LC for 1 year - introduction (with Enterolab report)

[Leah]

Hi Linda. I just want to suggest that maybe to help you feel full, you may want to add fats instead of carbohydrates. Do you eat olives ( black)? Avocado? nitrite free bacon? The skin on chicken? Some people even just take a few spoonfuls a day of either olive oil or coconut oil As a supplement.
Hope you find relief soon
Leah

[Nettierud]

Hi Dave: I pm'd you a couple times over at the ETL website last winter. I am one of the former vegans that Tex talked about- I had plans to go back to it once I was in a good solid remission but I think I might be one of those people that fails to thrive without some kind of animal protein. I have fish or chicken a couple times a week and then the rest of my diet is similar to yours. You may remember that my Enterolab results were on the good end as opposed to yours but I had to eat a very bland version of the autoimmune protocol for several months because even foods on my "okay" list caused problems when I was so inflamed. Theoretically I agreed with the green juice idea but when it says to heat them gently- well I decided that soup was a better idea for me so I went that route. I soaked the nuts too and found that the ones without skins were the easiest to tolerate- cashews were my choice. I bought millet and buckwheat and the latter didn't irritate me so that was my grain of choice- mostly though, I lived on cooked starchy vegetables. I can relate to that weak feeling that you talk about, I had that as well and the added protein helps with that- hopefully you can find some subs for your soy...if you do try to reintroduce legumes at some point Navy beans seem to be gentle on the system as opposed to some of the rest. The other thing that did help me with that weak feeling was a sublingual B vitamins. As others have mentioned, the VSL#3 that I had been taking caused problems and I gave it up completely. I took glutamate powder for a month or so to help heal the leaky gut that I feel I am dealing with and that seemed helpful.
Glad to hear you are seeing some improvements, I hope everything continues to go well for you.

Nettie

[tex]

I tried digestive enzymes, but the papaya and whatever other fruit ingredients were in them didn't work for me....and that was an allergy free supplement, so I haven't been taking them.

The worst vomiting episode I ever had started a couple of hours after I tried my one and only enzyme supplement "trial". I definitely don't recommend enzyme supplements for anyone who has MC.

Maybe I should try a tablespoon of vinegar?

The pH of vinegar is actually rather mild. It's approximately the pH of the stomach when there is no food to be digested (about 4.5, if I recall correctly). When we start to eat, the pH of the stomach drops to about a third of that or less (about 1.1 to 1.5), which is extremely acidic. So I really don't understand how vinegar can do much to help digestion, because if the stomach pH is that high, digestion is not likely to be very effective, anyway.

Betaine Hydrochloride is the supplement of choice if you want to experiment with increasing your stomach pH. Take it a few minutes before you begin a meal. There is a thread where Marcia (mzh) describes how to determine the proper dose, but unfortunately I have to get back to work, so I don't have time to look it up right now.

my Enterolab score on the 11 reactive foods was 30

Oops! I must have looked at someone else's data when I looked that up. Sorry.

Tex

[ldubois7]

Sorry I snagged your thread LCDave!

Thanks for the suggestions, Leah and Tex! I will look into the betaine hydrochlorine. If pork was 2+ on Enterolab, but my least reactive meat, do you think I could have it every 3-4 days, or just stay away from it completely? It's basically the same question as I had for the corn.

:)

[Zizzle]

Welcome Dave!
I am amazed by your dedication to fine-tuning your limited diet. I'm afraid to get re-tested at Enterolab in fear of things going downhill in the last 3 years. I had MRT testing which was eye opening - moderate reactivity to 26 foods!

The basic autoimmune protocol is:

- High-nutrient, vegan diet (no dairy), rich in green vegetables
- Blended salads/smoothies and blended soups (utilizing leafy greens) to increase absorption of phytochemicals (I make VitaMix smoothies with kale/banana/avocado)
- Fresh vegetable juice (carrots, beets, parsley, kale, and other greens) (I use a juicer to make a "mash", then press the juice in a hydraulic press through a filter cloth)
- High-dose fish oils or plant-derived EPA and DHA (fish oil is best for autoimmune sufferers) (I'm taking 4 Omega-Pure 780 caps a day)
- Beneficial bowel flora (A very potent one he recommends is VSL #3) I haven't resumed this
- Natural anti-inflammatory herbs such as turmeric, quercetin, ginger, and bioflavanoids
- Multivitamin/mineral, plus additional vitamin D supplementation
- Supervised water-only fasting, used periodically, if necessary
- Dietary avoidance of salt, wheat, and oil (I was doing this anyway)

I admire Dr. Fuhrman's work, but can anyone explain why he insists the autoimmune diet be meat-free? Other "experts" say autoimmune patients need extra protein for healing. If the intent is to avoid all possible food allergens, his diet should explicitly ban nuts too. I'm almost ready to try it, but as a Blood type 0+ protein type, I wonder if it will hurt more than help. As it is, at least 80% of the meat I eat is naturally raised, grass-fed, etc.

