Incidentally . . .
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Polly,
We live in an increasingly complex and convoluted world. As the theme song for the TV series Monk goes, "It's a Jungle Out There".
I apologize for possibly
, but apparently I wasn't thinking very clearly a few days ago when you posted about the risks involved with today's agricultural inputs. I totally overlooked a rather obvious comparison with another aspect of modern life that you can certainly identify with. Actually, the plight of the farmer and the plight of physicians are very, very similar, IMO. Like the inputs used in agriculture, the inputs used in medicine are the subject of concern for many of us, and similarly, the choices of inputs used have had, and will surely continue to have a very significant influence on our future health, both as individuals, and as a society. And those choices are even more important because rather than affecting some of the food that we eat (which we may be in a position to avoid in some situations, and which may or may not actually have an effect on us), the inputs, particularly medications — which are the "pesticides" used in the medical profession, tend to affect us even more directly, since they are administered directly to our body, usually in a systemic fashion. And while the claimed evils of GMOs are suspected (but never proven), the dangers of many medications are very significant, and well-documented.
I have no doubt that you take that responsibility much more seriously than most of your colleagues, but I'm also sure that you often wish that you had better options available to you. However, since physicians can no longer simply advise a patient to "take an aspirin and call me in the morning", and your options are limited to whatever the FDA, and hospital/clinic administrators, and insurance companies, have approved, you typically find yourself choosing the lesser of 2 (or 20) evils, when writing a prescription. Patients expect a pill to make them all better, just as they expect to find the shelves of their local supermarket well-stocked with abundant choices of affordable food.
Like the farmer facing a weed-infested field (and the possibility of a crop failure if he doesn't rescue that field from the weeds), you can't simply say to yourself (or the patient), "Sorry, no safe medication choices are available, so we'll just have to monitor your progress and hope that you pull through OK". And if you prescribe a medication, it has to be something that the patient can afford, or it's no better than doing nothing. So you face the same sort of tough choices that farmers face on a day-to-day basis, and you make the best decision you can, based on your experience, within the limitations imposed on you by the "system".
Am I wrong?
Love,
Tex
We live in an increasingly complex and convoluted world. As the theme song for the TV series Monk goes, "It's a Jungle Out There".
I apologize for possibly
, but apparently I wasn't thinking very clearly a few days ago when you posted about the risks involved with today's agricultural inputs. I totally overlooked a rather obvious comparison with another aspect of modern life that you can certainly identify with. Actually, the plight of the farmer and the plight of physicians are very, very similar, IMO. Like the inputs used in agriculture, the inputs used in medicine are the subject of concern for many of us, and similarly, the choices of inputs used have had, and will surely continue to have a very significant influence on our future health, both as individuals, and as a society. And those choices are even more important because rather than affecting some of the food that we eat (which we may be in a position to avoid in some situations, and which may or may not actually have an effect on us), the inputs, particularly medications — which are the "pesticides" used in the medical profession, tend to affect us even more directly, since they are administered directly to our body, usually in a systemic fashion. And while the claimed evils of GMOs are suspected (but never proven), the dangers of many medications are very significant, and well-documented.I have no doubt that you take that responsibility much more seriously than most of your colleagues, but I'm also sure that you often wish that you had better options available to you. However, since physicians can no longer simply advise a patient to "take an aspirin and call me in the morning", and your options are limited to whatever the FDA, and hospital/clinic administrators, and insurance companies, have approved, you typically find yourself choosing the lesser of 2 (or 20) evils, when writing a prescription. Patients expect a pill to make them all better, just as they expect to find the shelves of their local supermarket well-stocked with abundant choices of affordable food.
Like the farmer facing a weed-infested field (and the possibility of a crop failure if he doesn't rescue that field from the weeds), you can't simply say to yourself (or the patient), "Sorry, no safe medication choices are available, so we'll just have to monitor your progress and hope that you pull through OK". And if you prescribe a medication, it has to be something that the patient can afford, or it's no better than doing nothing. So you face the same sort of tough choices that farmers face on a day-to-day basis, and you make the best decision you can, based on your experience, within the limitations imposed on you by the "system".
Am I wrong?
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
And in other news:
Yep, it's an increasingly complex and convoluted world.
Tex
Critics of Dow herbicide sue U.S. EPA over approvalA coalition of U.S. farmer and environmental groups filed a lawsuit on Wednesday seeking to overturn regulatory approval granted last week for an herbicide developed by Dow AgroSciences.
