http://inhealth.cnn.com/the-crohns-dise ... id=t1_rss1
I found the above article involving Probiatics and Chrones disease. I hope I am not violating any rules for posting.
I wanted to know if the same concept that is discussed in the article is a method that may also work with MC. The article talks about "resetting" the digestive system and it also talks about comsuming perhaps 3 times the amount that is recomebded amount. All of the probiatics that I have had recommend that you take once a day. Is it okay to cosume triple the amount?
I would appreciate any and all input from any ones experience. Thank you so much in advance.
Suggestions for Probiatic brands and consumption amount.
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Hi,
You can find all sorts of success stories for probiotics on the internet, and on various discussion boards (including this one). But here's the problem:
Despite a few individual successes (only a handful of members here), precious few people who have MC are able to actually see any benefits from the use of probiotics. In fact, compared with the success rate, the number of members here who have tried probiotics and discovered that probiotics made their symptoms much worse, significantly outnumber the examples of success. Most results fall somewhere in between (IOW, most members can see little or no difference when they take a probiotic).
In general, according to the accumulated experiences of the members here, it appears that taking a probiotic during the recovery phase can be very risky, and typically results in adverse results (such as a relapse of severe symptoms). By contrast, after we are in remission, most (not all) of us seem to be able to tolerate at least certain probiotics (though not necessarily all probiotics), without any adverse effects. The problem with this scenario is that after we are in remission, why would we need a probiotic? IOW, when we seem to desperately need the benefits of a probiotic, they usually just make us sicker, but when we don't need them, they work just fine.
YMMV.
That said, many members here find that they can tolerate home-grown probiotics much better than they can tolerate commercial products (that are mostly made to sell, and designed to maximize the profits of the manufacturer, rather than to maximize the benefits to the consumer). Examples of these include sauerkraut, kefir, kombucha, etc. IMO homemade is always better than store-bought, when it comes to food and food-related items.
Tex
You can find all sorts of success stories for probiotics on the internet, and on various discussion boards (including this one). But here's the problem:
Despite a few individual successes (only a handful of members here), precious few people who have MC are able to actually see any benefits from the use of probiotics. In fact, compared with the success rate, the number of members here who have tried probiotics and discovered that probiotics made their symptoms much worse, significantly outnumber the examples of success. Most results fall somewhere in between (IOW, most members can see little or no difference when they take a probiotic).
In general, according to the accumulated experiences of the members here, it appears that taking a probiotic during the recovery phase can be very risky, and typically results in adverse results (such as a relapse of severe symptoms). By contrast, after we are in remission, most (not all) of us seem to be able to tolerate at least certain probiotics (though not necessarily all probiotics), without any adverse effects. The problem with this scenario is that after we are in remission, why would we need a probiotic? IOW, when we seem to desperately need the benefits of a probiotic, they usually just make us sicker, but when we don't need them, they work just fine.
YMMV.That said, many members here find that they can tolerate home-grown probiotics much better than they can tolerate commercial products (that are mostly made to sell, and designed to maximize the profits of the manufacturer, rather than to maximize the benefits to the consumer). Examples of these include sauerkraut, kefir, kombucha, etc. IMO homemade is always better than store-bought, when it comes to food and food-related items.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I'll chime in with my own experience, but want to say up front that I seem to be in the extreme minority when it comes to successful probiotic use among this group. I'm not sure why that is, I'm certainly not known for my ability to tolerate meds and supplements very well. My only guess is that I have mastocytic colitis, while most others here have CC or LC, and maybe that makes a difference. Also, I don't have huge problems with diarrhea like most people here. I cycle between constipation and loose stools.
Anyhow, I have been taking a very high powered probiotic (VSL#3, pill form, 112.5 billion bacteria per capsule) since the end of October, a few weeks into my current flare. My doctor started me on 2 pills a day for 6 weeks, then down to 1 a day for a maintenance dose. I was nervous to try them, but I promised myself that unless they made me unbearably worse I would stick with them for a month to give them a fair shot. The first couple of days I noticed no difference, the third day I started noting an increase in gas and bloating, and then a couple of days later I started feeling like I had a mild form of the flu (body aches, chills, wooziness). That went on for a week or so and then those symptoms started to fade, and by the time I had been on them for 3 weeks I could tell that they were finally helping a bit with the colitis. I noticed a slight firming of my stools and a little less frequency and urgency.
That is about as far as they have taken me colitis-wise, so I certainly can't say that they worked any miracles in that department. The main reason I have chosen to continue them is actually not so much for help with the colitis, but because of an apparent boost to my immune system. I am a mother to 2 boys, ages 2 and 4 who both spend time with other kids their age and, as a result, we are CONSTANTLY dealing with viruses, sinus infections, strep, ect. Before I started the probiotic I was battling illnesses right and left, literally spending at least 2 of every 4 weeks sick along with my kids for the last 3 years. Since starting the VSL#3 5 months ago I have only caught 2 illnesses: a stomach virus at Christmas and a cold/sinus infection that I am at the tail end of now. I haven't made any other changes that I can attribute the improved immune system to.
