A Self-Inflicted Histamine Event
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
A Self-Inflicted Histamine Event
Hi All,
Is anyone else here a Sriracha chili sauce fan? IMO, it's the most awesome chili sauce ever created, and nothing else even comes close. This is the stuff made by Huy Fong Foods out in Irwindale, California.
You probably recall seeing them on the natlonal news a few months back, when the Irwindale city council threatened to shut them down for apparently offending the olfactory senses, and singeing the nostrils of some of the city residents, to say nothing of polluting the already less-than-pristine California air with the pungent odor of fermenting chilis wafting upward from their fermentation tanks. Apparently the sauce is fermented for many months before being bottled for sale. This leads me to believe that it might possibly be a leading candidate in the food-with-the-ultimate-histamine-level competition. But I digress. No wait . . . this is actually vital to my story.
So anyway, eventually, after Huy Fong threatened to pack up his chili vats, and move them to a more appreciative community in another state, it dawned on the city council that Siraracha is a national icon of sorts (to say nothing of the fact that they obviously supply the city and state with a heck of a lot of tax revenue), so the city council relented and decided that it might be better to recognize that the chili fumes do indeed smell a lot like tax money, so maybe the odor wasn't so offensive after all. It took them a while to come to that realization, because apparently their brains must have also been scrambled from all the toxic chili fumes permeating the valley.
Sorry for the long prologue, but IMO, the Sriracha is a vital part of my experience yesterday. As many members here are well aware, I tend to try to check things out thoroughly before I decide that a food is causing problems for me. When I was having histamine issues (and antihistamine rebound problems) a month or so ago, I suspected that Sriracha was part of the problem, so yesterday I checked it out to attempt remove any doubt.
For lunch I usually eat jalapeno pork sausage and either Fritos or tortilla chips — a combination about as close to manna from heaven as one can get, as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that can make it better is to douse the sausage with Sriracha sauce. But I had been avoiding it since my previous histamine event. So the day before yesterday I used the Sriracha sauce on the sausage. So far so good — nothing happened the first day and night.
Yesterday about mid-morning I ate 2 bananas that were a little riper than I usually allow (I usually eat them when they are barely ripe). In fact, I put them through a Yonana appliance, together with a few slices of a fresh peach that I had allowed to ripen for a few days, all frozen, of course. So this should have at least caught my mast cells' attention.
Then for lunch I had jalapeno pork sausage of course, again doused liberally with Sriracha chili sauce. Then about mid-afternoon I spent roughly a half-hour or so in hundred-degree heat trimming some tree limbs, to add the thermal exercise effect to my mast cells, and by late-afternoon I was all set, and already showing some results. So I definitely had their attention, at that point.
A few itchy bumps began to show up on my lower legs and ankles, plus a couple on my belt line. By bedtime my lower legs were covered with a pretty good scattering of bumps and they were itching like mad, so after taking a shower, I slathered them with a 5 % benzocaine cream, and took an Allegra. I woke up a couple of hours later, scratching and itching at approximately a level of close to 12, on a scale of 1–10. I finally managed to get back to sleep an hour or so later, and by morning, the itchy rash appeared to be pretty much faded away.
The 24-hour Allegra began to wear off before noon (so it only lasted for roughly 12 hours or less), but the symptoms seem to be minor, so I'm still trying to ignore them. Of course I skipped the bananas and Sriracha today and I'll decide in an hour or so whether or not to take an Allegra at bedtime.
I believe that I've convincingly demonstrated to myself that Sriracha is a potent source of histamine, and while it may be OK to use on an occasional basis, I probably can't get away with using it every day, unfortunately.
Tex
Is anyone else here a Sriracha chili sauce fan? IMO, it's the most awesome chili sauce ever created, and nothing else even comes close. This is the stuff made by Huy Fong Foods out in Irwindale, California.
