The More I Learn, The Less I know

[wmonique2]

Hello friends,

I have finally received the results of my MRT test. I have taken Enterolab a while back when I joined the board and adhered to all of the rules in addition to following a low histamine and low fiber diet.

However, in January I spent a very long month being ill. It turned out to be the glucosamine/chondroitin/msm combo I was taking that derailed me. Soon as I stopped taking it, I was back to normal.

In a moment of weakness (or exuberance) I decided to take the MRT test.

It is diametrically opposed to the Enterolab test I took. If I was confused before by the various diets and restrictions, now I can positively say that the more I learn, the less I know.

Here's an example:

Chicken: Ent. good Mrt bad
Almonds: Ent. good Mrt bad
yoghurt: Ent. good Mrt bad
Dairy: Ent. good Mrt bad
Soy: Ent. highly reactive, Mrt good
Walnuts: Ent. highly reactive, Mrt good

On and on and on. And twenty six yellows meaning it's not a definitive good or bad. Then there is the issue of tyramine which is like histamine since the restrictions are the same as the anti-histamine diet I am already on.

I know your answer: you have to test each food to find out. OK if you're not taking meds but if you're taking meds like I do, these meds mask your intolerances and you might be eating something that is harming you i.e inflamming your gut even more than it already is.

And that is the reason I took both tests. So this is anything but perfect science. If there is such a thing ;-)

Monique

[Leah]

Wow Monique, pretty confusing. We know that the Enterolab tests for IgA antibodies. What exactly is MRT measuring? If it's different, then it is likely that you could/not be producing IgA antibodies, but is/not reacting in a different way to the MRT foods…. both of which can trigger an inflammatory reaction.

Having said that, it doesn't help you figure anything out. How are you feeling these days? Do you feel that you are still eating things you shouldn't? it would be hard to test things with the drugs you are taking, but if you are still not feeling good, then I guess eliminating a few things may show improvement. ???????

Hopefully, someone else will chime in.
Leah

[Jeanemcl]

Oh wow.....I was thinking of doing the MRT but I will now pass on it. I don't want to be anymore confused than I am about what to eat and what not to eat. Do you suppose it has anything to do with how much of something you are eating? I remember on panel C I came out a +3 on chicken and rice ( however the overall score was ok) and that was all I was eating. I believe Tex told me that the overall score of 7 trumped the individual scores....or something like that! Will be interested in what Tex and Polly say about this. What a roller coaster.
Jean

[JFR]

This is what I know from reading what Tex has said about Ent vs MRT. Enterolab is a direct measurement so its results always trump MRT results. A positive Enterolab result means avoid the food regardless of the MRT results. I'll let others who have taken the MRT chime in on how to interpret those results. I have not taken it.

Jean

[tex]

Monique,

Your overall result on the EnteroLab 11 antigenic foods panel was 5, so you can assume that their test showed no response from any of the foods tested. That should be a valid result unless you were taking something that had a suppressive effect on your immune system, or you are IgA deficient.

Tex

[wmonique2]

Leah, 2 Jeans, Tex

MRT was supposed to give me more clarity and help me fine-tune my diet. It did neither.

I feel good. No problems at this moment.

MRT showed that the foods that I eat most are in the yellow range. Sweet potatoes, zucchini, onions, cranberries, almonds, beets, chicken are all in the in-between score which leads me to believe (although Tex may disagree with me) that it is possible that I am reactive to them because I am eating them frequently. It is all so strange that the test shows that I am reactive to my basic staples. The stuff I never touch like legumes I am not.

How does one know that you are IgA deficient? And what can have a suppressive effect on the immune system? Mesalamine and Amitriptyline do not.

Puzzled and confused.

