How much should I take?
How much do I get from oil spray?
The Recommended Daily Allowance
Age 14-18 - Men 410mg Women 360mg Pregnancy 400mg Lactation 360mg
Age 19-30 - Men 400mg Women 310mg Pregnancy 350mg Lactation 310mg
Age 31+ - Men 420mg Women 320mg Pregnancy 360mg Lactation 320mg
The RDA for magnesium is also expressed in the mg/kg and is roughly 6mg per kg (2.2 lb) of body weight
(this standard helps to determine magnesium requirements for those that are overweight)
Many experts feel the RDA should be increased. Twenty years of research shows that under ideal conditions, approximately 300mg of magnesium is required merely to offset the daily losses [highlight done by gabes]
If you are under mild to moderate stress caused by a physical or psychological disease, physical injury, athletic exertion, or emotional upheaval, your requirements for magnesium escalate
Magnesium in Diet
[majority of the items that have high magnesium content are not overly MC friendly I will type this up later and include for those that are interested]
Magnesium Salt Substitutes
Most doctors tell patients with high blood pressure to avoid salt, but they mean sodium chloride. Salt from the sea and salt high in magnesium are not only safe but can be therapeutic for someone with heart disease. They do contain sodium, however, so be sure to read labels
Salt from evaporated seawater is relatively high in magnesium - 20mg of Magnesium in a teaspoon.
Smart salt (product of the USA produced by evaporation from Utah's Great Salt Lake)
Per 3 teaspoons:
626mg magnesium, 865mg potassium and only 1596mg of sodium (similar amount of table salt contains 5000mg of sodium)
Cardia Salt offers a healthy combo of salt, potassium and magnesium, Every teaspoon you net about 40mg of magnesium.
Mineral Water and Magnesium
[gabe note: aim is to have good magnesium without too much calcium and/or sodium]
EDIT this set up did not work I will retype and insert an image that shows this info clearer
Water Name Country Magnesium Calcium Sodium
{mg/L} {mg/L} {mg/L}
Adobe Springs USA 96 3.3 5
Santa Ynez USA 87 19 __
San Pellegrino Italy 57 203 46
Penafiel Mexico 41 131 159
Vittel France 38 181 3.7
Evian France 24 78 5
[there are a few more but the mg/L is quite low]
Oral Supplements
bones are storage site for magnesium, therefore bone meal is labeled a rich source of magnesium. But, the calcium contentof bone meal is about ten times higher making it unsuitable because all the calcium will negate the effects of magnesium.
Chelated magnesium, bound to organic amino acids is better absorbed than magnesium oxide - but it is more expensive
to treat serious cases of magnesium deficiency, practitioners rely on chelated magnesium, such as glycinate, taurate and orotate.
Magnesium Citrate is the most widely used magnesium supplement because it is inexpensive - and only has a mild laxative effect.
(12,000mg of magnesium citrate is the amount given for a bowel purge!!)
If you develop loose stools while taking magnesium, it does not necessarily mean you are absorbing enough and losing the rest; i may mean you are taking too much at the one time. Never take your daily magnesium all at once. Spread it out through the day, four times a day is best. If spreading the dose does not stop the loose stools, cut back the amount you are taking orally and supplement via magnesium Oil.
Magnesium Oil
Its not actually an oil at all, but a supersaturated solution of magnesium chloride in water. it can be sprayed or rubbed on the body, and is readily absorbed through the skin. It helps to increase the amount of magnesium in body tissues.
Norman Shealy, MD PHD , neurosurgeon and world renowned pain management expert...says if magnesium goes through the intestines in less than twelve (12) hours, absorption of the mineral is seriously impaired.
According to Mark Sircus, O.M.D. who writes about magnesium oil in Transdermal Magnesium Therapy (phaelos Books 2006) the amount of magnesium in one spray of a 25 or 35 percent solution of magnesium choloride is between 13 and 18mg.
Therefore if you pump about 6 sprays for each leg and arm, you are applying about 400mg of magnesium
Another 6 sprays front and 6 sprays back equals 600mg
If it tingles or burns, dilute it half with distilled water. (this halves the dose so you will need to spray twice as much to get 600mg)
After about thirty minutes most of the magnesium has already been absorbed.
When to take Magnesium
take your first dose of magnesium when you wake up and the last dose at bedtime.
if you take a third dose, make it late in the afternoon. Magnesium is most deficient in the early morning and late afternoon.
those who suffer from leg cramps, restless legs, fibromyalgia or general muscle tension take magnesium at night and find it diminishes the pain and tension and helps them sleep.
more interesting magnesium posts to come, I had one of the 4 hour SIBO tests today and I am low on energy and concentration.
