HI all,
I need some clarification on the histamine issue. If a food that shows up on the high histamine list is low green on my MRT list, which do I attend to? Lets take avocados for example. They show up on lists as a high histamine food, but on my MRT testing they are a very low green. I do eat them, usually one per week and I can't say I have noticeable reactions from them.
Likewise I have foods that are not a high histamine food that come up yellow for me on my MRT testing. Those I tend to avoid, because I feel that MRT result is specific to me.
But how should I view it when a high histamine food shows up low on my MRT list?
I would welcome anyone's input. I know many of us are dealing with histamine and/or mast cell issues.
Thanks,
Carol
? for Tex, Polly and/or Mary Beth, re: histamine list vs MRT
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
? for Tex, Polly and/or Mary Beth, re: histamine list vs MRT
“.... people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Angelou
Hi Carol,
Here's my 2 cents worth, and I wouldn't value it much higher than that, since I've never done the MRT:
My impression is that the MRT does much better at detecting inflammatory foods than it does at establishing non-inflammatory foods. This is very likely due to the fact that its Achilles' heel seems to be an inability to reliably detect certain types of inflammatory issues. For example, the MRT has a very poor record at detecting sensitivities to gluten, casein, and even soy (the very ones that should be easy, due to their propensity to generate autoimmune-like reactions).
No test is perfect. Even Dr. Fine warns us that we cannot assume that a food is safe, just because an EnteroLab test does not detect antibodies in the sample we submitted. The bottom line seems to be that it is much easier to ferret out inflammatory foods, than it is to accurately proclaim any food to be free of reactions. This is due to the fact that the EnteroLab tests are very specific, and they only test for specific antibodies to the most prominent proteins known to cause reactions (IOW there are many, many antibodies that are not tested for, in order to keep the cost of the tests at an affordable level).
With the MRT, the results are based on an indirect method that is claimed to determine a relative level of sensitivity to various foods and chemicals by measuring an increase in the ratio of liquids to solids in a blood sample that has been exposed to a given allergen. Perhaps histamine-based reactions do not cause a significant change in the ratio of liquids to solids in blood samples used in that test.
Tex
Here's my 2 cents worth, and I wouldn't value it much higher than that, since I've never done the MRT:
My impression is that the MRT does much better at detecting inflammatory foods than it does at establishing non-inflammatory foods. This is very likely due to the fact that its Achilles' heel seems to be an inability to reliably detect certain types of inflammatory issues. For example, the MRT has a very poor record at detecting sensitivities to gluten, casein, and even soy (the very ones that should be easy, due to their propensity to generate autoimmune-like reactions).
No test is perfect. Even Dr. Fine warns us that we cannot assume that a food is safe, just because an EnteroLab test does not detect antibodies in the sample we submitted. The bottom line seems to be that it is much easier to ferret out inflammatory foods, than it is to accurately proclaim any food to be free of reactions. This is due to the fact that the EnteroLab tests are very specific, and they only test for specific antibodies to the most prominent proteins known to cause reactions (IOW there are many, many antibodies that are not tested for, in order to keep the cost of the tests at an affordable level).
With the MRT, the results are based on an indirect method that is claimed to determine a relative level of sensitivity to various foods and chemicals by measuring an increase in the ratio of liquids to solids in a blood sample that has been exposed to a given allergen. Perhaps histamine-based reactions do not cause a significant change in the ratio of liquids to solids in blood samples used in that test.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
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Carol
not meaning to cause you more headaches with this pondering
another layer to this, as we heal (or as we have other health issues?) what is a major trigger or minor trigger can change slightly......
diet wise for me, some of what worked 4 years ago, does not work as well now....
not meaning to cause you more headaches with this pondering
another layer to this, as we heal (or as we have other health issues?) what is a major trigger or minor trigger can change slightly......
diet wise for me, some of what worked 4 years ago, does not work as well now....
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
I just read on another site- while doing a search regarding inactive med ingredients- that Benadryl contains soy. I think I have some phone calling to do tomorrow, to the manufacturer. I see the Benadryl Elixir looks like it should be soy free if I can survive the flavoring and dyes. Anyway, I'll be backing off of it tonight. I've not felt well today gut-wise. I think the addition of Diphenhydramine has promise but I have to make sure it's clean. Carol
“.... people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Angelou
Oh no! Please let us know Carol. I take Benadryl and have never been better ( since MC that is). I take it in pill form though.
The histamine thing is tricky because it is a QUANTITY thing. We all have a tipping point when our histamine levels get too high. I have to admit, that I do eat avocado, a little chocolate, and I also use condiments that have vinegar. Because I take antihistamines, I think I am still staying within my limits most of the time. During allergy season, I have to cut back on the high histamine foods though.