I'm ready to do something more drastic, I just can't figure out what!

[tex]

Linda,

Here's the thread that I mentioned. Scroll down to the third post on the page at the following link — the post that begins with the sentence:

Here's the home test for betaine HCl dosage.

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... e&start=15

Yes, eating pork on a 3 to 4 day rotation should be worth a try. Note that some people who use rotation diets eat the specific foods designated for any particular day for all 3 meals on that day. Their reasoning is that as long as all 3 meals are eaten on the same day (or at least within a 24-hour period), it won't make any difference on the antibody production level, but personally, I can't agree with that logic. As far as I can determine, there is no intrinsic rule that provides a time-dependent window of opportunity during which the immune system is frozen into immobility. IMO, each discrete additional subsequent exposure to an antigen increases the level of antibody production.

The reason why the 3-day rotation works at all, is because antibody levels decline during the time interval while the antigen is being avoided. Therefore after several days, the antibody level has declined sufficiently that the uptick that results from including the antigen in a meal, is not enough for the total antibody level to exceed the threshold at which a reaction is triggered. But IMO, if several exposures are completed in one day, the resulting antibody level will be significantly higher than it would have been had only a single exposure been experienced. In that case, it would be much easier for the reaction threshold to be exceeded at the next 3-day rotation interval, especially if multiple meals involving the antigen are eaten. Do you see what I'm saying?

Therefore, if I were going to try this, initially I would try only a single exposure during each 3-day interval. If that seems to work just fine for several cycles, and I was interested in eating the food in more than one meal on that day, then I would experiment with eating it in 2 or 3 meals on that day, to see if I could get away with it.

Of course, it you've ever read about my oats trial (several years ago), then you are aware that trials of this type (involving rotation diets) can take a while for the immune system to reach the point where it suddenly screams, "Uncle!", and then the game is over.

Tex

[tex]

Zizzle,

Maybe Dr. Fuhrman is a vegan, so he feels that everyone should be.

Seriously, I don't see the logic in avoiding meat, either. Some people claim that it's more difficult to digest meat, and that might be true, if all enzymes are being produced in normal quantities. Unfortunately though, when enteritis is present, enzyme production is compromised, which makes breaking down complex carbohydrates very difficult (without fermentation). Furthermore, meat contains every essential amino acid needed for health. No other food has that potential.

And last, but certainly not least, humans evolved as carnivores, not as herbivores. The practice of eating large quantities of meat is solely responsible for our larger and more sophisticated brain, and our larger and more sophisticated brain is the primary reason why we have evolved as the dominant species on this planet. It's not nice to fool mother nature.

Tex

[ldubois7]

Tex,

"But IMO, if several exposures are completed in one day, the resulting antibody level will be significantly higher than it would have been had only a single exposure been experienced". I see your logic. I can only eat 3 meats now, so I do rotate because I'd be eating each one every day...I figure that if I eat the same meat for lunch, dinner then the following morning for breakfast, I have given my system a break. It has seemed to work so far.

"Therefore, if I were going to try this, initially I would try only a single exposure during each 3-day interval. If that seems to work just fine for several cycles, and I was interested in eating the food in more than one meal on that day, then I would experiment with eating it in 2 or 3 meals on that day, to see if I could get away with it". That exactly what I'll try.

Thanks for finding the thread on betaine HCl. It's been a busy day, I didn't search earlier!

I appreciate your help!

[Gloria]

Linda,

I wouldn't try vinegar if you suspect you have a mast cell problem.

If you want to try a corn snack, I've been eating Fritos Scoops, which have less salt than Fritos and are GF. They're designed for dipping in salsa, I believe, but I've dipped them in a mango spread (like a pudding) instead. You could dip them into any type of sauce or spread that you can handle. Warning: I've gained a couple of pounds since snacking on them. I'm cutting back on them a little now.