Magnesium - how much??
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
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Gabes-Apg
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Magnesium - how much??
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Thanks Gabes,
That's a good post. One of the things that are a real problem are the RDAs listed for vitamins and minerals. Such listings suggest that all one has to do is to take the amount stated, and all will be good. But unfortunately that's not the way it works. Those recommendations are derived to suit the needs of "most" so-called "average" people, under "normal" conditions. How many "average" people do we know? Are we average? I certainly don't consider myself to be average. The fact that we require minor to extreme diet changes in order to enjoy any semblance of "normal" health disqualifies us from being classified in a normal category. From Wikipedia, consider these definitions of various guideline recommendations used in the nutrition nomenclature game:
IMO, it's all somewhat arbitrary, because absorption rates of all nutrients, vitamins, minerals, etc. vary greatly, not only by the food (or supplement) in which they are found, but absorption rates also depend on other foods eaten and/or supplements taken at the same time (or before or after), and each of us has our own personal absorption rates, which vary depending on the food or supplement, and most importantly, our absorption rate varies by the current condition of our gut (the degree of permeability, motility rate, etc.). And all of these absorption rates are not just additive, but instead they are multiples. IOW, the final absorption rate is the product of all of the component absorption rates multiplied together.
This means, for example, that if a 400 mg magnesium supplement contains say 18 % elemental magnesium, and it is has a bioavailability of 80 %, then the supplement has the potential to supply 400 x 0.18 x 0.80 = 57.6 mg of elemental magnesium (if we absorb it perfectly). And of course, we won't absorb it perfectly, because no human has a 100 % ability to absorb magnesium, and with our compromised digestive system, who knows what our personal absorption rate might be? If it's 50 %, for example, then the math (0.50 x 57.6) shows that we might absorb 28.8 mg of actual magnesium from a single dose of that supplement. Note that in this example, we would absorb 7.2 % of the labeled amount (28.8/400).
So how much should we be taking? Who the heck knows? We can calculate and worry all we want, but there are too many unknowns and too many ways that the pie is going to be sliced, to be able to come up with an accurate (reliable) number. The best we can do (IMO) is to make an estimate/guess, and try it. I have given up on trying to figure it out. I take a magnesium supplement that will reliably prevent leg/foot cramps, and I don't worry about the details. The type (and the amount) that I use (400 mg magnesium citrate) may not work for anyone else, but I have experimented with up to 800 mg of magnesium glycinate (which is claimed to be highly absorbable and much safer to take than mag citrate), and it simply does not work for me. I have no idea why.
If you are interested in reading additional confusing discussions on this topic (by people hoping to live forever), check out this thread on a longevity (longecity) forum:
Bioavailability & elemental % of Magnesium Types
That's a long, detail-filled discussion, and those folks don't even have MC.
I have a hunch that the last post on the first page of that discussion is on target though — transdermal supplementation is the way to go. And this appears to be confirmed by member experiences shared on this board. 
Tex
That's a good post. One of the things that are a real problem are the RDAs listed for vitamins and minerals. Such listings suggest that all one has to do is to take the amount stated, and all will be good. But unfortunately that's not the way it works. Those recommendations are derived to suit the needs of "most" so-called "average" people, under "normal" conditions. How many "average" people do we know? Are we average? I certainly don't consider myself to be average. The fact that we require minor to extreme diet changes in order to enjoy any semblance of "normal" health disqualifies us from being classified in a normal category. From Wikipedia, consider these definitions of various guideline recommendations used in the nutrition nomenclature game:
The first 3 are all similar, yet different. Which one is the most important?Estimated Average Requirements (EAR), expected to satisfy the needs of 50% of the people in that age group based on a review of the scientific literature.
Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDA), the daily dietary intake level of a nutrient considered sufficient by the Food and Nutrition Board to meet the requirements of 97.5% of healthy individuals in each life-stage and sex group. It is calculated based on the EAR and is usually approximately 20% higher than the EAR (See Calculating the RDA).
Adequate Intake (AI), where no RDA has been established, but the amount established is somewhat less firmly believed to be adequate for everyone in the demographic group.
Tolerable upper intake levels (UL), to caution against excessive intake of nutrients (like vitamin A) that can be harmful in large amounts. This is the highest level of daily consumption that current data have shown to cause no side effects in humans when used indefinitely without medical supervision.