Monique

[tlras]

Monique,

That is so confusing...so sorry this is happening. Can drive one nuts. I've managed to figure out my sensitivities without any tests...thank goodness as they are expensive...just listen to my body as I'm on no meds. Your two meds seem to being working well for you. BTW...didn't know that about your Glucosamine...glad you figured that one out. But glad you are feeling good...maybe just keep doing what you are doing since you are doing well. Wish I could add something to help girl, but just wanted to say "hi" and try not to fret over this. I know I will never do the MRT now!

Terri

[DJ]

I would be confused too, Monique. I've been on the fence about MRT testing but this helps me to lean toward holding off. My plan is to try to reintroduce more foods one at a time and to stay away from long-known sensitivities. MRT results like yours would make my head spin

[Zizzle]

My integrative medicine doctor said he stopped ordering MRT tests for his patients. I also ended up with exactly 26 yellow foods, no reds. I do think MRT is reflective of our leaky gut situation and shows how we react to many of our staple foods. I did avoid most of my yellows for 30+ days, not sure if it made any difference. I never stopped eating garlic and onions. I don't eat walnut as a result of MRT.

[tex]

It is all so strange that the test shows that I am reactive to my basic staples. The stuff I never touch like legumes I am not.

That's just one of several reasons why you will never see me ordering mediator release testing.

How does one know that you are IgA deficient?

It can be determined by a simple blood test. People who have selective IgA deficiency are not capable of producing normal amounts of immunoglobulin A. Ask your GP for a test that will either rule out or confirm selective IgA deficiency.

And what can have a suppressive effect on the immune system?

Medications such as budesonide (Entocort), prednisone (or any of the other corticosteroids), methotrexate, Imuran (or any of the other chemotherapy drugs), any of the Anti-TNF drugs, or any other drugs used to prevent organ rejection after an organ transplant, tend to suppress the immune system.

Tex

[Polly]

Hi Monique!

I can understand your frustration. It is not easy fitting all of the pieces together. And no, it is definitely not a perfect science.

It was easier for me. Back when I was diagnosed with MC, Dr. Fine did not have all of his tests available. Only gluten, dairy, and yeast tests were available. From there I eliminated other foods by trial and error until I got to about 85% normal. That meant I was still having soft stools frequently as well as occasional flares. After 10-12 years I decided to do MRT, which has gotten me to 99% normal.

I am not an expert on MRT, but I know it is supposed to have a 93% accuracy - at least in my own case, that seems to be true. Dr. Fine's tests are looking for ANTIBODIES to specific foods in the STOOL. MRT is looking for changes in the circulating WHITE CELLS in the BLOOD due to white cell response to certain foods. When the white cells in blood are exposed to certain problem foods, they release chemicals called mediators (examples are histamine, prostaglandins, cytokines, etc.) and become smaller in size, which can be measured. It is these mediators (whether they are released as a result of an antibody/antigen reaction in the gut or as a result of white cells in the blood reacting to a food) that cause the inflammation, pain, fatigue, and other symptoms we associate with MC. So essentially, each test is measuring a different immune system function. IOW, the body's immune system can respond to problem foods in various ways. And there are probably other immune mechanisms (maybe many) involved in food sensitivity that we have no understanding of yet. And then, of course, we know that we MCers don't do well with certain foods like legumes and grains, despite what the tests show.

As you probably know, I am not a fan of the nutrition piece/meal planning part of the test. I think an MCer can design his own plan, mainly by starting with testing the lowest greens and working to the highest greens. The yellows and reds should be avoided, at least initially. After 2 years I have only been able to add in one or two yellows - they have continued to be problematic for me.

Here's what I would do if I were you.......NOTHING for now. Especially since you are feeling good, with no problems. BTW, though, I am wondering what is the reason for trying LDN?
How will you know if it is helping if you are symptom-free? Or is the case that you hope eventually to eliminate the mesalamine/amiltriptyline? In the future, should things deteriorate, you can always begin testing the greens and avoiding the yellows/reds. BTW, MRT recommends you add one new food a day, so it only takes about a month for the trial.

I do think the IgA test is a good idea.

Keep us posted!