So, problably not what you were hoping to hear. For help with the colitis, I can really only give them a C+, but I think they do help my overall health in a pretty big way. Unfortunately, like I said in the beginning, it seems that most people with MC don't really tolerate probiotics at all, at least not while they're actively flaring.
Good luck to you!
Anyhow, I have been taking a very high powered probiotic (VSL#3, pill form, 112.5 billion bacteria per capsule) since the end of October, a few weeks into my current flare. My doctor started me on 2 pills a day for 6 weeks, then down to 1 a day for a maintenance dose. I was nervous to try them, but I promised myself that unless they made me unbearably worse I would stick with them for a month to give them a fair shot. The first couple of days I noticed no difference, the third day I started noting an increase in gas and bloating, and then a couple of days later I started feeling like I had a mild form of the flu (body aches, chills, wooziness). That went on for a week or so and then those symptoms started to fade, and by the time I had been on them for 3 weeks I could tell that they were finally helping a bit with the colitis. I noticed a slight firming of my stools and a little less frequency and urgency.
That is about as far as they have taken me colitis-wise, so I certainly can't say that they worked any miracles in that department. The main reason I have chosen to continue them is actually not so much for help with the colitis, but because of an apparent boost to my immune system. I am a mother to 2 boys, ages 2 and 4 who both spend time with other kids their age and, as a result, we are CONSTANTLY dealing with viruses, sinus infections, strep, ect. Before I started the probiotic I was battling illnesses right and left, literally spending at least 2 of every 4 weeks sick along with my kids for the last 3 years. Since starting the VSL#3 5 months ago I have only caught 2 illnesses: a stomach virus at Christmas and a cold/sinus infection that I am at the tail end of now. I haven't made any other changes that I can attribute the improved immune system to.
So, problably not what you were hoping to hear. For help with the colitis, I can really only give them a C+, but I think they do help my overall health in a pretty big way. Unfortunately, like I said in the beginning, it seems that most people with MC don't really tolerate probiotics at all, at least not while they're actively flaring.
Good luck to you!
-
showstopa
- Little Blue Penguin
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:11 am
- Location: chicago
- Contact:
Thank you guys for all of your responses. If it is anything that I have learned during this period of dealing with MC, it is the fact that I need to check in with my MC family on this board if I want insight on a situation. You guys have proven time and time again to be more helpful than even any of the doctors that I have seen.
I have been taking a generic probiotic for a few years (walmart version), and I don't really see any difference. Then read this article and discovered that this person was tripling her dosage. But like many cases, what is good for one condition is not necessarily good for another. Especially ours! Its always good to check in with you guys!!!!! By checking in with you I avoid possible episodes of being sick and I get to save money that I don't have to be experimenting with a million different things. I have already wasted tons of money on trying stuff that did not work before i realized that i need to check in with you guys first. So as always thanks again for everything my MC family!!!!!!
I have been taking a generic probiotic for a few years (walmart version), and I don't really see any difference. Then read this article and discovered that this person was tripling her dosage. But like many cases, what is good for one condition is not necessarily good for another. Especially ours! Its always good to check in with you guys!!!!! By checking in with you I avoid possible episodes of being sick and I get to save money that I don't have to be experimenting with a million different things. I have already wasted tons of money on trying stuff that did not work before i realized that i need to check in with you guys first. So as always thanks again for everything my MC family!!!!!!
-
Sheila
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 5:10 am
- Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl
My GI doc prescribed Florastor (Saccharomyces boulardii) almost 5 years ago for what he thought might be C. difficile. After four weeks of a horrid antibiotic, numerous poop tests, it was determined I didn't have C. diff. After a colonoscopy with biopsies he found I had CC, exactly like my mother who was also his patient. I have continued to take S. boulardii ever since. It is a yeast that seems to help many with Crohns and other IBDs.
I'm rethinking taking it now that I'm off budesinide and having periodic D. Actually, I'm hoping it is caused by something like a probiotic rather than what I suspect, grains.
Sheila W
I'm rethinking taking it now that I'm off budesinide and having periodic D. Actually, I'm hoping it is caused by something like a probiotic rather than what I suspect, grains.
Sheila W
To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.
A person who never made a mistake never tried something new. Einstein
A person who never made a mistake never tried something new. Einstein
I've tried numerous brands and strains of probiotics, some going for $50 a bottle suggested by my doctor. None of them made me feel better or worse so I stopped taking them.
