You Read It Here First — About Glucosamine Sulphate
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You Read It Here First — About Glucosamine Sulphate
Hi All,
Here's some information that you won't find anywhere in the medical literature. And although I'm only basing this claim on statistics derived from a trial cohort of only 1 ( ), I'm reasonably confident that the information is valid. Here's the background information:
For approximately 14 years I took glucosamine sulphate (with chondroitin). I started taking it because I was having knee problems and I was subjecting my knees (and the rest of my body) to almost daily heavy, repetitive load-bearing work, stacking 50 lb. bags of corn on wooden pallets, 1 ton (40 bags) per pallet. This was part of my corn-processing business and we worked long days, and 7-day weeks, back in those days. All the older workers I knew who did such work, had pretty much destroyed their knees and hips by the time they reached middle age (and I was already at middle age at this point), and many/most of those older workers could barely hobble around, let alone continue to work.
The glucosamine worked like a charm, and today I give it credit for preserving my knees and hips. A surprising number of the folks with whom I went to high school have either already had knee or hip replacements, or they are planning such a procedure, or they are dreading the day when they will inevitably have to cave in and have it done, if they hope to continue to be able to walk. And most of them had office jobs. By contrast, my knees and hips are in great condition. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I doubt that.
But here's the reason for this post:
As I have aged, I have done progressively less of that load-bearing work, and a little over a year ago, I stopped doing it altogether. Roughly a year ago, I started noticing that when I would wake up in the mornings occasionally I would be unable to fold one or more of my fingers into a fist. Sometimes only one hand would be involved, and at other times both hands would have the problem. Usually, it was only one finger per hand. Sometimes I would wake up during the night, with hand pain, because I apparently had tried to fold my fingers while I was sleeping, and the pain awakened me.
The problem seemed to be a nodule on the extensor tendons (on the backs of the fingers) in the proximal phalange portion of the fingers (the section nearest the hand). IOW, the perceived nodule would not pass through the ligament passageway at the joint between the proximal and intermediate phalanges, thus preventing the intermediate phalange of the finger from properly closing toward the palm. I was afraid to force movement, since I didn't want to tear a ligament — that would be a bummer for sure. If I repeatedly flexed the finger, though, eventually it would relent, and I would be able to fold the finger. If I didn't keep my hand clinched, though, sometimes it would happen again, the next time I tried to fold my fingers. Usually, during the daytime, it was never a problem, because normal use prevented the problem from redeveloping. Basically, the problem appeared to be that while I was sleeping, nodules were forming on those ligaments.
A few years earlier (when I was taking a statin), I had a similar problem in that I would wake up with completely stiff fingers, that I couldn't fold down. IOW, they were rigid. I'm not sure if this was a joint problem or a ligament problem, but it appeared to be a (stiff) joint problem. This was a different problem — they were frozen in position, and I had to physically fold them down with the other hand, in order to move them. But in that situation, I never noticed any effects that would have been caused by nodules on ligaments, so I don't believe any nodules existed. At any rate, I stopped taking the statin, and after a few weeks, that problem completely resolved.
I can't rule out the possibility that the use of a statin (for roughly 9 months) might have contributed to the nodule problem that developed later, but I stopped taking the statin almost 2 years before I began to notice the ligament/nodule problem.
So here's how I solved the mystery:
Monique mentioned to me that she was beginning to suspect that the glucosamine sulphate she was taking might be causing at least some of her GI symptoms. And as she later posted on the board, discontinuing the use of the glucosamine did indeed seem to help. So that brought glucosamine up on my radar, and I began to wonder about it in my own situation. On February 2, I stopped taking glucosamine sulphate, and low and behold, after about a week, I seemed to be free of the problem with nodules on ligaments.
Here we are several weeks later, and the problem has not returned, so I have to conclude that long-term use of glucosamine sulphate was at least a major part of the cause of this unusual (medically undocumented, as far as I can tell) problem. So thank you glucosamine sulphate, for saving my knees and hips, and thank you Monique, for saving me from the glucosamine sulphate.
Love,
Tex
Here's some information that you won't find anywhere in the medical literature. And although I'm only basing this claim on statistics derived from a trial cohort of only 1 ( ), I'm reasonably confident that the information is valid. Here's the background information:
For approximately 14 years I took glucosamine sulphate (with chondroitin). I started taking it because I was having knee problems and I was subjecting my knees (and the rest of my body) to almost daily heavy, repetitive load-bearing work, stacking 50 lb. bags of corn on wooden pallets, 1 ton (40 bags) per pallet. This was part of my corn-processing business and we worked long days, and 7-day weeks, back in those days. All the older workers I knew who did such work, had pretty much destroyed their knees and hips by the time they reached middle age (and I was already at middle age at this point), and many/most of those older workers could barely hobble around, let alone continue to work.