Yep, it's an increasingly complex and convoluted world.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
It is tough for those of us that must choose each time we go to the grocery store.
pesticides or bugs?
organic or less expensive?
from USA or not?
In the summer months we bought produce from a local farmer as much as possible. Whether that is good or bad depends on who you ask. Supporting our local several generation family farm seems right and it also seems the produce would be fresher and use less gasoline to deliver. I don't believe the family farmer is checked for what type of insecticides may have been used.
DH loves corn on the cob and we cook it in the husks in the microwave. We did that one time with the local produce, cooked a bunch of worms, and never bought corn from there again.
We eat a lot of bananas the organic ones are 69¢ per pound, the others 48¢ per pound and lots bigger and nicer looking. Since they have such a thick peel that we always remove I buy the cheaper, plumper ones.
pesticides or bugs?
organic or less expensive?
from USA or not?
In the summer months we bought produce from a local farmer as much as possible. Whether that is good or bad depends on who you ask. Supporting our local several generation family farm seems right and it also seems the produce would be fresher and use less gasoline to deliver. I don't believe the family farmer is checked for what type of insecticides may have been used.
DH loves corn on the cob and we cook it in the husks in the microwave. We did that one time with the local produce, cooked a bunch of worms, and never bought corn from there again.
We eat a lot of bananas the organic ones are 69¢ per pound, the others 48¢ per pound and lots bigger and nicer looking. Since they have such a thick peel that we always remove I buy the cheaper, plumper ones.
Theresa
MC and UC 2014
in remission since June 1, 2014
We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. ~Jim Rohn
MC and UC 2014
in remission since June 1, 2014
We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. ~Jim Rohn
Oooooh, Linda! Lovely photo! Thanks. Every year I am seeing fewer Monarchs, despite planting more of their host plants.
Tex,
AARRRRGH! You can say that again! Oh, never mind....I see you've already said it twice! TeeHee. Interesting and apropos analogy. It seems that there are a myriad of situations in life where we have to make choices when we are between a rock and a hard place, as Theresa points out. Sigh.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that GMO technology won't destroy any of the foods in my limited diet (by destroy I mean......change their structure to the point that I can no longer tolerate them). Luckily, I eat very few grains and never soybeans, although I know other foods, like rice, have been altered.
Even salmon have been altered.....horrors!
I know that, officially, the jury is still out regarding harmful effects of GMOs, but it seems to me that many more folks have digestive issues in recent years, corresponding with wider use of GMOs. It certainly could be coincidental, of course, but I am amazed by the number of people who now have digestive symptoms and have tried to eliminate problem foods from their diet. Fourteen years ago, I was seen as an oddball by restaurant staff......the last few times we ate out, the waiters told me how common food sensitivities are, and the last 2 waiters we had were GF themselves!
Love,
Polly
Tex,
AARRRRGH! You can say that again! Oh, never mind....I see you've already said it twice! TeeHee. Interesting and apropos analogy. It seems that there are a myriad of situations in life where we have to make choices when we are between a rock and a hard place, as Theresa points out. Sigh.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that GMO technology won't destroy any of the foods in my limited diet (by destroy I mean......change their structure to the point that I can no longer tolerate them). Luckily, I eat very few grains and never soybeans, although I know other foods, like rice, have been altered.
Even salmon have been altered.....horrors!
I know that, officially, the jury is still out regarding harmful effects of GMOs, but it seems to me that many more folks have digestive issues in recent years, corresponding with wider use of GMOs. It certainly could be coincidental, of course, but I am amazed by the number of people who now have digestive symptoms and have tried to eliminate problem foods from their diet. Fourteen years ago, I was seen as an oddball by restaurant staff......the last few times we ate out, the waiters told me how common food sensitivities are, and the last 2 waiters we had were GF themselves!
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
But that just proves that the corn was not a BT GMO variety, and it was probably free of pesticides (and probably organic). If the corn seed does not have the BT genetic alteration, and it is not sprayed by a vermicide to kill the worms (or a BT-based organically-approved pesticide), one can virtually guarantee that it will have ear worms. That's why farmers use control measures, because no one likes to see worms eating their corn before they have a chance at it themselves.Theresa wrote:DH loves corn on the cob and we cook it in the husks in the microwave. We did that one time with the local produce, cooked a bunch of worms, and never bought corn from there again.
