Hey guys!
Just wanted to pick anyone's brains out there for a different point of view. Many months before I got sick with CC I was wanting to make dietary changes to detoxify my system and feel better. My body was whispering many things to let me know whatever I was doing wasn't working. I had come across The Gerson Therapy created by Dr. Max Gerson and is now taught by his daughter Charlotte. It is a therapy mainly for cancer pt's. but as I was researching I found this system and its principles can be used for many chronic diseases. It is pretty fascinating! The way she describes the science behind our bodies own mechanisms to heal if we have the right tools (enzymes, hormones, organ systems) etc. Long story long (check this stuff out by the way if you haven't) as my own gut is healing and I actually have the brain and energy to think again. I am wondering Paleo or Gerson method. I keep coming back to her principles. They seem to make more sense to me. Now don't get me wrong. Her therapy is extremely intensive when meant for someone with terminal cancer. But I think a modified version of her therapy and its main principles could work wonders. I was just starting to do some of these changes when I got sick. IMO I had already had a leak in the system and had released a lot of toxicity and the uptake was too quick or I got my answer to what was actually wrong a lot quicker. I did not continue the therapy out of fear and confusion which led me to this wonderfully helpful lifesaving family. Thanks for letting me rant. This is always a good place to get fresh ideas.....Tex :) Excellent new book btw. On a side note... tried the SAM-e NO GOOD :)
The Gerson Therapy
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
The Gerson Therapy
Vanessa
Hi Vanessa,
I am a firm believer that the way to prevent cancer, and/or enhance any treatment of existing cancer, and to optimize our long-term health, is by following a diet that minimizes inflammation in the body, keeping our vitamin D level well up in the sufficient range, and addressing any other actual (or at least likely) vitamin of mineral insufficiencies. I am not a supporter of treatment regimens that call for coffee enemas (or other chemically-induced bowel purging), done just for the sake of "cleansing" the body. It's very easy to believe that when we are sick, it's because of a buildup of toxic elements in our body.
Unfortunately, while there may be some truth to that (true, most of us probably do carry around minor toxic residues sequestered in various places in our body), the fact of the matter is that toxin buildup is almost always not the actual cause of our illness. But the existence of the possibility of toxic residues in the body, causes many people to worry unnecessarily, and this opens the door for opportunists anxious to fan those flames, and then meet the perceived need by selling whatever the market will bear. There is a lot of money to be made by selling treatment programs aimed at convincing people that their body needs to be "cleansed" of all the toxic chemicals that have been building up for years. And while some of those "cleansing" programs might remove minor amounts of such toxins (if they are actually present), most of them are not likely to be anywhere near as effective as the ambitious advertising claims made for them. But the harsh reality is that for most of us, they are totally unnecessary, and they will not benefit our long-term health any more than a good placebo.
Some of the "cleansing" protocols that I have heard about involve very risky methods. "Cleansing" of the intestines is not to be taken lightly. Are you aware that the cleanout process required prior to colonoscopy exams has been documented to actually cause MC (in a certain percentage of patients where MC did not exist prior to the treatment)? If a medically-approved protocol can create enough inflammation to trigger MC, imagine what some of the non-approved techniques may do. The fact of the matter is that bowel "cleansing" promotes an inflammatory response in order purge the contents of the bowels. So in the real world, these "cleansing" programs cause the very problem that they are promoted to prevent — inflammation. Whether or not this inflammation has only a temporary effect, or a life-altering effect, probably depends on our genes, and various environmental stresses that may be present at the time.
Anyway, my point is, please consider all the details (and especially the risk/reward ratio) before making a decision. And remember that this is just my opinion, FWIW (and it might be worth nothing).
Good luck with this, whatever you decide to do, and please keep us posted.
And thank you for the kind words about the book.
Tex
I am a firm believer that the way to prevent cancer, and/or enhance any treatment of existing cancer, and to optimize our long-term health, is by following a diet that minimizes inflammation in the body, keeping our vitamin D level well up in the sufficient range, and addressing any other actual (or at least likely) vitamin of mineral insufficiencies. I am not a supporter of treatment regimens that call for coffee enemas (or other chemically-induced bowel purging), done just for the sake of "cleansing" the body. It's very easy to believe that when we are sick, it's because of a buildup of toxic elements in our body.
