Finally, A Realistic Article About Gut Bacteria

Feel free to discuss any topic of general interest, so long as nothing you post here is likely to be interpreted as insulting, and/or inflammatory, nor clearly designed to provoke any individual or group. Please be considerate of others feelings, and they will be considerate of yours.

Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh

Post Reply
User avatar
tex
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 35067
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 9:00 am
Location: Central Texas

Finally, A Realistic Article About Gut Bacteria

Post by tex »

Hi All,

In the stampede to blame gut bacteria on everything that ails us, I've often felt as though I'm the only one who views the whole fiasco as little more than a modern day gold rush — that is, it's a rush by opportunists to take as much gold as possible from gullible consumers. Apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way. Case in point:
In 2001, Joshua Lederberg, a Nobel Prize-winning biologist, coined the term "microbiome," naming the trillions of microorganisms that reside in and on our bodies. Today, if you type that word into Google, you'll turn up thousands of hits linking gut bacteria to a laundry list of health problems, from food allergies to Ebola. Between 2007 and 2012, the number of journal articles published on the microbiome increased by nearly 250 percent. Our bodily inhabitants are quickly being cast as culprits or saviors for a diverse array of ailments.

The hype has kicked off a gold rush. Big food companies—including Nestle, PepsiCo, Monsanto, and General Mills—have funded gut bacteria studies, and some have even opened centers to develop foods that interact with the microbiome, such as probiotics. According to Transparency Market Research the global probiotics market is expected to reach an astonishing $45 billion by 2018.
Dr. Lita Proctor heads the National Institutes of Health (NIH) Human Microbiome Project (HMP), an outgrowth of the Human Genome Project. "We are discovering a whole new ecosystem," she says. But "I do have some fear—we all do in the field—that the hype and the potential overpromise, and the idea that somehow this is going to be different—there is a terrific fear that it will all backfire."

The goal of the first phase of the HMP was to identify the microbial makeup of a "healthy" microbiome. And, in a study published earlier this year, researchers made an important discovery—that there is no such thing. Even among people who were examined and found to be perfectly healthy, each person's microbiome was unique.

"We were going about it all wrong," Proctor explains. "It is not the makeup—these communities come together and they actually become bigger than the sum of their parts…It almost doesn't matter who is present, it just matters what they are doing."
And as I've pointed out many times:
Eisen says that one of the most common errors in studies is confusion between correlation and causation. "The microbiome has 400 million different variables that you can measure about it," Eisen explains. "The different sites, the different species, the relative abundance of those species, the variation—if you have that many variables, I can guarantee statistically that some of them will be perfectly correlated with Crohn's disease and have nothing to do with it."
Sorry, Your Gut Bacteria Are Not the Answer to All Your Health Problems

IMO, the primary problem is that modern science still knows virtually nothing worthwhile about the vital details of how gut bacteria actually impact the way our body performs, and yet everyone is falling all over themselves trying to get rich by exploiting knowledge that they don't even have yet. As always, greed takes over whenever there is a viable market for snake oil. :lol:

Tex
:cowboy:

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
User avatar
AnnW
Adélie Penguin
Adélie Penguin
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:33 pm

Post by AnnW »

Tex:

Although I certainly do not think that our gut microbiome is the root of all health problems, I do think that the overuse/abuse of antibiotics in modern medicine plays a role in many of our modern day dis-eases. I can only speak from my clinical experience, which is 30+ years worth. I rarely see a client with significant health issues who does not need some balancing of the gut flora. It is the only thing I look at? Certainly not! Health problems are always rooted in multiple factors. However, you can't keep killing off the gut microbiome with antibiotics and not expect negative consequences. Most patients have been prescribed multiple sets of antibiotics by the time they reach adulthood. To not investigate the possibility, would (again) be a disservice to the patient.

Dr. Ann
User avatar
tex
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 35067
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 9:00 am
Location: Central Texas

Post by tex »

I agree that our gut parasites have been altered by antibiotics (and designer [synthetic] foods and chemicals that shouldn't be in food), but the human body is an amazingly resilient machine. While there are almost surely cases where problems continue because of unusual circumstances, in most cases the problems can be traced back to an incongruent diet. In the absence of life-threatening infections, when fueled by appropriate (safe, traditional) whole foods, the human body will balance itself in almost every case. That's a built-in capability, and it's one of the reasons why humans thrived for a million years before modern medicine was invented.

At least that's the way I see it.

Tex
:cowboy:

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
User avatar
JFR
Rockhopper Penguin
Rockhopper Penguin
Posts: 1394
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:41 am

Post by JFR »

The point for me is not that gut bacteria don't matter to health, or that antibiotics don't have a harmful effect on gut flora, but that our understanding of gut flora is at such a basic level that we don't even know what constitutes healthy gut flora let alone how to restore it when it is lost beyond eating a diet consisting of safe wholesome foods.

Jean
Blueberry
Gentoo Penguin
Gentoo Penguin
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:15 pm

Post by Blueberry »

I've seen others mention that probiotics helped their bowel issues greatly. I haven't seen good results though. Personally I've tried several different probiotics and none helped my MC. I recall two brands even made me feel worse.