If you will peel down the top few inches of the shuck, and pick off the worms before cooking, you can have your organic corn and eat it too.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Polly,
I'm still seeing a few Monarchs trickling through each day. It just seems that the migration is long and drawn out, rather than concentrated, the way it used to be.
I too sure hope that doesn't happen to our food, now that scientists have discovered how to make "improvements" so much faster.
It took us almost 10,000 years to figure out that wheat gluten is bad for us (as a species, not just as individuals), so if humans are still inhabiting this planet, say a 1,000 years from now (it shouldn't take 10,000 years, because the rate of increase of technology is continually accelerating), someone will probably figure out why, next to adopting wheat as the "staff of life", GMOs are the second biggest long-term health mistake ever made by the human race.
Love,
Tex
I'm still seeing a few Monarchs trickling through each day. It just seems that the migration is long and drawn out, rather than concentrated, the way it used to be.
You know, over the decades some once-popular products (not necessarily in the food category) have fallen by the wayside as consumers slowly stopped buying them, apparently because the manufacturers insisted on continually "improving" them until eventually they were so "improved" that no one wanted to use them.Polly wrote:I am keeping my fingers crossed that GMO technology won't destroy any of the foods in my limited diet
I too sure hope that doesn't happen to our food, now that scientists have discovered how to make "improvements" so much faster.It took us almost 10,000 years to figure out that wheat gluten is bad for us (as a species, not just as individuals), so if humans are still inhabiting this planet, say a 1,000 years from now (it shouldn't take 10,000 years, because the rate of increase of technology is continually accelerating), someone will probably figure out why, next to adopting wheat as the "staff of life", GMOs are the second biggest long-term health mistake ever made by the human race.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
When I was a kiddie, my grandmother, who was a super cook, taught me that finding worms in the ear of corn when husking it was a good sign!
Tex, yes, it took us 10,000 years to figure out that gluten was not our friend, but it's still a minority of people who realize that, unfortunately. And, if we are saying that our hunter-gatherer genes have not evolved enough yet to be able to appropriately digest wheat, then it is possible that it could take at least 10,000 years for us to be able to tolerate some of the GM foods too.
Love,
Polly
Tex, yes, it took us 10,000 years to figure out that gluten was not our friend, but it's still a minority of people who realize that, unfortunately. And, if we are saying that our hunter-gatherer genes have not evolved enough yet to be able to appropriately digest wheat, then it is possible that it could take at least 10,000 years for us to be able to tolerate some of the GM foods too.
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
More food for thought. This article appeared in Mother Earth News. If you go to the link and then go to the bottom to "read more of the article", you can read the scientific abstract. Should be right up your alley, Tex!
http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-foo ... 2zkin.aspx
http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-foo ... 2zkin.aspx
Yes, I sort of keep up with Stephanie Seneff's work. I have a problem buying her claims in this one at face value though. The main reason why celiac disease is more prominent now is because people began to consume much higher volumes of gluten-containing foods about 40 or 50 years ago, and prior to that time, doctors pretty much ignored the disease. When people eat more, they present with symptoms sooner in life, and more people develop the disease during their lifetime, thus increasing the incidence of the disease. And when doctors ignore a disease, they don't do a very good job of diagnosing it. The poor diagnostic rate of MC prior to roughly 10 years ago is a case in point. Prior to that, doctors pretty much ignored the disease, claiming that it was a rare disease. If you don't look for MC, you don't find it. But once they began to actually look for it, lo and behold they discovered that it wasn't actually rare at all. In fact it's much more prevalent than the other IBDs and celiac disease.
Basically the same situation applies to celiac disease. They didn't even know what caused it until 1947 (I believe that's the correct year), because a Dutch doctor discovered the connection when bread was no longer rationed in the Netherlands, following WWII. As long as bread was largely unavailable to the public, the disease almost disappeared, and when it became available again, many kids began to develop the disease. Today, celiac disease is making the headlines regularly, so sure, doctors are diagnosing it now, because more doctors are looking for it.
Seneff's charts showing how celiac disease prevalence parallels glyphosate usage is irrelevant because anyone who has a little graphing experience can easily plot similar parallels with glyphosate use plotted against various other environmental issues, such as the boom in the use of soy in food, or the rapid increase in the use of food additives, preservatives, coloring, etc. by the food manufacturing industry, during that same period of time. Most people can't even pronounce half the stuff in their food these days, but they eat it anyway. Without studies based on random, double-blind controlled trials of her claims, we have no way of knowing if there is any validity in them or not.