You probably recall seeing them on the natlonal news a few months back, when the Irwindale city council threatened to shut them down for apparently offending the olfactory senses, and singeing the nostrils of some of the city residents, to say nothing of polluting the already less-than-pristine California air with the pungent odor of fermenting chilis wafting upward from their fermentation tanks. Apparently the sauce is fermented for many months before being bottled for sale. This leads me to believe that it might possibly be a leading candidate in the food-with-the-ultimate-histamine-level competition. But I digress. No wait . . . this is actually vital to my story.
So anyway, eventually, after Huy Fong threatened to pack up his chili vats, and move them to a more appreciative community in another state, it dawned on the city council that Siraracha is a national icon of sorts (to say nothing of the fact that they obviously supply the city and state with a heck of a lot of tax revenue), so the city council relented and decided that it might be better to recognize that the chili fumes do indeed smell a lot like tax money, so maybe the odor wasn't so offensive after all. It took them a while to come to that realization, because apparently their brains must have also been scrambled from all the toxic chili fumes permeating the valley.
Sorry for the long prologue, but IMO, the Sriracha is a vital part of my experience yesterday. As many members here are well aware, I tend to try to check things out thoroughly before I decide that a food is causing problems for me. When I was having histamine issues (and antihistamine rebound problems) a month or so ago, I suspected that Sriracha was part of the problem, so yesterday I checked it out to attempt remove any doubt.
For lunch I usually eat jalapeno pork sausage and either Fritos or tortilla chips — a combination about as close to manna from heaven as one can get, as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that can make it better is to douse the sausage with Sriracha sauce. But I had been avoiding it since my previous histamine event. So the day before yesterday I used the Sriracha sauce on the sausage. So far so good — nothing happened the first day and night.
Yesterday about mid-morning I ate 2 bananas that were a little riper than I usually allow (I usually eat them when they are barely ripe). In fact, I put them through a Yonana appliance, together with a few slices of a fresh peach that I had allowed to ripen for a few days, all frozen, of course. So this should have at least caught my mast cells' attention.
Then for lunch I had jalapeno pork sausage of course, again doused liberally with Sriracha chili sauce. Then about mid-afternoon I spent roughly a half-hour or so in hundred-degree heat trimming some tree limbs, to add the thermal exercise effect to my mast cells, and by late-afternoon I was all set, and already showing some results. So I definitely had their attention, at that point.
A few itchy bumps began to show up on my lower legs and ankles, plus a couple on my belt line. By bedtime my lower legs were covered with a pretty good scattering of bumps and they were itching like mad, so after taking a shower, I slathered them with a 5 % benzocaine cream, and took an Allegra. I woke up a couple of hours later, scratching and itching at approximately a level of close to 12, on a scale of 1–10. I finally managed to get back to sleep an hour or so later, and by morning, the itchy rash appeared to be pretty much faded away.
The 24-hour Allegra began to wear off before noon (so it only lasted for roughly 12 hours or less), but the symptoms seem to be minor, so I'm still trying to ignore them. Of course I skipped the bananas and Sriracha today and I'll decide in an hour or so whether or not to take an Allegra at bedtime.
I believe that I've convincingly demonstrated to myself that Sriracha is a potent source of histamine, and while it may be OK to use on an occasional basis, I probably can't get away with using it every day, unfortunately.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
At least you can have it occasionally. I remember being excited to discover I could have fritos & bean dip!
I am off all prescription meds now and that is great.
I still have to take Zyrtec each morning, Zantec with dinner and Benadryl at bedtime. This being the start of ragweed season here (and it will continue until about January) I always have to take allergy meds. I would like to be able to get off the Zantec, but every time I try I have nighttime heartburn so bad I can't sleep. I suspect it may be tied to my glass of red wine, but some things are just a deal breaker
At least you can have it occasionally. I remember being excited to discover I could have fritos & bean dip!
I am off all prescription meds now and that is great.
