I didn't know dysautomonia was common in IBDs

[Zizzle]

It seems my crazy low BP and heart rate were probably some of my earliest signs of systemic inflammation. I am much better now, after an initial worsening when I started LDN.

From Dysautonomia International:
http://www.dysautonomiainternational.or ... php?ID=150

Crohn's Disease and Ulcerative Colitis
Crohn's disease is a chronic inflammatory condition of the gastrointestinal tract. Ulcerative colitis is a disease of the large intestine, in which the lining of the large intestine becomes inflamed and develops ulcers that can produce pus and mucous. The combined inflammation and ulceration can cause abdominal discomfort and frequent emptying of the colon. Both Crohn's and Colitis are forms of Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD), and both conditions can be associated with autonomic neuropathy and symptoms of autonomic dysfunction. Some studies have documented that about 50% of Crohn's and Colitis patient have autonomic nervous system complications.

Disturbed autonomic nerve function in patients with Crohn's disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2034989

Autonomic vagal nerve dysfunction in patients with ulcerative colitis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8362220


Autonomic cardiovascular regulation in quiescent ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18036030

[Gabes-Apg]

Constant Chronic Inflammation can kill you....

A few months back I think Marliss put up a post with an article that linked Heart Disease in general with IBD's.

[MBombardier]

Yep. But don't ask me to find it. I have search dyslexia, lol.

I don't know what my brother's bowel habits were before he died of congestive heart failure three weeks ago, but when I was staying at his house after he died his wife mentioned that he had had uncontrollable diarrhea a few times. Medicine-related or IBD-related, we don't know.

I went to urgent care yesterday because I haven't been able to hear much in my left ear since I got off the plane 12 days ago, and the doctor diagnosed me with a heart murmur. Sigh... he said that it could be related to stress, but I have a new patient appointment with a new PCP (since my old one moved away) the end of August and I am supposed to follow up on this diagnosis to see what's up. I really don't need this on top of everything else.

The good news is that my average heart rate which I take with my BP two or three times a day, has gone up from between 55-60 to consistently over 60, so the specter of bradycardia is fading.

[tex]

Hi Zizzle,

Note that those studies appeared to include subjects who had been dealing with severe IBD symptoms for a long time. For example, one study mentioned that a fourth of the UC patients had been through a colectomy as part of their treatment program (if removing the entire colon can be considered to be a "treatment"). The inference from that is that most of these patients almost surely experienced heavy corticosteroid treatment at one time or another. Corticosteroid use was not even mentioned in the abstracts (or if it was, I scanned them too quickly, and overlooked that information). But corticosteroids are known to be highly toxic to the CNS, and by association it's probably safe to assume that they are also toxic to the enteric nervous system as well. I didn't have time to search for a specific reference, but I note that the article on Lupus at the link below includes this notation:

several drugs such as corticosteroids have significant CNS toxicity

http://www.lupusinternational.com/About ... -CNS-.aspx

and here's a discussion from a discussion board that you should find to be interesting:

https://www.inspire.com/groups/agmd-gi- ... -diabetes/

You may recall that Sally Read (the original founder of both microsccopiccolitis.org and the discussion board where many of us here started), died of a massive heart attack in December of 2009. She had been a heavy user of prednisone for a long time (when budesonide was not available), and she had Draconian side effects every time she tried to withdraw from it. Ironically (since she seemed to be unable/unwilling to commit to the diet changes needed to control the disease), her symptoms were active when she died. If I'm not mistaken, Polly shares my suspicions that Sally's heart attack can be traced to the heavy corticosteroid use years earlier.

IOW, IMO, as usual, the researchers are underrating the adverse health effects of certain medications (used to treat IBDs), and blaming certain CNS or ENS damage on the disease itself, when the smoking gun appears to actually be the medications involved in the patient history.

But of course, this is just my opinion, and it's unlikely that it will ever be confirmed by medical research (for various reasons, many of them liability-based, obviously).

Tex

[Zizzle]

I had a heart murmur at birth, was diagnosed with mitral valve prolapse in my teens, was told I no longer had mitral valve prolapse when I was 30, and had an echocardiogram this year at age 40...now I have mild tricuspid regurgitation! But apparently that's considered a normal echo...and no mention of a murmur.

[gluten]

Hi Zizzle, Interesting. My PCP dx MVP in my thirties. I have an exam every 6 months to monitor the scripts of thaizide. He would not hear it at every exam. So he decided to send me for an echo. The first one was negative and then I had a second with the same results. Back then, the only reason for a MVP was bacteria settiling in the valve. Today they have found other reasons for a MVP. One is a magnesium deficiency. Thaizide drugs remove not only water but trace elements such as potassium, sodium, magnesium and zinc. I was taking the drug for fifteen years. Jon

[Zizzle]

Tex,

IMO, as usual, the researchers are underrating the adverse health effects of certain medications (used to treat IBDs), and blaming certain CNS or ENS damage on the disease itself, when the smoking gun appears to actually be the medications involved in the patient history.

That may be true in the majority of cases, but in my case, I had dysautonomia at least since adolescence, well before I took any prescription drugs. For me it may be related to joint hypermobility and the dysautonomia that almost always accompanies it, but perhaps it's a genetic predisposition that is present in dysautonomia and IBDs?

[tex]

That may be true in the majority of cases, but in my case, I had dysautonomia at least since adolescence, well before I took any prescription drugs.

Exactly. That was before you even had an IBD. That's why the research you cited doesn't apply to you (and probably not to anyone else, for that matter). The researchers appear to be barking up the wrong tree.

As you say, for all we (or those researchers) know, An IBD may be a possible symptom of the syndrome caused by dysautonomia, rather than the other way around.

Tex