But all of this is irrelevant, because not a single human on this planet has a digestive system that is capable of properly digesting the wheat gluten molecule. That is an absolute fact. And furthermore, Dr. Fasano's group published research in 2006 that shows that everyone (not just celiacs) experiences an increase in the production of zonulin, which causes increased permeability of the small intestine, following the ingestion of wheat gluten. That makes it pretty clear that absolutely no human should be including wheat in their diet. Wheat caused celiac disease for 10,000 years prior to the development of glyphosate (though it only began to show up in the medical records roughly 2,000 years ago because doctors apparently didn't have a clue prior to then), so why try to pin the blame for celiac disease on something that didn't even exist 50 years ago, let alone 2,000 or 10,000 years ago.
Tex
Basically the same situation applies to celiac disease. They didn't even know what caused it until 1947 (I believe that's the correct year), because a Dutch doctor discovered the connection when bread was no longer rationed in the Netherlands, following WWII. As long as bread was largely unavailable to the public, the disease almost disappeared, and when it became available again, many kids began to develop the disease. Today, celiac disease is making the headlines regularly, so sure, doctors are diagnosing it now, because more doctors are looking for it.
Seneff's charts showing how celiac disease prevalence parallels glyphosate usage is irrelevant because anyone who has a little graphing experience can easily plot similar parallels with glyphosate use plotted against various other environmental issues, such as the boom in the use of soy in food, or the rapid increase in the use of food additives, preservatives, coloring, etc. by the food manufacturing industry, during that same period of time. Most people can't even pronounce half the stuff in their food these days, but they eat it anyway. Without studies based on random, double-blind controlled trials of her claims, we have no way of knowing if there is any validity in them or not.
But all of this is irrelevant, because not a single human on this planet has a digestive system that is capable of properly digesting the wheat gluten molecule. That is an absolute fact. And furthermore, Dr. Fasano's group published research in 2006 that shows that everyone (not just celiacs) experiences an increase in the production of zonulin, which causes increased permeability of the small intestine, following the ingestion of wheat gluten. That makes it pretty clear that absolutely no human should be including wheat in their diet. Wheat caused celiac disease for 10,000 years prior to the development of glyphosate (though it only began to show up in the medical records roughly 2,000 years ago because doctors apparently didn't have a clue prior to then), so why try to pin the blame for celiac disease on something that didn't even exist 50 years ago, let alone 2,000 or 10,000 years ago.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi!
This is kind of off topic, but yesterday I had lunch with Kathy (aka Hazel), and she showed me gorgeous pictures of her monarch butterfly project. First she planted milkweed seeds and got one plant. Then, miracle of miracles, a monarch worm appeared (not the right term but I'm not a biologist). She then documented in pictures the stages it went through, and finally one day she sat for many hours until it hatched into a beautiful monarch right before her eyes! It was magnificent! Yay Kathy!!
Love,
Alice
This is kind of off topic, but yesterday I had lunch with Kathy (aka Hazel), and she showed me gorgeous pictures of her monarch butterfly project. First she planted milkweed seeds and got one plant. Then, miracle of miracles, a monarch worm appeared (not the right term but I'm not a biologist). She then documented in pictures the stages it went through, and finally one day she sat for many hours until it hatched into a beautiful monarch right before her eyes! It was magnificent! Yay Kathy!!
Love,
Alice
Beautiful picture!
On worms in food...when I was a little girl in Burma, I went raspberry picking with my friends. I found the biggest, juiciest raspberry of them all. When I looked inside, there was a worm! My ten-year-old mind came up with two choices: eat the raspberry with the worm, or throw away the raspberry and the worm. Why it didn't occur to me to pick out the worm and eat the raspberry I don't know, but I ate the raspberry AND the worm.
On worms in food...when I was a little girl in Burma, I went raspberry picking with my friends. I found the biggest, juiciest raspberry of them all. When I looked inside, there was a worm! My ten-year-old mind came up with two choices: eat the raspberry with the worm, or throw away the raspberry and the worm. Why it didn't occur to me to pick out the worm and eat the raspberry I don't know, but I ate the raspberry AND the worm.
Martha