Unfortunately, while there may be some truth to that (true, most of us probably do carry around minor toxic residues sequestered in various places in our body), the fact of the matter is that toxin buildup is almost always not the actual cause of our illness. But the existence of the possibility of toxic residues in the body, causes many people to worry unnecessarily, and this opens the door for opportunists anxious to fan those flames, and then meet the perceived need by selling whatever the market will bear. There is a lot of money to be made by selling treatment programs aimed at convincing people that their body needs to be "cleansed" of all the toxic chemicals that have been building up for years. And while some of those "cleansing" programs might remove minor amounts of such toxins (if they are actually present), most of them are not likely to be anywhere near as effective as the ambitious advertising claims made for them. But the harsh reality is that for most of us, they are totally unnecessary, and they will not benefit our long-term health any more than a good placebo.
Some of the "cleansing" protocols that I have heard about involve very risky methods. "Cleansing" of the intestines is not to be taken lightly. Are you aware that the cleanout process required prior to colonoscopy exams has been documented to actually cause MC (in a certain percentage of patients where MC did not exist prior to the treatment)? If a medically-approved protocol can create enough inflammation to trigger MC, imagine what some of the non-approved techniques may do. The fact of the matter is that bowel "cleansing" promotes an inflammatory response in order purge the contents of the bowels. So in the real world, these "cleansing" programs cause the very problem that they are promoted to prevent — inflammation. Whether or not this inflammation has only a temporary effect, or a life-altering effect, probably depends on our genes, and various environmental stresses that may be present at the time.
I obviously have no way of knowing what actually triggered your MC, but if I had been in that situation (just getting started with a treatment program labeled as "risky" by the mainstream medical community) when I started getting sick, I would use extreme caution in considering possibly restarting such a program. The reality is, the track record for members here who have followed such programs has been almost totally unproductive at best, and resulted in a relapse of MC symptoms at worst, because of various treatment requirements/recommendations.Vanessa wrote:I was just starting to do some of these changes when I got sick.
Anyway, my point is, please consider all the details (and especially the risk/reward ratio) before making a decision. And remember that this is just my opinion, FWIW (and it might be worth nothing).
Good luck with this, whatever you decide to do, and please keep us posted.And thank you for the kind words about the book.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Vanessa,
In line with Tex's comments, clearing toxins is only one element to wellness, the main part about clearing toxins is that it needs quite a bit of individual research and science before proceeding.
In my case, the pyrrole had caused a build up of copper, firstly we corrected deficiencies such as magnesium, zinc etc, reduced inflammation, improved gut health before we started, 3 months later we then started high doses of 3 other supplements to clear the copper.
Recently Another PP member was deficient in copper and this was causing serious issues with clotting. So a completely different approach is taken.
It is important to work with a practitioner, get some tests that will show what is the situation with your body, your conditions/symptoms etc. fix any deficiencies, support gut healing etc. and go the approach that will work for you.
As i was not working, I went the hard and fast approach to clearing the copper. I would not recommend that to anyone who is working.
Re the SAM-e, if you have deficiencies and methylation issues, SAM-e will not work so well.
Why were you keen to use the Sam-e??
I would suggest taking Vit D3, use mag spray, zinc, Vit C, active forms of B6 & B12, or good quality B complex, follow a low inflammation gut healing eating plan.
Do this for 6 months or more and then see what symptoms/issues you still have and tweak things from there.
Rather than follow a strict guideline like Palao or gerson, most here have great success doing modified versions of eating plans, working with the ingredients that settle best for them.
Hope this helps.
In line with Tex's comments, clearing toxins is only one element to wellness, the main part about clearing toxins is that it needs quite a bit of individual research and science before proceeding.
In my case, the pyrrole had caused a build up of copper, firstly we corrected deficiencies such as magnesium, zinc etc, reduced inflammation, improved gut health before we started, 3 months later we then started high doses of 3 other supplements to clear the copper.
Recently Another PP member was deficient in copper and this was causing serious issues with clotting. So a completely different approach is taken.
It is important to work with a practitioner, get some tests that will show what is the situation with your body, your conditions/symptoms etc. fix any deficiencies, support gut healing etc. and go the approach that will work for you.
As i was not working, I went the hard and fast approach to clearing the copper. I would not recommend that to anyone who is working.
Re the SAM-e, if you have deficiencies and methylation issues, SAM-e will not work so well.
Why were you keen to use the Sam-e??
I would suggest taking Vit D3, use mag spray, zinc, Vit C, active forms of B6 & B12, or good quality B complex, follow a low inflammation gut healing eating plan.
Do this for 6 months or more and then see what symptoms/issues you still have and tweak things from there.
Rather than follow a strict guideline like Palao or gerson, most here have great success doing modified versions of eating plans, working with the ingredients that settle best for them.
