as you can tolerate at a time.

Hope you feel better soon.

[tex]

Deb, Have you tried adding salt & baking powder to your water. I got the recipe from this site. It is 1/2 teaspoon each table salt & baking powder to a quart of water.

Isn't that baking soda, rather than baking powder? As listed in this post:

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=992

Tex

[TXBrenda]

You're right Tex. Thanks for correcting me. I also leave out the sugar because I'm diabetic.

I have the recipe taped to the inside of my cabinet, so I don't get confused, lol.

[DebE13]

Thanks Brenda, I've been drinking chicken broth and that seems to work well with my stomache even though I'm not a big fan of it on it's own. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm hesitant with gatorade because of the dyes and sugar. It's really too bad we've become a society in which everything has to be a bright color in order for it to be considered palatable.

Thanks for reposting the link, Tex. I mixed a batch up hoping it would help with the headache and muscle cramps. Sadly, I almost threw up because it has the same consistency as Golytely (what a misleading name). This was the colonoscopy prep I took, and never will again, for my last colonoscopy a few years ago. Apparently my body has a strong memory of the horrible chills and profuse vomitting that I experienced when I used it. The ingredient that makes you "go" must be added to an electrolyte solution because I will never forget that almost slimey feeling in my mouth.

I think I may keep trying though because I look like the walking dead. The last place I want to end up is in the hospital surrounded by a bunch of idiots who would surely want to give me something with gluten or soy.

I figure I can't be at death's door yet if I'm still able to hurl insults at those who may someday save my life. Bottoms up!

On a more serious note, I'm really torn about the idea of asking my son to get a flu shot (in the future) because it would surely be too late now since he's been in the house with me since last Wednesday. I stopped doing flu shots years ago when we both came down with a very nasty flu even though we were vaccinated. I'm not impressed with the fillers in them either but he has his own health issues and I'm not sure which is the greater evil for him.

[tex]

I figure I can't be at death's door yet if I'm still able to hurl insults at those who may someday save my life. Bottoms up!

Yep, you're still sharp as a tack.

Tex