There was something that I did recently though that might concern gut bacteria, and that improved my condition greatly. I was reading Ed McCabe's book, Flood Your Body with Oxygen. He had a quick mention saying that friendly gut bacteria do not mind oxygen, while harmful bacteria prefer to be in a low oxygen environment. Ed's writings are more about ozone and hydrogen peroxide, which are active oxygen ideas, and somethign I've not tried drinking. His mention though reminded me of some writing I'd seen on vortex water being 30% higher in oxygen content. That I believe came from an interview Dr. Mercola had with Professor Pollack concerning structured water.

Anyway, not to ramble to much, I thought I'd give that a try, vortex or mix some water with a blender for 10 minutes and drink it. To my surprise I was 100% well the next day. I kept mixing my drinking water, and remained well for around 45 days this summer. Then I began adding new foods to the diet and became slightly ill. So diet remains key for me, and something I'm working out, but oxygen rich water or maybe its structured water, which possibly effects gut bacteria, helped me nicely.
User avatar
tex
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 35067
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 9:00 am
Location: Central Texas

Post by tex »

JFR wrote:The point for me is not that gut bacteria don't matter to health, or that antibiotics don't have a harmful effect on gut flora, but that our understanding of gut flora is at such a basic level that we don't even know what constitutes healthy gut flora let alone how to restore it when it is lost beyond eating a diet consisting of safe wholesome foods.

Jean
Exactly! Way too many people are pretending that they understand this issue. The reality is that they understand it in the same way that most GI specialists understand MC. IOW, they understand enough about it to be able to make money by exploiting it, but they don't understand it well enough to actually be able to reliably treat associated problems, so they use trial and error treatment recommendations, and hope for the best.

Because the placebo effect is so strong in so many people, they are able to keep the illusion of benefits alive. This is exactly how the snake oil salesmen from a century or so ago operated.

Tex
:cowboy:

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
User avatar
tex
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 35067
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 9:00 am
Location: Central Texas

Post by tex »

Blueberry,

I have no idea whether or not gut bacteria actually benefit from additional oxygen (in the real world environment of the gut), nor whether or not if it does, that might benefit our body, but the internal power plant that provides the energy that keeps the body going is an engine of sorts, and as such, it requires copious amounts of oxygen in order to burn the fuel to provide that energy.

The body is a marvel of engineering design, because each individual cell contains one or more tiny engines (mitochondria, which produce energy from ingested calories). They burn fuel in order to produce the energy needed to cover the needs of the individual cells, and those cells' share of the energy needed to keep the body operating properly. Actually, the mitochondria are more like fuel cells than engines, but they serve the same purpose. And all of these little engines communicate by means of chemical signaling, and by neurological connections, in order to stay synchronized, so that they essentially function as an integrated unit. Additional oxygen (above normal needs) can either supercharge an engine to boost it's performance, or distort the air/fuel ratio to negatively affect performance, depending on how the additional oxygen is presented. Presumably, the same possibilities exist in the performance of the body's power plant.

Tex
:cowboy:

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Blueberry
Gentoo Penguin
Gentoo Penguin
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:15 pm

Post by Blueberry »

Drinking the oxygenated water and doing much better of late to the gut has been a pleasant surprise. It occurred to me though that this likely answers a long time mystery for me. Many years ago, when I was at my worst having lost around 40lbs at that point, another doctor signed me up for a lower GI exam. The prep work was the usual. I was to avoid nuts for 3 days prior, and drink only clear liquids the day before. That night I was to take the atomic laxative.

Well, I purchased a couple liters of ginger ale to drink as my clear liquid. I'm not a fan of carbonation though. It tends to upset my stomach. So I used a hand blender to stir up the ginger ale. To my great surprise I was 100% to the gut that afternoon! As I recall joking with the doctor, I needed to sign up for GI exams more often - at least the first part of the instructions, passing on the laxative part. I didn't need help with laxatives.

I tried for years to figure out why ginger ale, or a liquid diet could help. Never could figure what happened. Figured it was a fluke. Now I think I know. The help I got was likely due to the high speed blending of the ginger ale.

Not sure why it helps me for sure. Figure oxygen and gut bacteria makes the most sense. It reminds me of those survival TV shows where it is said the safe water to drink is often fast moving churning water. Stagnate water can be full of harmful bacteria.

I've read though Dr. Jerry Tennant's energy medicine book . He has other ideas on moving water's positive health effects. The structured water people present another theory.

What ever it is, I'm sticking with it.
User avatar
Gabes-Apg
Emperor Penguin
Emperor Penguin
Posts: 8332
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia

Post by Gabes-Apg »

Blueberry
one thing I have learnt since arriving in MC world, blind faith is fantastic, if something works stick with it!! dont go looking for the science to prove or disprove!
:cool:
Gabes Ryan

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Blueberry
Gentoo Penguin
Gentoo Penguin
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:15 pm

Post by Blueberry »

Gabbes,

So very true! Also too, I was blending water so much too that I ended up buying a "cool" vortex blending machine for the kitchen counter. It's a hit! Seems most that stop by comments on it and will have a glass of tornado water. It's kind of humorous in a way.
Post Reply

Return to “Main Message Board”