I still have to take Zyrtec each morning, Zantec with dinner and Benadryl at bedtime. This being the start of ragweed season here (and it will continue until about January) I always have to take allergy meds. I would like to be able to get off the Zantec, but every time I try I have nighttime heartburn so bad I can't sleep. I suspect it may be tied to my glass of red wine, but some things are just a deal breaker
Theresa
MC and UC 2014
in remission since June 1, 2014
We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. ~Jim Rohn
MC and UC 2014
in remission since June 1, 2014
We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. ~Jim Rohn
Tex, I would've messed up that experiment with the bananas and peaches. The bananas cause oral allergy syndrome for me (my mouth goes to sleep) and the peaches would've caused excessive gas. I just learned this the other day when I made what I thought was safe (for me) sorbet with just frozen peaches and sugar. Cramps galore! I re-read my low FODMAPs diet sheet and there they were--peaches are high-fructose. That sorbet was good, too!
Pat C.
"Don't sweat the small stuff.
P.S. (It's all small stuff!)"
"Don't sweat the small stuff.
P.S. (It's all small stuff!)"
Pat,
That's a heck of a note. Maybe someday, after another year or 2 of healing you might be able to tolerate peaches again, but that reaction to the bananas is not likely to go away, I'm afraid.
I agree that moderation would probably allow me to use the chili sauce occasionally (as long as I don't overdo it), since the effect is surely dose-dependent. And I probably could have done the challenge with the Sriracha sauce alone, and I still might have received a convincing result, but since I try to eat a banana or 2 each day anyway (for the potassium), which is surely going to boost my histamine level, and since I'm unlikely to be able to avoid working during the hottest part of the day at least some of the time anyway (which is also going to agitate my mast cells), I figured they would help to make the test results more definitive, so that I wouldn't have any doubts, afterward. And I don't have any doubts — that was a humdinger of a mast cell reaction.
The good news is that I didn't have any symptoms last night or this morning, even though I didn't take an antihistamine last night. Such a rapid attenuation of the symptoms leads me to believe that my diamine oxidase enzyme (DAO) production is fine, because my system obviously was able to purge enough of the histamine to get the level back down into a more normal range relatively quickly.
That's one of the reasons why I asked if anyone else uses this chili sauce, because it appears to me that almost anyone who normally eats a few high-histamine foods each day might trigger a histamine reaction virtually any time they use a relatively large amount of the Sriracha sauce simply because it's bound to contain such an enormous amount of histamine. But maybe I'm wrong.
Tex
That's a heck of a note. Maybe someday, after another year or 2 of healing you might be able to tolerate peaches again, but that reaction to the bananas is not likely to go away, I'm afraid.
I agree that moderation would probably allow me to use the chili sauce occasionally (as long as I don't overdo it), since the effect is surely dose-dependent. And I probably could have done the challenge with the Sriracha sauce alone, and I still might have received a convincing result, but since I try to eat a banana or 2 each day anyway (for the potassium), which is surely going to boost my histamine level, and since I'm unlikely to be able to avoid working during the hottest part of the day at least some of the time anyway (which is also going to agitate my mast cells), I figured they would help to make the test results more definitive, so that I wouldn't have any doubts, afterward. And I don't have any doubts — that was a humdinger of a mast cell reaction.
The good news is that I didn't have any symptoms last night or this morning, even though I didn't take an antihistamine last night. Such a rapid attenuation of the symptoms leads me to believe that my diamine oxidase enzyme (DAO) production is fine, because my system obviously was able to purge enough of the histamine to get the level back down into a more normal range relatively quickly.
That's one of the reasons why I asked if anyone else uses this chili sauce, because it appears to me that almost anyone who normally eats a few high-histamine foods each day might trigger a histamine reaction virtually any time they use a relatively large amount of the Sriracha sauce simply because it's bound to contain such an enormous amount of histamine. But maybe I'm wrong.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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OK, I'm just trying to deal with a streak of jealousy here, that you are even able to eat spicy foods like chilis and peppers! I see so many recipes now that sound fabulous, and one of the key ingredients is that Sriracha sauce. Rats. If I even go near a pepper of any kind, my gut torments me until I wave a white flag and repent…. A hard pill to swallow for a former Texas girl now living in the southeast….
