Budesonide as a topical?

nerdhume · Post by **nerdhume** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:16 am

One of my dogs tries to talk, I am sure if I knew what she was saying I would be washing her mouth with soap

terre · Post by **terre** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:34 am

So true....be careful what we wish for!

Post by **tex** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:43 am

Terre,

I think I see the problem. The author of that article allowed a little doctorspeak to sneak through the editing process. Most of us interpret the term "topical" to mean "applied directly to the skin", because that is the way that we typically see such treatments described.

Actually though, "topical" means "relating or applied directly to a part of the body" — that means any part of the body. I'm pretty sure that when the doctor being paraphrased in that article wrote the original article about using corticosteroids to treat canine IBDs, he meant that the budesonide should be applied topically to the stomach (IOW, directly to the interior lining of the stomach).

And used that way, budesonide will indeed be effective, and it should minimize the side effect risks carried by most corticosteroids. I think this resolves the mystery.

Tex

terre · Post by **terre** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:43 am

Tex,

I just got off the phone with the vet and asked about stool sample testing for food allergies in dogs.

She said that dermatologists have come a long way in blood serum testing for food or environmental allergies - she was not aware of specific stool testing on animals for allergies. She is to get me more information on the blood serum testing (prices, etc.)

I also told her that I had seen where Texas A&M had information on their site that they are currently enrolling dogs with chronic gastrointestinal inflammation into a research for investigation of novel inflammatory markers to help diagnose infiltrative histological changes. She said she would check to see if this is currently being done (I couldn't find a date on the trial info). Do you think this would be a good idea if I could get my dog enrolled?

Thank you,
Terre

terre · Post by **terre** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:46 am

Tex, how in the world would they apply it directly to the interior lining of the stomach? Wouldn't it just pass through to the intestines?

Terre

Post by **tex** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:50 am

Terre wrote:Do you think this would be a good idea if I could get my dog enrolled?

I dunno. What does your dog think about that?

You and her would be the ones filling out the forms and having to go through the additional tests.

Tex

terre · Post by **terre** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:00 am

Love your sense of humor! I guess I'd better ask her!!!

Thanks,
Terre

Post by **tex** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:05 am

terre wrote:Tex, how in the world would they apply it directly to the interior lining of the stomach? Wouldn't it just pass through to the intestines?

Terre

Yes, the formulation that we are familiar with could not be used (without modification). The granules of budesonide used in Entocort capsules are individually enteric-coated, and they will not dissolve and become activated until they are exposed to a solution with a pH that exceeds 5.5 (which is the case further down in the small intestine).

However, the vet staff could pre-activate the budesonide very easily, for example, by simply dissolving the granules in water (the pH of which would certainly be well above 5.5), and then giving the solution to her orally.

I'm pretty sure that budesonide is available without the enteric coating, though, so they wouldn't even have to go to the trouble of dissolving it in water. Budesonide was used in inhalers for years, for example, before the enteric coating was added for gastrointestinal use. Without the enteric coating, it is available for absorption as soon as it contacts a mucosal surface.

You're more than welcome, of course,
Tex

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:35 am

Hi Terre,

I researched this issue some years ago when my golden retriever developed a serious autoimmune problem at age 7. From what I read, there is a direct relationship between AI disease in dogs and excessive vaccines as well as diet. In recent years, vets have cut down on the number if vaccines they recommend.

I put my dog on a completely no-grain diet. Just meat with a few veggies/fruits added in. You can find no-grain dog food that is frozen, canned, or in kibble form. It is generally more expensive than the ones with grains, but well worth it. You can also make it yourself if you wish. It makes so much sense to cut out all grains (even rice) when you consider that the wolf, the ancestor of all dogs today, has essentially no grain at all in its diet. The only exception is when the wolf eats an animal that has eaten grains, but the stomach of that animal has at least partially digested the grains before the wolf eats it.

My dog lived 7 more years. Although he needed daily medication (calciferol), I think diet was the key factor in maintaining his robust health and longevity. I feed my current dog the same way.

BTW, I researched cat food last year when my cat developed a serious cystitis (bladder infection). Did you know that cats should eat only wet food? Dry food (kibbles) leads to urinary problems as well as diabetes (most have a high carb content). The latest thinking by the cat internists is that dry food dehydrates cats, because, by nature, cats get the majority of their water from their whole food (prey). Studies have shown that they simply will not drink enough water to be well-hydrated if they are on a kibbles diet. Wet food has up to 80% water, while dry has very little.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Polly

terre · Post by **terre** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:06 pm

Polly,

I quit giving my girl vaccines when she was 6 yrs. old (she's now 10). We had another dog that developed kidney disease....then cancer and passed away....that's when I stopped vaccines. (I take that back, the vet talked me into Bordetella in February of this year.) I used to cook a kidney diet for my kidney dog and if I end up having to cook for IBD, then I will research and do the best I can.

Also, I've been feeding Nature's Variety Instinct Raw (Grain Free) frozen food for years. I may need to research additives that may be causing her distress. Also, she will only eat chicken and I am wondering if she has developed an issue with that.

This is very perplexing for me and I feel so sorry for her.

Thank you for the info about cats, we do not currently belong to one. (Ha!) We have thought about it, but with two dogs (yes, I have another little 4 yr. old girl....who did get all of her puppy vaccines), we think that is enough at this time.

Thank you so much for responding.

Terre

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:10 am

Thanks Terre, it's amazing how quickly the little fur balls become part of the family. I have three cats now and I've become a master at identifying who's who in the litter boxes. I'm not sure how we would get through all of this without a sense of humor.

Best wishes to you and your critters.

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:43 pm

Terre, it's amazing how quickly they can become one of the family. I had a good friend ready to take her since I didn't want three cats but when it came down to it, I couldn't let her go. I knew she would have a wonderful home with three great kids but I just couldn't. I'm still not thrilled to have the expense and responsibility of three but that's the way it goes.

Best wishes for both you and your critters. I don't know how any of us would get along without a sense of humor.