Budesonide as a topical?

terre · Post by **terre** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:24 pm

I have been researching IBD in my dog (she had endoscopy due to inflammation in the stomach) so she is vomiting instead of diarrhea.

Everything I've read makes it sound so much like MC. Anyway on one university website it mentioned treatment with budesonide as a topical to reduce side effects.

Anyone ever hear about this? A topical? May just be different because it is a canine.

Thanks,
Terre

Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:50 pm

Hi Terre,

Since research shows that only up to about 19 % of budesonide is absorbed by the bloodstream when oral treatment is used, if a topical treatment is used instead, I don't see how even that much would be absorbed. If one of the other corticosteroids were used, yes, that might work, but I have some doubts about budesonide used that way. But for all I know, dog skin may be extremely porous to budesonide, and it may go straight into their bloodstream.

More than a few dogs have been diagnosed with MC. As far as I am aware, the treatment is typically something such as oral budesonide. Polly could give a much better answer, if she happens to see your post.

But none of this applies to your dog anyway, because oral budesonide will do virtually nothing to control inflammation in the stomach (remember, it doesn't activate until it reaches the ileum in humans). I don't see how budesonide could be effectively used to treat gastritis, because it's going to pass right through the stomach in an inactive state, due to the low pH in the stomach.

Tex

terre · Post by **terre** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:55 pm

I'm brain dead from research....why didn't I think about it not helping in the stomach? Sorry!

The vet just said if it's in the stomach and duodenum then they have vomiting...if it's in the intestine, they have diarrhea...and most of what I've read is just what we have to do....elimination, steroids, antibiotics.

I won't get the biopsy results back until Tuesday, then we'll know the type of IBD we're dealing with....from what I've read, same protocol no matter which type....will just tell us the characteristics (from common to rare).

As far as my MC, I've not been as diligent as I should be....not as bad as it was when first diagnosed, but could be better.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond,
Terre

Sheila · Post by **Sheila** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:17 pm

I expect your vet will change your dog's diet. I wonder if fecal testing can be done on dogs or if Enterolab would even consider doing it. It would help with making basic food decisions.

Sheila W

terre · Post by **terre** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:23 pm

Thanks Sheila for your response.

This is one of the questions I have for the vet when we talk about the biopsy results.

You know, I never dreamed that a pet could have these issues....as they are supposed to eat anything and if it makes them sick they just "get over it". You live and learn....so tired of cleaning up vomit...poor girl.

Terre

Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:32 pm

Terre wrote:The vet just said if it's in the stomach and duodenum then they have vomiting...if it's in the intestine, they have diarrhea

I'm sure that's true. I wonder if a different formulation of budesonide might be available to vets — one that does not have delayed activation, so that it will be active in the stomach. I don't recall ever seeing any information on the version of budesonide used by vets.

As Sheila suggested, cutting grains, dairy, and soy out of your dog's diet might resolve the problem for her.

Terre wrote:As far as my MC, I've not been as diligent as I should be....not as bad as it was when first diagnosed, but could be better.

Please don't let it get too far out of hand, because chronic inflammation can allow additional autoimmune issues to develop, depending on your genetics.

Tex

terre · Post by **terre** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:38 pm

Tex, you're so kind for caring....in my weepy state....I might just start crying.

I've been looking for where I've put your book....it's time to read again!

Thanks,
Terre

What are some of the additional autoimmune issues?

Pat · Post by **Pat** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:25 pm

See www.DogtorJ.com Sorry your dog is having problems.

Pat

terre · Post by **terre** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:11 pm

Awwww Pat.....I look forward to reading on this site...of all I have been researching, I have not come across this site. It is very evident that y'all care as much for my beloved pet as you do for all our members.

A heartfelt thank you! I know I will get on top of this, it will just take time and I hate to see her suffer until I get my head wrapped around how to start. I had to do this with my kidney dog and ended up home cooking for her (I hate to cook), but it was necessary....in the end it was cancer that took her.

Okay, I know this is not a dog site, so I will end this conversation and just want y'all to know how much I appreciate you....bless you all.

Terre

Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:34 pm

Terre,

Not to worry. Absolutely no one is going to have a problem with you discussing your pet on this forum, especially in view of the fact that she may very well have the same condition that we are all dealing with.

FWIW, I agree with Pat. DogtorJ (John Symes) is a British vet, and he's a research pioneer and world-class expert on food sensitivities .

Terre wrote:What are some of the additional autoimmune issues?

I just meant that chronic inflammation often leads to the development of other autoimmune diseases (such as Hashimoto's thyroiditis, RA, fibromyalgia, etc.), or additional sensitivities.

Tex

terre · Post by **terre** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:10 pm

Tex, I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia in 1995....wonder which came first?

I looked back to find the site that mentioned budesonide as a topical....the article was August 2013. It's toward the end in the section titled: Cyclosporine
http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/v ... e-ibd.aspx

I found your wonderful book and know I need to get my ducks in a row....I've forgotten what "norman" looks like since I haven't seen him since I was diagnosed, but at least the bathroom trips have slowed down.

Thank you for everything you do!

Terre

nerdhume · Post by **nerdhume** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:16 am

We have 4 dogs, 3 of which are old and arthritic. We began cooking for them quite a while back. We buy some type of meat, usually chicken thighs or legs, but sometimes pork or beef if it is on sale. We cook this down with broth in the crockpot until falling off the bone then debone it. Then we add brown rice, but I would suggest white for digestive problems. I also throw in any leftovers from the fridge. It really is easy to do, we even use crockpot bags so there is no cleanup.
We have a gravity feeder for dry food any time they want it, but we feed this morning and night. It works out about the same price as canned food, maybe a little cheaper depending on the price of the meat.

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:03 am

We rescued a kitten this past winter when the temps were -30 below zero. She was sick when we brought her home and went through about a month of terrible D. I switched her to Blue Buffalo and she is doing much better. It does get tiring cleaning up the messes and seeing them in distress. I've now taken to studying the toilet and the litter box for their contents.

terre · Post by **terre** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:11 am

Theresa, thanks for sharing what you cook/feed your furbabies.

Deb, you made me laugh....I, too study stools (mine and theirs)! Thanks for the laugh!!

Terre

terre · Post by **terre** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:12 am

Deb, I'm glad your kitten is much better.

Our pets are like our children and don't we wish they could talk (sometimes).

Terre