IMO, it's all somewhat arbitrary, because absorption rates of all nutrients, vitamins, minerals, etc. vary greatly, not only by the food (or supplement) in which they are found, but absorption rates also depend on other foods eaten and/or supplements taken at the same time (or before or after), and each of us has our own personal absorption rates, which vary depending on the food or supplement, and most importantly, our absorption rate varies by the current condition of our gut (the degree of permeability, motility rate, etc.). And all of these absorption rates are not just additive, but instead they are multiples. IOW, the final absorption rate is the product of all of the component absorption rates multiplied together.This means, for example, that if a 400 mg magnesium supplement contains say 18 % elemental magnesium, and it is has a bioavailability of 80 %, then the supplement has the potential to supply 400 x 0.18 x 0.80 = 57.6 mg of elemental magnesium (if we absorb it perfectly). And of course, we won't absorb it perfectly, because no human has a 100 % ability to absorb magnesium, and with our compromised digestive system, who knows what our personal absorption rate might be? If it's 50 %, for example, then the math (0.50 x 57.6) shows that we might absorb 28.8 mg of actual magnesium from a single dose of that supplement. Note that in this example, we would absorb 7.2 % of the labeled amount (28.8/400).
So how much should we be taking?
Who the heck knows? We can calculate and worry all we want, but there are too many unknowns and too many ways that the pie is going to be sliced, to be able to come up with an accurate (reliable) number. The best we can do (IMO) is to make an estimate/guess, and try it. I have given up on trying to figure it out. I take a magnesium supplement that will reliably prevent leg/foot cramps, and I don't worry about the details. The type (and the amount) that I use (400 mg magnesium citrate) may not work for anyone else, but I have experimented with up to 800 mg of magnesium glycinate (which is claimed to be highly absorbable and much safer to take than mag citrate), and it simply does not work for me. I have no idea why. If you are interested in reading additional confusing discussions on this topic (by people hoping to live forever), check out this thread on a longevity (longecity) forum:
Bioavailability & elemental % of Magnesium Types
That's a long, detail-filled discussion, and those folks don't even have MC.
I have a hunch that the last post on the first page of that discussion is on target though — transdermal supplementation is the way to go. And this appears to be confirmed by member experiences shared on this board. Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
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- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Tex
totally agree with you about the RDI's.
then again, based on what we have been reading lately about blood levels, vdr levels, serum levels, tissue levels, there is a huge confusing maze when it comes to minerals, nutrients, amino acids etc.
Hard to know what is actually going on.
That is the info as it is presented in the book. I highlighted the statement that the RDI is based on replacing normal depletion.
My nutritionist believes "the debate" about what form of magnesium (or forms for those with multiple issues) that should be recommended will go on forever. same again for how much should be taken to correct depletion.
Based on the various discussions here (not just about magnesium), the best option - listen to your body!
what works for you, may not work for another.. what worked 2 years ago, may not work now
the delivery medium, (derma and/or oral), how much, how often, is up to the individual
With the information that has been posted hopefully people can make an informed decision that suits their budget and lifestyle
Linda -
quick google search came up with this result http://www.atthemeadow.com/shop/resourc ... layan-salt
the magnesium per kg is not that high. I think the benefit of the himalayan salt is all the other minerals it has, and the sodium is not as high as processed table salt.
in the search this link has the info based on the book mentioned by Dr Dean
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/real-s ... layan-salt
totally agree with you about the RDI's.
then again, based on what we have been reading lately about blood levels, vdr levels, serum levels, tissue levels, there is a huge confusing maze when it comes to minerals, nutrients, amino acids etc.
Hard to know what is actually going on.
That is the info as it is presented in the book. I highlighted the statement that the RDI is based on replacing normal depletion.
My nutritionist believes "the debate" about what form of magnesium (or forms for those with multiple issues) that should be recommended will go on forever. same again for how much should be taken to correct depletion.
Based on the various discussions here (not just about magnesium), the best option - listen to your body!
what works for you, may not work for another.. what worked 2 years ago, may not work now
the delivery medium, (derma and/or oral), how much, how often, is up to the individual
With the information that has been posted hopefully people can make an informed decision that suits their budget and lifestyle
Linda -
quick google search came up with this result http://www.atthemeadow.com/shop/resourc ... layan-salt
the magnesium per kg is not that high. I think the benefit of the himalayan salt is all the other minerals it has, and the sodium is not as high as processed table salt.
in the search this link has the info based on the book mentioned by Dr Dean
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/real-s ... layan-salt
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
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- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
in regards to the "how much magnesium am I getting from Epsom Salt Bath", I could not find a defined figure.
a google search revealed discussions where some make the statement that you can not absorb magnesium via the skin.
this link provided some details of a study that the serum levels of magnesium in the blood did increase from having epsom salt baths.
http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/article ... ulfate.pdf
Like an iceberg, 2/3 of the important info about us as the individual, our cells, bones, tissue and what they contain is hidden, and is not easy to test and monitor. Deficiencies or excess of other minerals/nutrients will be very different for each person depending on how long they have had chronic symptoms, what meds they are taking, and how well the gut is absorbing nutrients etc etc etc
long story short - Listen to your body.