Love,

Polly

[wmonique2]

Hey friends,

Thank you all for your support and for chiming in.

And thank you Polly for explaining it all. I understand that both enterolab and MRT measure different things but in my rational, linear mind they still should reach the same conclusions. In my case I'll say that BOTH tests were a huge waste of money. I was already GF, DF and low fiber and a very limited and bland diet when I tested with enterolab. I added low histamine later when the mast cell flared up but that I learned from this board and not any test I took.

To answer your last question Polly. My answer is that you're right. I am doing LDN because I want to heal and I haven't seen any healing yet in 3 years. I want to eliminate mesalamine/amitriptyline because they raise my liver enzymes and I have a chronic case of brain fog (both my short term and long term memory have suffered), fatigue and body aches that I cannot eliminate. Every attempt I have made to titrate down with the meds were terribly unsuccessful and it took me a while to recover after each attempt.

I haven't been able to work or accomplish anything in 3 years (well, I did edit and publish a book that was written pre-MC but that's it).

The LDN clinical trials that have been done with Dr. Jill Smith showed concrete evidence of a serious reduction in inflammation. Her trials had 89% success with Crohnsies. The only side effect reported was lucid dreams. I am willing to take a chance on LDN since remission doesn't seem to be in the cards for me with the current meds notwithstanding all the dieting and restrictions I do. They keep symptoms at bay but the status quo is not what I envision for the remainder of my life.

The way it is now I don't know that I'll ever be able to write another sentence. Or make a living as a reporter again. Or make a living period.

Love to all of you for your support and dedication to this community we have carved.

Monique

[Leah]

Monique, I just want to say that I am IgA deficient and even though the blood test is an easy one, if you had any significant IgA test scores when you did Enterolab, then you are NOT IgA deficient. When I took the Enterolab test ( not knowing about the deficiency), my scores were so low that even a normal person would question the results! The only antibody score that was recordable was a gluten score of 4!

Thanks Polly for explaining WHAT is measured with the MRT test. I was always a bit confused with that, but now it makes perfect sense. Since I am IgA deficient, there had to be another pathway of my food intolerances since I don't produce IgA antibodies and am also low on two of my IgG antibodies also.

Leah

[Lesley]

Monique,
I am very empathetic since I have been on this journey (consciously) for over 2.5 years, and have not healed. I am definitely better than I was, but I continue to be inflamed, no matter what I do.
My biggest problem is the brain fog and exhaustion. I so feel your pain!

I don't know how much amitriptyline you are taking. I have been on 100 mgs daily for years now. I got off a lot of meds, one after the other, and with difficulty. I am trying to titrate the amitriptyline down now by opening the capsules and pouring out a little every day. I am trying to do it slowly because I am worried about the effects of doing faster. I titrated off effexor slowly. Talk about lurid dreams! It was unreality in technicolor. Scary as hell.
Getting off prednisone - painful in the extreme. Vicoden? ditto.
My latest accident, fracturing a vertebra and rupturing 2 disks (or one, and re-rupturing another) is still causing me a lot of pain, which, in turn, adds to the exhaustion. I am doing it with no pain meds other than a caudal epidural.
What can I tell you? I am very envious of people for whom diet, or diet and med combo has worked. I understand you very well when you talk about the emotions when it hasn't.
Hang in there!

[wmonique2]

Leah

Thank you for figuring it out. I have tested positive for several antigens so I guess I am not IgA deficient.

Lesley,

I have followed your difficult journey and I, as well, empathize with you. There is no easy journey for any of us. Some are just harder than others.

I take 10mg of amitriptyline, just to quiet the gut from the mast cells issues I suffer from. It has seriously reduced the debilitating nausea that kept me bedridden for months on end. I can't imagine what 100mg feels like...I couldn't hardly open my eyes in the morning with 10mg. I shudder to think what 100mg will do.

Thank you Lesley for that wonderful hug. It feels great. I am a hugger too...

Monique