The glucosamine worked like a charm, and today I give it credit for preserving my knees and hips. A surprising number of the folks with whom I went to high school have either already had knee or hip replacements, or they are planning such a procedure, or they are dreading the day when they will inevitably have to cave in and have it done, if they hope to continue to be able to walk. And most of them had office jobs. By contrast, my knees and hips are in great condition. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I doubt that.
But here's the reason for this post:
As I have aged, I have done progressively less of that load-bearing work, and a little over a year ago, I stopped doing it altogether. Roughly a year ago, I started noticing that when I would wake up in the mornings occasionally I would be unable to fold one or more of my fingers into a fist. Sometimes only one hand would be involved, and at other times both hands would have the problem. Usually, it was only one finger per hand. Sometimes I would wake up during the night, with hand pain, because I apparently had tried to fold my fingers while I was sleeping, and the pain awakened me.
The problem seemed to be a nodule on the extensor tendons (on the backs of the fingers) in the proximal phalange portion of the fingers (the section nearest the hand). IOW, the perceived nodule would not pass through the ligament passageway at the joint between the proximal and intermediate phalanges, thus preventing the intermediate phalange of the finger from properly closing toward the palm. I was afraid to force movement, since I didn't want to tear a ligament — that would be a bummer for sure. If I repeatedly flexed the finger, though, eventually it would relent, and I would be able to fold the finger. If I didn't keep my hand clinched, though, sometimes it would happen again, the next time I tried to fold my fingers. Usually, during the daytime, it was never a problem, because normal use prevented the problem from redeveloping. Basically, the problem appeared to be that while I was sleeping, nodules were forming on those ligaments.
A few years earlier (when I was taking a statin), I had a similar problem in that I would wake up with completely stiff fingers, that I couldn't fold down. IOW, they were rigid. I'm not sure if this was a joint problem or a ligament problem, but it appeared to be a (stiff) joint problem. This was a different problem — they were frozen in position, and I had to physically fold them down with the other hand, in order to move them. But in that situation, I never noticed any effects that would have been caused by nodules on ligaments, so I don't believe any nodules existed. At any rate, I stopped taking the statin, and after a few weeks, that problem completely resolved.
I can't rule out the possibility that the use of a statin (for roughly 9 months) might have contributed to the nodule problem that developed later, but I stopped taking the statin almost 2 years before I began to notice the ligament/nodule problem.
So here's how I solved the mystery:
Monique mentioned to me that she was beginning to suspect that the glucosamine sulphate she was taking might be causing at least some of her GI symptoms. And as she later posted on the board, discontinuing the use of the glucosamine did indeed seem to help. So that brought glucosamine up on my radar, and I began to wonder about it in my own situation. On February 2, I stopped taking glucosamine sulphate, and low and behold, after about a week, I seemed to be free of the problem with nodules on ligaments.
Here we are several weeks later, and the problem has not returned, so I have to conclude that long-term use of glucosamine sulphate was at least a major part of the cause of this unusual (medically undocumented, as far as I can tell) problem. So thank you glucosamine sulphate, for saving my knees and hips, and thank you Monique, for saving me from the glucosamine sulphate.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
- wmonique2
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You read it here first---
Well, la di da...it took me the whole month of January to figure it out (while I was miserably sick) and as the medical detective that you are, you connected the dots a lot sooner than I did...Conclusion (in your case): too much of good thing can be bad ;-)
Bravo, Tex!
Love,
Monique
Bravo, Tex!
Love,
Monique
Diagnosed 2011 with LC. Currently on Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN)
- Gabes-Apg
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Ummmm, the coffee is still absorbing so I might be a bit off track here......
So once MC is active in our systems, lots of things become haywire.
Where we could tolerate glucosamine sulphate and have benefit from it prior to mc, after Dx, different story.....
If this is so, there is a really weird chemical reaction during the gut absorption stage???
So once MC is active in our systems, lots of things become haywire.
Where we could tolerate glucosamine sulphate and have benefit from it prior to mc, after Dx, different story.....
If this is so, there is a really weird chemical reaction during the gut absorption stage???
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
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You read it here first---
I took MSM (2000 mg) and it didn't do any good to my gut. So I stopped. I buy MSM now in liquid and apply it to my knee. It was better before when I took it orally since it took care of other joints not just my knee.