Be patient and give it time, it may take 8 weeks or more to notice a difference to know if what you doing/taking is working for you.
If you have taken/are taking specified meds (the ones listed in previous post), been taking H1 and H2 blockers for a while for histamine/mast cell issues, have adrenal fatigue, have had chronic symptoms (not just MC, ongoing pain or skin issues) for a long time, it may well take 4-6 months to correct the deficiency.
If it makes the digestion symptoms worse, then that is an indicator that it is not the right type/dosage for you.
(regardless if you are D dominate or C dominate MC'er)
If you are not comfortable with working through all the information presented, see if there is an affordable nutritionist (ideally someone who works with patients with auto-immune / IBD / autism ADHD kids) in the area. They can assist with a treatment plan of what types of magnesium will work for you. My nutritionist is treating quite a few autism children, she knew the brands and products that had no gluten, dairy, chemical sugars, etc. We just had to verify that they were soy free.
a google search revealed discussions where some make the statement that you can not absorb magnesium via the skin.
this link provided some details of a study that the serum levels of magnesium in the blood did increase from having epsom salt baths.
http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/article ... ulfate.pdf
Like an iceberg, 2/3 of the important info about us as the individual, our cells, bones, tissue and what they contain is hidden, and is not easy to test and monitor. Deficiencies or excess of other minerals/nutrients will be very different for each person depending on how long they have had chronic symptoms, what meds they are taking, and how well the gut is absorbing nutrients etc etc etc
long story short - Listen to your body.
Be patient and give it time, it may take 8 weeks or more to notice a difference to know if what you doing/taking is working for you.
If you have taken/are taking specified meds (the ones listed in previous post), been taking H1 and H2 blockers for a while for histamine/mast cell issues, have adrenal fatigue, have had chronic symptoms (not just MC, ongoing pain or skin issues) for a long time, it may well take 4-6 months to correct the deficiency.
If it makes the digestion symptoms worse, then that is an indicator that it is not the right type/dosage for you.
(regardless if you are D dominate or C dominate MC'er)
If you are not comfortable with working through all the information presented, see if there is an affordable nutritionist (ideally someone who works with patients with auto-immune / IBD / autism ADHD kids) in the area. They can assist with a treatment plan of what types of magnesium will work for you. My nutritionist is treating quite a few autism children, she knew the brands and products that had no gluten, dairy, chemical sugars, etc. We just had to verify that they were soy free.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Thank you Gabes and Tex. I saw Natural Vitality Calm at the Vitamin Shoppe tonight. It's citrate and carbonate 325 mg per dose. It's a powder to be mixed in water. I did not pick it up. I got the lotion and will try that for a month and see what happens. Do you think magnesium in the form of citrate and carbonate would cause D? I suppose it's probably something I would have to try because of course like you all said, everyone is different. I was told it's better to take before bedtime.
Nancy
Nancy
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
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- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
in Dr Deans book, she says that dermal application and a product she sells on her website are the best for avoiding laxative effect
info is here - http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 19&start=0
Some forms are less likely to cause D, and that is for a non MC'er, keep in mind our gut villi are sensitive little souls!
my thoughts after reading the book,
D dominate MC'ers should start with good dosage (ie 400-600mg per day) via dermal and see how they go.
if the MC is not 'active' inflammation levels are ok, then maybe try oral formations, starting off at 1/8th-1/6th dose and work up gradually.
what type of mag is up to the individual, what type of magnesium deficiency symptoms are occuring and on the other ingredients in the tablet/powder (and what you can afford)
For those with Histamine issues, you will need at least 800mg of magnesium to reduce inflammation for it to be an adequate way to minimise histamine inflammation
C dominate - go for it! (keep it under 1500mg of magnesium orally per day)
info is here - http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 19&start=0
Some forms are less likely to cause D, and that is for a non MC'er, keep in mind our gut villi are sensitive little souls!
my thoughts after reading the book,
D dominate MC'ers should start with good dosage (ie 400-600mg per day) via dermal and see how they go.