But thanks for being the sacrificial lamb, and testing out your histamine theory for us, Tex. That just reinforces my resolve never to go near the stuff. I didn't realize it was actually fermented -- no wonder it triggered such a reaction…
But thanks for being the sacrificial lamb, and testing out your histamine theory for us, Tex. That just reinforces my resolve never to go near the stuff. I didn't realize it was actually fermented -- no wonder it triggered such a reaction…
Cindy
2008 Celiac disease
2012 Collagenous Colitis
Family history includes ALS, ulcerative colitis, Lyme disease, mild epilepsy
2008 Celiac disease
2012 Collagenous Colitis
Family history includes ALS, ulcerative colitis, Lyme disease, mild epilepsy
Exactly! I think I'm going to stay away from that particular boundary, though.Gabes wrote:Always good to know the 'boundaries'
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Thanks of the experiment Tex! Glad to hear that you bounced back fairly well.
I'm happy that I can now eat spicy peppers again. Mexican food is one of my "go to" cuisines….without cheese of course. I also love Thai curry ( made with coconut milk)….which is also spicy.
For all of you who aren't there yet….. there may come a day :)
Leah
I'm happy that I can now eat spicy peppers again. Mexican food is one of my "go to" cuisines….without cheese of course. I also love Thai curry ( made with coconut milk)….which is also spicy.
For all of you who aren't there yet….. there may come a day :)
Leah
Hi Tex!
I haven't posted in quite awhile, but I stop by from time to time to read up on where people are with their MC (mast cell) issues as it relates to their overall health. (Gosh, remember when I first joined PP and we could count the number of people on the board with MC issues on one hand?! So little was known then about MC implications...how far we have come in just a few years!)
Your experiment with Sriracha chili sauce (you're a brave man!) prompted me to post today. Back in the early days when I didn't know what was going on (quick history for others...I started w/ diagnosis of mastocytic enterocolitis and eventually ended up with a diagnosis of mast cell activation disease.) I had frequent bouts of "burning mouth syndrome." (Didn't know what it was called at the time, but Dr. Afrin labeled it for me.) If you're interested in reading about it - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21420635
After months of "oral torture" I figured out it was pepper (all kinds) that was causing the problem. Interestingly, years earlier when I was dealing with a severe bout of bone pain, my rheumatologist prescribed a capsaicin (an active component of chili peppers) cream for pain relief. I used the cream and ended up in the ER with what looked like chemical burns on my legs. Fast forward to the pepper causing oral burns and a systemic mast cell disorder and all the pieces fit.
I wanted to pass along that capsaicin (likely a main ingredient in your sauce) is a known mast cell trigger. IMO, it should be on the "no-no" list for anyone dealing with a systemic mast cell disorder. For those dealing with peripheral MC issues, I would suggest using it very cautiously. Here's a link to an article about MCs and capsaicin:
http://koreamed.org/SearchBasic.php?RID ... %5BISSU%5D
(It's an older article, but it stands the test of time.)
I'm pretty much unable to have anything seasoned (translate...tastes good!) but such is life. A bland diet surely beats trips to the ER with a myriad of MC related symptoms. A trade off I'll take!
I have been meaning to post with some updated info on MCs...I'll try to do that soon. Perhaps some of the information will be helpful to others.
So, as the saying goes Tex, "stay off the sauce!"
Best to all,
Julie
I haven't posted in quite awhile, but I stop by from time to time to read up on where people are with their MC (mast cell) issues as it relates to their overall health. (Gosh, remember when I first joined PP and we could count the number of people on the board with MC issues on one hand?! So little was known then about MC implications...how far we have come in just a few years!)
Your experiment with Sriracha chili sauce (you're a brave man!) prompted me to post today. Back in the early days when I didn't know what was going on (quick history for others...I started w/ diagnosis of mastocytic enterocolitis and eventually ended up with a diagnosis of mast cell activation disease.) I had frequent bouts of "burning mouth syndrome." (Didn't know what it was called at the time, but Dr. Afrin labeled it for me.) If you're interested in reading about it - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21420635
After months of "oral torture" I figured out it was pepper (all kinds) that was causing the problem. Interestingly, years earlier when I was dealing with a severe bout of bone pain, my rheumatologist prescribed a capsaicin (an active component of chili peppers) cream for pain relief. I used the cream and ended up in the ER with what looked like chemical burns on my legs. Fast forward to the pepper causing oral burns and a systemic mast cell disorder and all the pieces fit.
I wanted to pass along that capsaicin (likely a main ingredient in your sauce) is a known mast cell trigger. IMO, it should be on the "no-no" list for anyone dealing with a systemic mast cell disorder. For those dealing with peripheral MC issues, I would suggest using it very cautiously. Here's a link to an article about MCs and capsaicin:
http://koreamed.org/SearchBasic.php?RID ... %5BISSU%5D
(It's an older article, but it stands the test of time.)
I'm pretty much unable to have anything seasoned (translate...tastes good!) but such is life. A bland diet surely beats trips to the ER with a myriad of MC related symptoms. A trade off I'll take!
I have been meaning to post with some updated info on MCs...I'll try to do that soon. Perhaps some of the information will be helpful to others.
So, as the saying goes Tex, "stay off the sauce!"
Best to all,
Julie
Hi Julie,
It's good to see a post by you, and thank you for the information, and the link. I hope that you're doing well these days (other than having to stick with a bland diet).
Fortunately my reactions are not nearly as severe as yours, but yes, I'm staying off the sauce. I haven't touched it since that experiment.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Tex
It's good to see a post by you, and thank you for the information, and the link. I hope that you're doing well these days (other than having to stick with a bland diet).
Fortunately my reactions are not nearly as severe as yours, but yes, I'm staying off the sauce. I haven't touched it since that experiment.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hey Tex,
Stopping by here is like running into an old friend you haven't seen in a long while...familiar and comforting. I've said it before, but it bears repeating; I couldn't have survived this mast cell journey without the support from those on this board. I will be forever grateful.
Life with MCAD is challenging. I have had to greatly alter my lifestyle in order to try and keep my mast cells settled. (Even with taking massive amounts of antihistamines and mast cell stabilizers.) However, it takes very little to "fire them up" and although I avoid all known triggers (food, activity, environmental, situational, etc.) it's just impossible to avoid every trigger. (Particularly when the triggers can change from day to day.) Some days I long for my old life when I was working, active and able to move freely through the world without fear of a massive mast cell event. But, honestly Tex, what good does it do to fixate on what "isn't"? You have to accept and move on with life, even if it does mean there is a new "normal."
In the good news category, I recently committed fully to a low histamine diet. (Nutritionist had me try FODMAP for 2 weeks, and I had a big flare. Figured out that on FODMAP I ate a ton of tuna and shrimp. Light bulb moment...too much histamine.) I previously hadn't gone with the low histamine diet, as Dr. Afrin told me it wasn't effective for every MC patient. In all honesty, I didn't want to limit my already skimpy dietary choices by doing low histamine. But, it's been several months on the low histamine diet and I can say definitively that I suffer from far less itching and hives now. It's made a difference for the better, no denying it!
On that note here's a link to the low histamine guide I use to help with food choices. I'm sure there are many others, I have just found this one to be very comprehensive.
http://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/downloads.html - click on the English (or French or German) pdf under the category "Detailed Sighi grocery list" You will probably have to use the translate tab for this page as it is not written in english but it's worth the extra effort.
A couple of other mast cell resources I wanted to pass along -
A chapter (from a medical book on mast cell biology) on MCAD that was written by Dr. Afrin. Very comprehensive.
https://www.novapublishers.com/catalog/ ... s_id=42603
And this recent publication from Dr. Afrin as well, which discusses diagnostic parameters for MCAD. I think what may be the most valuable is Figure 4, which is a symptoms questionnaire with values given for each response. A very different, but user friendly, tool for looking at symptoms of MCAD.
http://www.wjgnet.com/2218-6204/full/v3/i1/1.htm
Perhaps someone will find these helpful if they are plagued by multiple issues stemming from aberrant mast cell activity.
I also wanted to let you know that Dr. Afrin moved from MUSC to the University of Minnesota this summer. Here's his new contact info: Dr. Lawrence Afrin, University of Minnesota Medical Center, Minneapolis - 612-625-5411 for appointment.
I think that covers the updates. (Whew!) I'll keep the board updated if there is "breaking news" in the world of mast cells.
In the meantime, wishing everyone here good health!
Julie
Stopping by here is like running into an old friend you haven't seen in a long while...familiar and comforting. I've said it before, but it bears repeating; I couldn't have survived this mast cell journey without the support from those on this board. I will be forever grateful.
Life with MCAD is challenging. I have had to greatly alter my lifestyle in order to try and keep my mast cells settled. (Even with taking massive amounts of antihistamines and mast cell stabilizers.) However, it takes very little to "fire them up" and although I avoid all known triggers (food, activity, environmental, situational, etc.) it's just impossible to avoid every trigger. (Particularly when the triggers can change from day to day.) Some days I long for my old life when I was working, active and able to move freely through the world without fear of a massive mast cell event. But, honestly Tex, what good does it do to fixate on what "isn't"? You have to accept and move on with life, even if it does mean there is a new "normal."
In the good news category, I recently committed fully to a low histamine diet. (Nutritionist had me try FODMAP for 2 weeks, and I had a big flare. Figured out that on FODMAP I ate a ton of tuna and shrimp. Light bulb moment...too much histamine.) I previously hadn't gone with the low histamine diet, as Dr. Afrin told me it wasn't effective for every MC patient. In all honesty, I didn't want to limit my already skimpy dietary choices by doing low histamine. But, it's been several months on the low histamine diet and I can say definitively that I suffer from far less itching and hives now. It's made a difference for the better, no denying it!
On that note here's a link to the low histamine guide I use to help with food choices. I'm sure there are many others, I have just found this one to be very comprehensive.
http://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/downloads.html - click on the English (or French or German) pdf under the category "Detailed Sighi grocery list" You will probably have to use the translate tab for this page as it is not written in english but it's worth the extra effort.
A couple of other mast cell resources I wanted to pass along -
A chapter (from a medical book on mast cell biology) on MCAD that was written by Dr. Afrin. Very comprehensive.
https://www.novapublishers.com/catalog/ ... s_id=42603
And this recent publication from Dr. Afrin as well, which discusses diagnostic parameters for MCAD. I think what may be the most valuable is Figure 4, which is a symptoms questionnaire with values given for each response. A very different, but user friendly, tool for looking at symptoms of MCAD.
http://www.wjgnet.com/2218-6204/full/v3/i1/1.htm
Perhaps someone will find these helpful if they are plagued by multiple issues stemming from aberrant mast cell activity.
I also wanted to let you know that Dr. Afrin moved from MUSC to the University of Minnesota this summer. Here's his new contact info: Dr. Lawrence Afrin, University of Minnesota Medical Center, Minneapolis - 612-625-5411 for appointment.
I think that covers the updates. (Whew!) I'll keep the board updated if there is "breaking news" in the world of mast cells.
In the meantime, wishing everyone here good health!
Julie
Julie,
You're right of course — the only way to reestablish peace and happiness in our lives is to accept the changes required in order to keep our medical issues under control, and then make the most of the things that we can still enjoy (because our symptoms are under control). Life is good, we just have to learn to appreciate it from a different perspective.
Thank you for the links. I had the second one, but not the other 2. And thank you for the updated information on Dr. Afrin. I updated his information in our listing.
Thanks for the wishes of good health, and we certainly hope that you enjoy good health, also. See you next time.
Tex
You're right of course — the only way to reestablish peace and happiness in our lives is to accept the changes required in order to keep our medical issues under control, and then make the most of the things that we can still enjoy (because our symptoms are under control). Life is good, we just have to learn to appreciate it from a different perspective.
Thank you for the links. I had the second one, but not the other 2. And thank you for the updated information on Dr. Afrin. I updated his information in our listing.
Thanks for the wishes of good health, and we certainly hope that you enjoy good health, also. See you next time.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.