Monique
Monique
Diagnosed 2011 with LC. Currently on Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN)
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you read it here first---
I buy the liquid that is sold to drink but instead I apply it...don't know if you can find it in liquid otherwise. It was by accident. I saw it in liquid and bought it, didn't realize that it was meant for drinking. Now they have creams but they don't contain near as much. Too diluted to make any difference.
Monique
Monique
Diagnosed 2011 with LC. Currently on Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN)
Good question. We don't have enough data to make a respectable judgment, but the first 12 or 13 years were great, in my case. I have a hunch that the problem came from using it after I no longer needed it. Any medication or supplement can cause issues if we take it when we don't need it.Lesh wrote:So, can we conclude that we should take it for years and then stop? :)
Yes, but I had help — by comparison, you didn't have anyone helping you out by pointing out that the product might be causing a problem.Monique wrote:you connected the dots a lot sooner than I did...
No, I started taking it a couple of years after my digestive symptoms had already begun (but before they became so bad that I caved in and went to the doctor. It's impossible to tell whether MC had any effect on it.Gabes wrote:Where we could tolerate glucosamine sulphate and have benefit from it prior to mc, after Dx, different story.....
I've never taken MSM, because I've always believed that glucosamine is much more effective (and I still consider it a much better choice). Just don't take it for more than 12 or 13 years, if your knees are not bothering you.Marcia wrote:Maybe we should take MSM instead?
The bottom line is that I still believe it's the best product for the job, but there might be a practical limit to how long some of us can use it, especially if there are no symptoms to justify its continued use after many years.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I took Celebrex for years pre-LC DX. I also took glucosamine-chondroitin. And I still had pain.
After the LC diagnosis, I stopped both, along with gluten. I actually had less pain. I know I will need a knee replacement eventually due to an old sports injury from high school. I now take krill oil daily, and exercise (with modifications for the knee). The goal is to hold off the knee replacement for as long as possible.
My rheumatologist prescribed Voltaren (NSAID) gel for a topical, and it is helping a lot.
Tex, knitting keeps my fingers nice and limber; you should try it, LOL.
After the LC diagnosis, I stopped both, along with gluten. I actually had less pain. I know I will need a knee replacement eventually due to an old sports injury from high school. I now take krill oil daily, and exercise (with modifications for the knee). The goal is to hold off the knee replacement for as long as possible.
My rheumatologist prescribed Voltaren (NSAID) gel for a topical, and it is helping a lot.
Tex, knitting keeps my fingers nice and limber; you should try it, LOL.
Suze
Now that you mention it, I can remember learning to knit when I was a kid. I can't remember ever actually finishing any knitting project, though.Suze wrote:Tex, knitting keeps my fingers nice and limber; you should try it, LOL.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hmmm, I have begun to have joint stiffness in the last few months, hands, elbows, ankles. I was considering taking glucosamine, but am now doubtful reading this, that it could backfire. I am also considering a 6 week run of MSM, as I'd heard it's not something to do indefinitely, and that length was recommended. I'd heard good for joints, and allergies. Has anyone found MSM helpful? I'd read 3000-6000 mg per day, based on weight.
Hi Lisa,
Please don't let me discourage you from trying glucosamine. Remember that I took a full dose virtually every day for about 14 years, and for over 13 of those years it did a great job of protecting my joints without any noticeable side effects.
I stopped using it a little over 6 weeks ago, and today I've noticed some knee pain. If that continues for another day or so, I'll probably begin taking it again, and if it resolves the pain, I may cut the dose in half after a few weeks, and try using that as a maintenance dose. Previously, I always used a full dose, but that's probably not necessary in the long term, and it may have been the reason why I eventually had problems.
Of course your joint stiffness could be caused by cross-contamination of something in your diet, also. I had that problem a few years age, and after confirming it with an EnteroLab test, I tracked it down to cross-contamination by gluten.
Tex
Please don't let me discourage you from trying glucosamine. Remember that I took a full dose virtually every day for about 14 years, and for over 13 of those years it did a great job of protecting my joints without any noticeable side effects.
I stopped using it a little over 6 weeks ago, and today I've noticed some knee pain. If that continues for another day or so, I'll probably begin taking it again, and if it resolves the pain, I may cut the dose in half after a few weeks, and try using that as a maintenance dose. Previously, I always used a full dose, but that's probably not necessary in the long term, and it may have been the reason why I eventually had problems.
Of course your joint stiffness could be caused by cross-contamination of something in your diet, also. I had that problem a few years age, and after confirming it with an EnteroLab test, I tracked it down to cross-contamination by gluten.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.