if the MC is not 'active' inflammation levels are ok, then maybe try oral formations, starting off at 1/8th-1/6th dose and work up gradually.
what type of mag is up to the individual, what type of magnesium deficiency symptoms are occuring and on the other ingredients in the tablet/powder (and what you can afford)
For those with Histamine issues, you will need at least 800mg of magnesium to reduce inflammation for it to be an adequate way to minimise histamine inflammation
C dominate - go for it! (keep it under 1500mg of magnesium orally per day)
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
It might. You would certainly need to experiment to make sure. I have a hunch that the reason why I can get away with the magnesium citrate is because of my earlier history of C. Even when my MC was active, I had alternating D and C.Do you think magnesium in the form of citrate and carbonate would cause D?
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
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- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Nancy
on Dr Deans website she states the following for Natural Calm "tea"
on Dr Deans website she states the following for Natural Calm "tea"
Citrate is probably not a good option.in powdered magnesium citrate, one of the most common oral forms of magnesium. It’s made by Peter Gillham’s Natural Vitality. Anyone who does not have symptoms of diarrhea can take it. If you get a slight laxative effect with it, just space out your doses. Or you can mix your magnesium powder in your drinking water and sip throughout the day.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Nancy, I had tried Natural Calm before MC. It caused loss stools for me. I gave it away. But, many people like it. I think N=1 experimentation, is necessary for mag., especially if D dominate MC. -Chris
Diagnosed April 2014, after losing 50 lbs. in 6 months.
Delzicol April 2014 (no effect, after 3.5 weeks-removed)
Endicort April 2014 - helping, but still losing.
Pepto-Bismal 9 a day - May 2014
Thankful for support!
Delzicol April 2014 (no effect, after 3.5 weeks-removed)
Endicort April 2014 - helping, but still losing.
Pepto-Bismal 9 a day - May 2014
Thankful for support!
OK, this may be placebo effect. Reading of an easier, cheaper way on the internet I dissolved a tablespoon of Epsom salt in 4 tablespoons of hot water, put it in a spray bottle. I have sprayed it on my feet when I had toe cramps and it stopped. On my hands when I was cross stitching and they hurt....it stopped. DH has arthritis in his hands and has to work at a computer all day, he tried it and it worked.
I sprayed it on my legs and arms about an hour before I was going to shower to absorb the magnesium. I seldom take baths, just seems I am always in a hurry and take a quick shower. I did soak in Epsom salts the last time I had tummy cramps and it definitely helped.
I sprayed it on my legs and arms about an hour before I was going to shower to absorb the magnesium. I seldom take baths, just seems I am always in a hurry and take a quick shower. I did soak in Epsom salts the last time I had tummy cramps and it definitely helped.
Theresa
MC and UC 2014
in remission since June 1, 2014
We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. ~Jim Rohn
MC and UC 2014
in remission since June 1, 2014
We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. ~Jim Rohn
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Gabes-Apg
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- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
I am pretty confident it is the magnesium working!
I had fantastic results histamine wise within 2 weeks of starting increased dosages.
In the past 2 weeks, 5 family members/friends have also started medium to high levels, all have noticed improvement.
i think part of the 'wow' factor is that it is not difficult or expensive, even for those that are D dominate MC'ers, the derma approach is just as effective as oral.
Hope the improvements and wellness continues for both you and your dear husband.
I had fantastic results histamine wise within 2 weeks of starting increased dosages.
In the past 2 weeks, 5 family members/friends have also started medium to high levels, all have noticed improvement.
i think part of the 'wow' factor is that it is not difficult or expensive, even for those that are D dominate MC'ers, the derma approach is just as effective as oral.
Hope the improvements and wellness continues for both you and your dear husband.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
I’ve just had a delivery of Ancient Lakes Natural Liquid Magnesium (it’s an Australian product sourced from Lake Deborah in WA). I don’t know much about magnesium but this product states that it is a natural magnesium brine which includes water, magnesium chloride, magnesium sulphate, potassium chloride, sodium chloride and other naturally occurring mineral salts. Per 1mL there is 98.5mg of magnesium, 8.7mg of potassium and 7.5mg of salt.
Does this sound like a good magnesium supplement to take?? I admit to being a little confused by the different forms of magnesium supplements available...
It says to start with 1mL and work up to a maximum of 3mL (added to water and sipped throughout the day).
Sarah
Does this sound like a good magnesium supplement to take?? I admit to being a little confused by the different forms of magnesium supplements available...
It says to start with 1mL and work up to a maximum of 3mL (added to water and sipped throughout the day).
Sarah