Bacterial imbalance found in Crohn's disease

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:19 pm

Shocker

We're getting closer to some real answers on IBD!

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/crohns-disease ... 07983.html

gluten · Post by **gluten** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:09 pm

Hi Zizzle, Interesting. Now, that they recognize the cause, " they should be able to do stool tests to look at the bacterias that are in imbalance" Today, after getting a e-mail about my hair test that showed a low Na/P ratio. This has me getting all my hair analysis reports and to see if this has been a chronic issue. One of the reasons for a low Na/P ratio is a chronic infection which includes the intestines. This ratio is also connected with muscle catabolism. Jon

Post by **tex** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:05 pm

Jon,

The researchers involved in that study certainly didn't identify the cause of anything, let alone Crohn's disease, (at least not according to that article). It contains no new information, and proves nothing, it only suggests associations that have been common knowledge for decades.

Or did I miss something in the article?

Tex

gluten · Post by **gluten** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:16 am

Tex, What, I found interesting, is that a doctor from Mass General Hospital made the statement. The medical community is finally recognizing the results of a unbalanced flora. Also it may help them realize that what happens in the G.I tract can effect the health of the host, and may help them find the negative bacterias, toxins or virus's and provide an effective treatment. Jon

Post by **tex** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:50 am

Jon,

I started dilligently researching IBDs roughly 12 years ago, and back then, the suspicion of a bacterial origin for IBDs was a common theme, and so was the concept that gut bacteria influence many health issues previously thought to be unrelated. A lot of additional research has been done since then, but for that doctor to claim that this is new information is little more than an admission that he is either just now getting around to reading research reports from 10 or 12 years ago, or maybe he is just now getting around to taking them more seriously, but either way, it's not news.

This discussion board will be 9 years old in May, and if you look back to those early years in the archives, you will find that we discussed these issues back then. The wheels of progress turn excruciatingly slowly when it comes to gaining a better medical understanding of IBDs. Researchers would rather spend their time developing expensive drug treatments for IBDs, because that pays so much better than learning more about the actual causes of IBDs (which pays virtually nothing). In the backs of their minds, they're probably worried that someday someone might accidentally discover what actually causes IBDs, and develop a cure for them. That would be devastating for the huge research, treatment, and pharmaceutical networks that make billions of dollars from these diseases.

That means that the bottom line is, meaningful research is not likely to be a priority. And continuing to treat the symptoms will continue to be the preferred routine, since so many people's livelihood depends on a continuation of the status quo. But that's just my pragmatic opinion.

Tex

gluten · Post by **gluten** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:58 am

Hi Tex, I agree. The wheel has to keep turning even if it is at the expensive of our health. Jon

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:23 pm

associations that have been common knowledge for decades

Totally agree Jon. This may have been common knowledge among alternative medicine circles, but everyday MDs have been blind to it, or in complete denial. If the AMA can get on board, then maybe we'll get somewhere. Hell, maybe they'll even acknowledge the leaky gut phenomenon Dr. Fassano and others have been championing for more than a decade!

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:04 pm

The problem, as I see it, is that there is no understanding of what the ideal types and amounts of bacteria should be in the gut. One article I read identified over 5000 different strains of bacteria in one sample. I guess I won't get excited until they have some kind of clinical recommendation based upon the findings. Sigh.

Polly

Post by **tex** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:35 pm

Polly,

I totally agree. You have hit the nail right square on the head. And considering the complexity of tracking down and documenting the normal functional role of every one of those bacteria (while also noting any adverse consequences that the various respective strains may impose under certain conditions), we may be literally light years away from understanding gut bacteria well enough to make any truly intelligent claims about them, let alone figuring out how to harness their power to our own benefit.

And to really complicate the equation, each and every one of us has our own custom (ideal) blend that works best for us. The problem is about as mind-boggling as a problem can possibly be. It's far more complicated than the problem of trying to map the universe and figure out how or where life first began.

Love,
Tex

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

tex wrote:Polly,

I totally agree. You have hit the nail right square on the head. And considering the complexity of tracking down and documenting the normal functional role of every one of those bacteria (while also noting any adverse consequences that the various respective strains may impose under certain conditions), we may be literally light years away from understanding gut bacteria well enough to make any truly intelligent claims about them, let alone figuring out how to harness their power to our own benefit.

And to really complicate the equation, each and every one of us has our own custom (ideal) blend that works best for us. The problem is about as mind-boggling as a problem can possibly be. It's far more complicated than the problem of trying to map the universe and figure out how or where life first began.

Love,
Tex

Polly and Tex,

This is what I figure as well. So little is known about gut bacteria and the subject is so complex given the number of types of bacteria and the complexity and individuality of their interactions that to conclude anything more than that they are most likely important in both health a disease seems woefully premature.

Jean

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:17 pm

there is no understanding of what the ideal types and amounts of bacteria should be in the gut.

Yet these articles refer to the various bacteria identified as pathological or beneficial. How do they know which is which? Here's another article.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/crohn-s-b ... -1.2569765

Post by **tex** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:06 pm

Zizzle wrote:How do they know which is which?

They don't know. They also don't know why the bacteria might be associated with the condition. IOW, they don't know whether the bacteria might initially promote the development of the disease, or whether they might just simply be opportunistic, and they are there because the disease creates an environment that allows them to thrive.

They are flattering themselves by pretending that they know what they're doing, when in fact, for all practical purposes, they really don't know any more about the reasons why those bacteria are there than we do. And I don't know about you, but I'll admit right up front that I know precious little about why they're there, except that you can bet that they are there for their own benefit, not ours.

Tex

gluten · Post by **gluten** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:11 pm

Hi Zizzle, Great post. If you look at the large study from Sweden about the connection of antibiotics and gluten sensitivity, it makes the connection. They state that " The research showed that the microbial balance was disrupted ". Also, " They identified specfic bacteria that are normally inreased or decreased with the onset of the potentially debalitating IBD". This information may help find a treatment to balance the flora. Since many of these bacterias live in a biofilm, " Do we have to use an enzyme to degrade the bioflims and introduce the correct balance of bacteria's". The site shows that they are progressing in their research. Jon