Gloria

[ldubois7]

Tex,
If I recall correctly, the conclusion from your oats experiment was that even with a rotation diet there are some foods you simply can not eat. Is that correct?

Gloria,
Thanks! I found an organic cereal that is just milled corn and salt. I thought I'd try that first, but it may still be too early in my healing to attempt it. I haven't tried any dips yet either.
Have you tried amaranth flour? I struck out with buckwheat....same as you, I had the rumbling in my belly each night... :( I think it just has too much fiber. I may have to try almond flour even though it was my most reactive nut, but it was a 2+....but I am striking out with alternative flours. I have been eating sunflower seed butter, though. Now, I read it is high in histamines, so I'll switch to pumpkin seed butter.....jeez, if it's not one thing it's another!

Linda

[tex]

Tex,
If I recall correctly, the conclusion from your oats experiment was that even with a rotation diet there are some foods you simply can not eat. Is that correct?

Yes. I hadn't eaten oats in many years, so I apparently had no antibodies in my system. But even with a 3-day rotation (actually 3 days, then 4 days, then repeat), I slowly built up an increasing antibody level that eventually triggered a reaction, after 6 weeks. And once the reaction began, it lasted for 6 weeks, even though I stopped eating oats immediately at the first reaction. After that, once my system was primed, anytime I tried any oats, I always reacted within 3 or 4 hours. So I had to conclude that apparently I am just as sensitive to avenin as I am to gluten.

Tex

[Gloria]

Have you tried amaranth flour?

Yes, I used to make amaranth muffins. I eventually had the gurgling at night and had to give it up. It's very nutritious, though.

Gloria

[LCDave]

I've been following the Dr. Fuhrman recommendations and I'm doing a LOT better (gained back to a healthy weight, BM 2x or occasionally 3x a day, without urgency, generally reasonably solid stool). I could pretty comfortably live like this, but of course I wouldn't mind not having the dietary restrictions and being cured altogether if such a thing is possible. So my questions now are:

1) Might budesonide be indicated now? I seem to be eating the right things, might it knock the MC out altogether, or is it primarily for symptom relief to allow healing?

2) Is it dangerous to "test" oneself for gluten sensitivity (or other intolerances)? Would it "set you back" to try it, or would it be obvious that it was a problem and then you could just stop it and take up where you left off?

Thanks.

[tex]

1) Might budesonide be indicated now? I seem to be eating the right things, might it knock the MC out altogether, or is it primarily for symptom relief to allow healing?

The corticosteroids will mask symptoms for most people, but they do not promote healing. In fact, research shows that they actually retard healing. The only way to heal the gut is to stop the process that causes the inflammation in the first place. IOW, we have to avoid all of the foods or medications that cause our immune system to produce antibodies. As long as we avoid those foods/medications, our gut can heal and/or remain in stable remission.

2) Is it dangerous to "test" oneself for gluten sensitivity (or other intolerances)? Would it "set you back" to try it, or would it be obvious that it was a problem and then you could just stop it and take up where you left off?

I wouldn't call it "dangerous". It's more like "unnecessary punishment", or "cruel and unusual punishment", depending on how we look at it.

Doing a gluten challenge can cause a significant setback in our recovery, because gluten actually causes significant physical damage to the mucosal cells of our intestines. By comparison, while reactions to challenges of other food sensitivities may seem to be as severe (or even more severe), the reality is that they are nowhere near as likely to cause medium to long-term damage, the way that gluten can. Therefore, reactions to challenges of other food sensitivities are usually not as risky, and not as "damaging" as a gluten reaction.

Of course if you react within a day or 2, you will be able to stop before any very significant damage is done. But sometimes we don't react immediately to gluten. Please be aware that if you decide to do a gluten challenge, in some cases it can take weeks or even months for the reaction to begin, depending on how much healing has taken place (IOW depending on your antibody level at the start). In a situation such as that, a considerable amount of damage may accrue before the clinical symptoms begin to be obvious. IMO, this is particularly true for those of us who happen to have a celiac gene, even though we may not have a celiac diagnosis.

It's interesting how everyone thinks that their food sensitivities are only temporary. I was the same way, back when I was recovering, and while I always continued to avoid gluten, 100 % of the time, I couldn't keep from testing dairy and corn. LOL. I guess that's human nature. After being in remission for 10 years though, I no longer challenge my food sensitivities. I have long ago accepted that they are permanent.

Good luck, and please keep us informed if you decide to do some challenges.

Tex

[LCDave]

Just what I wanted to know, thanks!