Deb
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead, where there is no path, and leave a trail.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
2007 CC
2013 thyroid cancer- total thyroidectomy
2013 Hashimoto's - numbers always "normal"
2017 Lyme's Disease
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead, where there is no path, and leave a trail.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
2007 CC
2013 thyroid cancer- total thyroidectomy
2013 Hashimoto's - numbers always "normal"
2017 Lyme's Disease
I don't have adverse effects with probiotics, though not sure if I have positive but I have been taking Healthy Trinity as a friend with ulcerative colitis says this helped her achieve and maintain remission. She also said her father has rheumatoid arthritis and that his symptoms abate when he takes it. However, you have to be careful how you buy them as if they are left in a hot mail box, the strains will die. I bought mine from Amazon, but it's been cold here, so I'm not worried about them getting hot.
Since they don't seem to hurt me, I want to give them a good try for at least a month.
Since they don't seem to hurt me, I want to give them a good try for at least a month.
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
The research about probiotics is increasing.
There is more focus on individual strains, rather than one capsule with 5 or 6 strains.
My research has shown that unless you know what bacteria or yeast is causing issues in the gut, it would be a lottery to figure out which strain one should use.
The tricky part, is that the practitioners (wholistic / nutritionist therapists etc) that can access the testing to get this insight tend to be expensive to see (and not subsidised by govt/insurances) and the tests to give this info also are not subsidised by govt/insurance policies, so tend to be expensive.
The other aspect is getting the timing right, do it too early in the healing process, when the villi is still damaged, and gut permeability is high, it won't work. Do it too long after may also affect optimum achievement. And given the costs and time involved (it can 3 months to get benefit) I don't think the outcome of 'some improvement' justifies the outlay.
In Aus, For me to do testing, get the right strain and stick with it for 3 months would cost $600.
For me even if I had the spare $600 it is better spent having acupuncture each month for a year to reduce inflammation, help the liver and adrenals.
If I win the lotto or have a spare $2000 -$3500 at some stage, one of the first things on my wish list is that I will do a gut cleanse, rebuild with colostrum (IgG and IgA set up) and a targeted and monitored probiotic treatment plan to optimise gut wellness. The whole thing will take 9 months. I will need to be working part time during the early part of the
Some recent discussions on other threads in the past couple of months, it has been medically/scientifically proven that there is no way that you can treat or set up the gut to be 'pure' as it was when we were born.
And depending on the persons age, and any other health issues, even doing a dedicated protocol may not improve things very much, so long as people understand that improvement is not guaranteed.
The other aspect with pro-biotics, if you have microbe/yeast issues, and take probiotics, some carbs and some sugars feeding the bad stuff will limit the effectiveness of the probiotics.
Also, if you have any teeth gum issues (common with MC'ers) every time you eat and drink, the bad stuff from your mouth goes into the gut, and this too will reduce the effectiveness of the pro-biotics.
My acupuncturist explained it as,
You are renovating a house, if have to take walls back to original, and do each layer the right way, at the right time, with the right stuff. Use the wrong stuff, or rush it at the wrong time, it won't come out as good.
Hope this helps
There is more focus on individual strains, rather than one capsule with 5 or 6 strains.
My research has shown that unless you know what bacteria or yeast is causing issues in the gut, it would be a lottery to figure out which strain one should use.
The tricky part, is that the practitioners (wholistic / nutritionist therapists etc) that can access the testing to get this insight tend to be expensive to see (and not subsidised by govt/insurances) and the tests to give this info also are not subsidised by govt/insurance policies, so tend to be expensive.
The other aspect is getting the timing right, do it too early in the healing process, when the villi is still damaged, and gut permeability is high, it won't work. Do it too long after may also affect optimum achievement. And given the costs and time involved (it can 3 months to get benefit) I don't think the outcome of 'some improvement' justifies the outlay.
In Aus, For me to do testing, get the right strain and stick with it for 3 months would cost $600.
For me even if I had the spare $600 it is better spent having acupuncture each month for a year to reduce inflammation, help the liver and adrenals.
If I win the lotto or have a spare $2000 -$3500 at some stage, one of the first things on my wish list is that I will do a gut cleanse, rebuild with colostrum (IgG and IgA set up) and a targeted and monitored probiotic treatment plan to optimise gut wellness. The whole thing will take 9 months. I will need to be working part time during the early part of the
Some recent discussions on other threads in the past couple of months, it has been medically/scientifically proven that there is no way that you can treat or set up the gut to be 'pure' as it was when we were born.
And depending on the persons age, and any other health issues, even doing a dedicated protocol may not improve things very much, so long as people understand that improvement is not guaranteed.
The other aspect with pro-biotics, if you have microbe/yeast issues, and take probiotics, some carbs and some sugars feeding the bad stuff will limit the effectiveness of the probiotics.
Also, if you have any teeth gum issues (common with MC'ers) every time you eat and drink, the bad stuff from your mouth goes into the gut, and this too will reduce the effectiveness of the pro-biotics.
My acupuncturist explained it as,
You are renovating a house, if have to take walls back to original, and do each layer the right way, at the right time, with the right stuff. Use the wrong stuff, or rush it at the wrong time, it won't come out as good.
Hope this helps
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama