Anyone heard of Robert's formula or mucus-inducing foods?

megamoxie · Post by **megamoxie** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:29 am

Hello-
I went to a naturopath yesterday and she wants me to have some blood tests for food sensitivities, as well as try some probiotics, avoid mucus foods (which includes giving up bananas and peanut butter, oh no, sigh), and try Robert's formula (an herbal preparation). Has anyone else heard of these or tried these? Any success? Is there a list of mucus-inducing foods anywhere? I tried a couple of searches but did not find it. Bananas are one of the few foods that I really like that I thought I could still eat safely. I have never had a bad reaction to them; when my stomach/GI tract feels its worst, I could always have a banana. I shall be very, very sad if I have to give them up too, along with everything else (chocolate, dairy, gluten, citrus, caffeine, all coffee even decaf, alcohol... I don't really miss red meat). What is so bad about mucus, anyway? Wouldn't I be more irritated without it?

I saw some of the discussion on here about the difference between the Enterolab tests and the blood tests, and it makes sense to me. I have received the kit for Enterolab but I have to go off oil supplements for a week and then collect sufficient specimen to send, so it could take me a little bit of time. So I guess I will need to do both. Sigh. None of this is covered by my insurance plan, and I'd be up to around $1500, with some costs ongoing. How much of this is really helpful, and how much is snake oil?

There were a number of things I liked about the naturopath, though -- she supports treatment through diet and natural supplements, and she says I need to listen to my body.

I'm not going to try anything new until Monday. I have a wedding to go to tomorrow, and I'm nervous enough as it is!

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:25 am

From the experience of the people here on this board as well as the knowledge of Tex and others and my own experience I would say that your best bang for the buck is to go with the Enterolab test. It was the knowledge I gained through that testing that has allowed me to heal. I continue to avoid all the foods I tested positive for and now can leave the house without worrying where the nearest bathroom is. When I joined this forum I was afraid to step outside with the dog. I needed to always be a few steps from a bathroom. Now I can take hour long walks with my pooch without worry. I have spent money on conventional doctors and naturopaths. Truly none of that was helpful. It was not until I had the Enterolab testing done and followed the advice I found on this forum that I was able to get well. I do take some supplements but would be wary of any that have long ingredients list if for no other reason then if you react to them there is no way to know what exactly it is you are reacting to. . The supplements I take are all nutrients the body needs that I feel may be lacking in my diet. They are truly supplemental. The foundation of healing is in avoiding the foods that are making you sick. Peanuts are legumes, like soy, and many people here have trouble with them. It is probably best to avoid them. Many people here eat bananas without problems. I avoid them because I avoid high carbohydrate foods, but that's me. If you find them helpful I don't see any reason not to eat them.

Naturopaths don't necessarily know more about MC than conventional doctors so it is wise to be skeptical of their advice. They tend to recommend a lot of supplements. Most people here have found it helpful to avoid most supplements, at least when they are first starting out. Vitamin D is an exception, as long as you are careful about the quality of the supplement you buy, making sure it does not contain ay inactive ingredients that could cause problems.

I hope the wedding goes ok. I know how anxiety producing those kinds of event can be.

Jean

Post by **tex** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:33 am

with Jean.

IMO, naturopaths start out with the correct basic idea (listen to patients and use natural healing methods), but they quickly jump the track by going overboard. They tend to load the patient up with herbal supplements (which are mostly a waste of money, especially early on, and some of which are virtually guaranteed to perpetuate the D by irritating the gut), and they promote blood tests which are worthless for the purpose of treating MC.

When treating MC, always remember that less is more. IOW, the less junk and toxic ingredients we put into our body, the faster our digestive organs will heal. And guess what? As a huge bonus, less is not only much easier to do, but it's also a heck of a lot less expensive than more.

Regarding mucus: The digestive tract mucosa produces copious amounts of mucus when inflamed, in order to try to protect itself from possible pathogens in the fecal stream. So mucus is a very common issue with active MC.

The most common cause of mucus production in the colon however, is fiber (insoluble fiber). Research shows that the way that fiber induces "regularity" (as fiber proponents prefer to refer to it), is by physically tearing the cells in the mucosal lining of the colon. When those cells are physically damaged that way, the immune system promptly marks then for replacement. Before they are destroyed by the immune system, they dump their total reserves of mucus into the lumen (the interior of the gut). And the extra lubrication provided by the mucus causes an increase in the intestinal motility rate. Fiber fanatics say that this is good — I say that there is nothing good about it. And Dr. Eades agrees with me:

In today’s modern world we all know what cigarettes do. The irritation of the smoke damages the lining of the tubes that carry air into and out of the lungs. As the damage continues, goblet cells (so called because they resemble little goblets), the cells that produce mucus, increase in size and number, producing more mucus to coat and protect the cells lining the airways. As the smoking continues, so does the damage, and so does the double duty of the goblet cells. Ultimately, in far too many people, the production of the protective mucus from the goblet cells isn’t able to keep up with the damaging effects of the smoke and cell injury occurs. As these cells are damaged, they cease to function properly, and ultimately die. They are then replaced by new cells, which themselves go through the same cycle. Somewhere along the way one of these cells, due to the damaging effects from the smoke, undergoes a malignant transformation and starts to reproduce itself. When this happens lung cancer is born.

We know what happens to the lungs with smoking. We know that all the coughing and mucus production isn’t a good thing–it isn’t protecting us from disease; it is the result of disease. But if we lived in a society that worshipped bringing up mucus every day, how long would it take us to figure out that smoking wasn’t particularly good for us?

Into this society of mucus lovers a researcher comes along and writes a paper showing how cigarettes cause an increase in mucus. He talks to the press and tells them about his research, saying, ‘I’ve now figured out how these wonderful cigarettes work to improve our mucus production. They damage the cells, which then make and release more mucus to protect themselves. It’s really wonderful how the body responds thusly. Now that we know how it all works, let’s go out and smoke even more.’

Preposterous, you’re probably thinking. Only if you live in a society that doesn’t worship regular mucus production.

We live in a society that worships regular bowel movements. Doctors for the last few hundred years have focused much of their effort in ensuring the regularity of their patients. Many people, the elderly especially, are obsessed with moving their bowels daily. Most people, if asked, would probably reckon that it’s not good to have fecal matter just sitting around in the colon. Get it out of there, they would say. It can’t be healthy. Just as it escaped the notice of our doctors in the scenario I imagined above that animals in the wild don’t bring up copious amounts of mucus daily, it has escaped the notice of doctors today that animals in the wild, especially carnivorous animals, don’t always have daily bowel movements, and that when they do, such BMs aren’t always huge and loose.

Into our bowel-regularity-worshipping society there has come a substance that ensures regularity. It’s called fiber. It is sold everywhere in diverse forms. All manner of ‘experts’ from our doctors to our grandparents encourage us to consume plenty of fiber. If we can’t get enough from the foods we eat to achieve regularity, we are encouraged to buy supplements. Everyone is on the regularity bandwagon and, by extension, the fiber bandwagon. The much despised Jane Brody has written countless times on the virtues of fiber, WebMD encourages us to get our share, even C. Everett Coop exhorts us to keep the fiber coming. And, despite numerous studies showing that fiber doesn’t really do squat for us healthwise, everyone continues to recommend it.

To paraphrase John Huston: Evidence? We ain’t got no evidence. We don’t need no evidence. We don’t have to show you any stinking evidence.

Into this society of bowel movement lovers a researcher comes along and writes a paper showing how fiber causes an increase in regularity. Our intrepid researcher’s name is Dr. Paul L. McNeil; he is a cell biologist at the Medical College of Georgia. I’ll let him tell how it all works.

When you eat high-fiber foods, they bang up against the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract, rupturing their outer covering. What we are saying is this banging and tearing increases the level of lubricating mucus. It’s a good thing.
Indeed?

A cautionary tale of mucus fore and aft

Tex

AnnW · Post by **AnnW** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:14 pm

I'm with Tex and Jean on this one.

The most mucus forming foods are refined sugars and starches, grains (particularly gluten grains), and dairy. Most MC patients are already avoiding these foods. I'm not sure it is necessary to restrict any further. Fiber irritates the gut and is the last thing MC patients need when trying to heal an inflammed gut. Most vegetables contain enough fiber, which is softened by the cooking process. The only supplements I recommend (as a nutritionist) initially is a good hypoallergenic multi-vitamin/mineral after things have settled down. Other supplements can be added later after healing is well underway, if warranted. Blood tests for food sensitivities are far less accurate than stool tests for gut allergens. The EnterLab stool tests are a greater value for the money.

Dr. Ann

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:41 pm

Mucus forming foods sounds like another name for 'high inflammation' foods.
also with the mention of removing banana's sounds like it is also linked to removing high histamine foods.

as Tex and Jean have mentioned, any supplements, or blends of supplements with more than 2 ingredients at the early stage of healing are fraught with danger, and generally a waste of money. liquid herbs are harsh and ignite inflammation in a MC'er.

and as you have already pondered, based on the learnings here, the enterolab testing is a much better investment if you want to know major intolerences.

Practitioners (any practitioner - naturopaths, nutrititionists, etc) follow guidelines and protocols. What i have learnt in the past 5 years is that most of the protocols and supplement regimes for UC or Crohns, do not work for MC.

Bang for your buck
- do the enterolab testing, take Vit D3, follow a low inflammation, low fibre, bland gut healing eating plan for 3 months. Watch out for histamine reactions
as things improve, slowly add more ingredients, and start to add supps like Magnesium, active forms of B's, Zinc, Vit C.

A practitioner and additional testing will be of use in 12 months if there are still symptoms and issues. Majority of people can get vast improvement following the path that many other MC'ers have followed.

the good thing the practitioner did say was 'listen to your body' if you can have small amounts of banana and not have symptoms, keep them, they are fantastic source of potassium etc.
In MC world no set eating plan/diet plan like Fodmaps, Gaps, Paleo etc works, we have to tweak the ingredients to suit each of us.

hope this helps

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:08 pm

What about juicing? My naturoapth wants me try try sipping green juice drinks, through the day, to help my body absorb nutrients.

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:11 pm

Linda
depends on the ingredients of the juice, and how fibrous it is...and how much you have

keep in mind that juice will also be a high acid item for you....

with the type of inflammation that occurs with MC, our bodies absorb more nutrients from well cooked veges and proteins...

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:18 pm

Gabes,

Isn't a lot of the fiber, in the pulp, which is eliminated before drinking the juice?

And I'm already slightly on the acidic side.... hmmmmmm

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:19 pm

Linda
for now I would focus on doing the MTHFR supp corrections....get the cells corrected first.
Your ability to absorb nutrients via the gut and make them useful in the body is reliant on having balanced cells...

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:24 pm

linda

Isn't a lot of the fiber, in the pulp, which is eliminated before drinking the juice?

depends on the ingredients you are using, the type of juicer you have, etc etc etc.

and the acid level change would not be ideal for you.

if it was me, down the track once some healing has happened, you can add in further ingredients with no reactions then consider small amounts of juices with 2-3 ingredients max.
for now, I dont think it is the right thing.

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:31 pm

Thanks, Gabes! :)

Why would the acid level change not be ideal for me?

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:52 pm

havent you been struggling to balance the acid? to minimise gas and bloat?

Post by **tex** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:15 pm

Is there any evidence to suggest that gas/bloat is associated with acid? I always thought the worst gas problems were due to low gastric acid, resulting in poor digestion/fermentation issues in the intestines (but I'm just guessing here).

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:25 pm

I do have gas / bloat issues...and it may be SIBO, but I also take 3500mg of betaine hcl after each meal (which is a lot) due to low stomach acid.
My last bloodwork showed my acidity to be 5.5 & it should be closer to 6.5.
Im confused.

Post by **tex** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:57 pm

Linda,

I agree, that's a lot. But I can certainly see how it might be appropriate. Do you use the same amount for every meal, regardless of size? Maybe less would work (better) for smaller (or easier to digest) meals. That said, I realize that the use of Betaine is a rather inexact science. It's a shame that better guidelines aren't available.

I wonder if Ann (AnnW) might have had any past experience with this issue (dosage optimization and monitoring).

Tex