Leah
The histamine thing is tricky because it is a QUANTITY thing. We all have a tipping point when our histamine levels get too high. I have to admit, that I do eat avocado, a little chocolate, and I also use condiments that have vinegar. Because I take antihistamines, I think I am still staying within my limits most of the time. During allergy season, I have to cut back on the high histamine foods though.
Leah
Here are the inactive ingredients for Walgreens Wal-Dryl dye free liquids gels: Gelatin , Glycerin , Polyethylene Glycol , Purified Water , Sorbitol.
What I found said gelatin is an animal based product and that glycerin is a sugar based product.
Looking at this list of ingredients is there anything sketchy in here (derived from the big 4) that I overlooked?
Leah, I agree with you about the balancing act and if I reach the Benadryl people today I'll let you know. I can't swear to the authenticity of the other site I was looking at. It was people discussing histamine issues but I don't know the sources of the person who wrote that Benadryl contained soy but they weren't required to put it on the label, so she was looking for a soy free alternative to Benadryl.
Carol
What I found said gelatin is an animal based product and that glycerin is a sugar based product.
Looking at this list of ingredients is there anything sketchy in here (derived from the big 4) that I overlooked?
Leah, I agree with you about the balancing act and if I reach the Benadryl people today I'll let you know. I can't swear to the authenticity of the other site I was looking at. It was people discussing histamine issues but I don't know the sources of the person who wrote that Benadryl contained soy but they weren't required to put it on the label, so she was looking for a soy free alternative to Benadryl.
Carol
“.... people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Angelou
Carol,
That list appears to me to be free of the big 4 and their derivatives. Sorbitol is a problem for some of us (in significant amounts), but since it's the last ingredient in the list, the amount should be very small, and therefore insignificant.
Gelatin is collagen. It's the material that makes up the matrix that holds our cells together. Without collagen, we would just collapse into a pile of loose cells on the floor. This is the same tissue implicated in the thickened collagen bands that are diagnostic of CC, but obviously eating gelatin will not cause the development of CC.
The contention about soy may be connected with the glycerin. Yes, glycerin can be made from soy, but it can also be made from many other sources, including coconut oil and palm oil. The most common (traditional) source is animal fat, however.
Tex
That list appears to me to be free of the big 4 and their derivatives. Sorbitol is a problem for some of us (in significant amounts), but since it's the last ingredient in the list, the amount should be very small, and therefore insignificant.
Gelatin is collagen. It's the material that makes up the matrix that holds our cells together. Without collagen, we would just collapse into a pile of loose cells on the floor. This is the same tissue implicated in the thickened collagen bands that are diagnostic of CC, but obviously eating gelatin will not cause the development of CC.
The contention about soy may be connected with the glycerin. Yes, glycerin can be made from soy, but it can also be made from many other sources, including coconut oil and palm oil. The most common (traditional) source is animal fat, however.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
My soy allergic daughter who can have small amounts of soy oil and soy lecithin, had her worst reaction all year when she ate a Betty Crocker cereal bar made with "vegetable glycerine" at school. I think the label warned about soy, but the teacher assumed it was lecithin or oil.
She had immediate D and soiled herself on the way to the bathroom, poor thing.
She had immediate D and soiled herself on the way to the bathroom, poor thing.
1987 Mononucleosis (EBV)
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
Leah-- and all,
I just got off the phone with the Benadryl consumer dept. and it is true. She said both their Liqui-gels and the Ultratab (pink tablet) contain soy.
Just to be safe I may call the Walgreens people soon and ask about their products, even though like Tex said their dye free Liqui-gels (that I posted above) seem like they should be okay.
Thanks Tex for looking at that for me.
Carol
I just got off the phone with the Benadryl consumer dept. and it is true. She said both their Liqui-gels and the Ultratab (pink tablet) contain soy.
Just to be safe I may call the Walgreens people soon and ask about their products, even though like Tex said their dye free Liqui-gels (that I posted above) seem like they should be okay.
Thanks Tex for looking at that for me.
Carol
“.... people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Angelou
To add to what I posted above, Walgreens Wal-Dryl actually says "does not contain gluten" whereas Benadryl said they couldn't promise it wasn't contaminated in the processing plant.
Here are the inactive ingredients in Wal-Dryl's coated mini-tab (pink tablet): Cornstarch , D&C Red 27 Aluminum Lake , Dicalcium Phosphate , Magnesium Stearate , Microcrystalline Cellulose , Polyethylene Glycol , Polyvinyl Alcohol , Silicon Dioxide , Stearic Acid , Talc , Titanium Dioxide.
Is there anything sketchy here? I haven't had time to look up Microcrystalline Cellulose or Polyvinyl Alcohol which doesn't sound like anything a person should ingest. Anyone else know about these substances?
C.
Here are the inactive ingredients in Wal-Dryl's coated mini-tab (pink tablet): Cornstarch , D&C Red 27 Aluminum Lake , Dicalcium Phosphate , Magnesium Stearate , Microcrystalline Cellulose , Polyethylene Glycol , Polyvinyl Alcohol , Silicon Dioxide , Stearic Acid , Talc , Titanium Dioxide.
Is there anything sketchy here? I haven't had time to look up Microcrystalline Cellulose or Polyvinyl Alcohol which doesn't sound like anything a person should ingest. Anyone else know about these substances?
C.
“.... people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Angelou
OK now I am going to read the inactive ingredients to the Kirkland brand ( Costco) that I use …although I am fine taking them.
Well, the ingredients are exactly the same as the Wal-Dryl brand. Don't know what those substances are either, but I feel better when I take this drug. THAT much I know.
leah
Well, the ingredients are exactly the same as the Wal-Dryl brand. Don't know what those substances are either, but I feel better when I take this drug. THAT much I know.
leah
Carol,
Microcrystalline cellulose is basically just refined wood pulp, and it's used for various purposes in food. It doesn't sound very appetizing, but it shouldn't be a problem. Polyvinyl alcohol is used in many industrial applications, but it's not normally used in food. Why pharmaceutical manufacturers choose to use industrial chemicals in their products is always puzzling.
Still, there's no reason to believe that it might cause a reaction for someone who has MC.
Tex
Microcrystalline cellulose is basically just refined wood pulp, and it's used for various purposes in food. It doesn't sound very appetizing, but it shouldn't be a problem. Polyvinyl alcohol is used in many industrial applications, but it's not normally used in food. Why pharmaceutical manufacturers choose to use industrial chemicals in their products is always puzzling.
Still, there's no reason to believe that it might cause a reaction for someone who has MC.Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Carol,
Don't really know the answer to your question about MRT vs. histamine reactions. I do know that MRT has been amazingly accurate for me. I don't usually have a major problem with histamines, although, of course, I'm sure I have had problems with "drift" at times.
I noticed on another thread that you use the Earth Balance soy-free margarine, which contains corn and pea protein. Apparently green pea was "yellow" for you on MRT - could that be a problem? I know that I react to even the teeniest amount of my MRT yellows.
Your detective work about the meds is well-done! Maybe we need to have that kind of valuable info (the info we have collected re inert ingredients in meds) readily available in a forum. Tex, what do you think?
Love,
Polly
Don't really know the answer to your question about MRT vs. histamine reactions. I do know that MRT has been amazingly accurate for me. I don't usually have a major problem with histamines, although, of course, I'm sure I have had problems with "drift" at times.
I noticed on another thread that you use the Earth Balance soy-free margarine, which contains corn and pea protein. Apparently green pea was "yellow" for you on MRT - could that be a problem? I know that I react to even the teeniest amount of my MRT yellows.
Your detective work about the meds is well-done! Maybe we need to have that kind of valuable info (the info we have collected re inert ingredients in meds) readily available in a forum. Tex, what do you think?
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
That sounds like a good idea (as long as we remember that manufacturers sometimes change those ingredients without prior notice). I'll add a forum in the Special Information for People Who Have Multiple Intolerances category, and anyone who has tracked down such information can add a post that contains ingredient information for specific brands of medications. Please be sure to include the name of the product and brand in the title of the post.Polly wrote:Your detective work about the meds is well-done! Maybe we need to have that kind of valuable info (the info we have collected re inert ingredients in meds) readily available in a forum. Tex, what do you think?
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Polly,
Well, rats, it does have pea protein. To be honest I only use it in one recipe that I make about once every 2 weeks. I'm eating mostly meat and vegetables and do virtually no baking, so I probably haven't really tested it. I was so excited it had no soy! Thank you for pointing that out. I'll have to do a serious challenge of it.
I am much better yesterday and today. I don't hurt and my gut is quiet. I really think the #1 offender was the tocopherols in my Omega 3 supplement. I did increase my Amitriptyline to 1 1/2 tablets for the past couple nights because I had some real motility issues on Sunday. We'll see how I do as the week goes on.
Tex, thanks again for looking for another long list of inactive ingredients.
thanks again,
Carol
Well, rats, it does have pea protein. To be honest I only use it in one recipe that I make about once every 2 weeks. I'm eating mostly meat and vegetables and do virtually no baking, so I probably haven't really tested it. I was so excited it had no soy! Thank you for pointing that out. I'll have to do a serious challenge of it.
I am much better yesterday and today. I don't hurt and my gut is quiet. I really think the #1 offender was the tocopherols in my Omega 3 supplement. I did increase my Amitriptyline to 1 1/2 tablets for the past couple nights because I had some real motility issues on Sunday. We'll see how I do as the week goes on.
Tex, thanks again for looking for another long list of inactive ingredients.
thanks again,
Carol
“.... people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Angelou