Hope this helps.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Just as there is no one-size-fits-all treatment for MC, there is no one-size-fits-all treatment to remedy imbalances, deficiencies, toxic buildups, or whatever. Each of us is different, and each of us has different requirements for restoring and/or optimizing our health. None of us is the equivalent of a Chevy or Ford. Because of our unique genetics, we are all customized machines with unique requirements for optimum operation. 
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hey Gabes,
I did want to pick your brain a little bit....or a lot a bit. I have been under a practitioners care for a couple of years regarding nutrition. With the help of you guys and this naturopath I have gotten well without meds..... Quite expensive as you know. Anyway I have had much testing done showing I was deficient in vit k and my ferritin is 9. ...so my current regimen is
Vit k/D-200mcgs/10,000 Ius My vitD is 57 at this dose
Blood builder for iron
Methylated forms of vit B complex and folic acid( I don't have problems with methylation)
Vit c
Mag spray and oral 200mg
Omega 3's
Then the last test I've had done recently was a comprehensive stool analysis by Doctors Data. They test on a scale from +1 to +4. +4 being more organisms.
It showed I had abnormally low levels of sIgA levels.
An overgrowth of 3 different Candida's microscopically at +1
Many commensal or imbalanced floras all at +1 (most concerning is klebsiella)
Beneficial flora lactobacillus at +1 and enterococcus +2..all others at +3
No inflammation measured! :)
Anyway the script is 10 days no sugar (meat, green and red veg, fat and nuts and seeds)
Then 45-60 days of candida diet.
Supplements include a lot of two different kinds of metagenics probiotics....I know what Tex thinks of those.
Candibactin BR which has oregano
Caprylic acid
Grapefruit seed extract
The SAM-e I tried at the suggestion of my acupuncturist. My dad just had a major stroke. The stress is mounting. I work as a respiratory therapist 12 hr shifts at the hospital and then I take care of dad at the hospital on off times. That supplement made me feel like I was on cheap speed....BAD!
I just wanted Dr. Gabes or any others opinion. I obviously have to wait until the dust settles a bit to start any protocol this involved which is basically paleo. Maybe after the holidays. Of course I can start reducing sugar now:( my last vice. The naturopath looked at this report and said no wonder you were diagnosed with MC. Like I can get rid of it if I follow this to the letter. Afraid of all of the fiber with just nuts and veg although I can handle more and more of those since my gut has healed. I'm scared this will spark a flare but I have to try.
A side note on the gerson protocol. The coffee enemas do not act as a colon flush. That is a high colonic which they do not want. The idea is that all of the beneficial juices start working by releasing toxins into the tissues which need to be released by the liver via the bile ducts. The caffeine opens these ducts for release. Since the coffee doesn't reach past the sigmoid colon it is suggested there is little chance of messing up good flora. Of course everyone is different. Enemas have been around for centuries and used for various ailments. Of course common sense comes into play here. Who would do an enema in a full flare? Someone with a PhD in dumbassery:)
Thanks again guys
I did want to pick your brain a little bit....or a lot a bit. I have been under a practitioners care for a couple of years regarding nutrition. With the help of you guys and this naturopath I have gotten well without meds..... Quite expensive as you know. Anyway I have had much testing done showing I was deficient in vit k and my ferritin is 9. ...so my current regimen is
Vit k/D-200mcgs/10,000 Ius My vitD is 57 at this dose
Blood builder for iron
Methylated forms of vit B complex and folic acid( I don't have problems with methylation)
Vit c
Mag spray and oral 200mg
Omega 3's
Then the last test I've had done recently was a comprehensive stool analysis by Doctors Data. They test on a scale from +1 to +4. +4 being more organisms.
It showed I had abnormally low levels of sIgA levels.
An overgrowth of 3 different Candida's microscopically at +1
Many commensal or imbalanced floras all at +1 (most concerning is klebsiella)
Beneficial flora lactobacillus at +1 and enterococcus +2..all others at +3
No inflammation measured! :)
Anyway the script is 10 days no sugar (meat, green and red veg, fat and nuts and seeds)
Then 45-60 days of candida diet.
Supplements include a lot of two different kinds of metagenics probiotics....I know what Tex thinks of those.
Candibactin BR which has oregano
Caprylic acid
Grapefruit seed extract
The SAM-e I tried at the suggestion of my acupuncturist. My dad just had a major stroke. The stress is mounting. I work as a respiratory therapist 12 hr shifts at the hospital and then I take care of dad at the hospital on off times. That supplement made me feel like I was on cheap speed....BAD!
I just wanted Dr. Gabes or any others opinion. I obviously have to wait until the dust settles a bit to start any protocol this involved which is basically paleo. Maybe after the holidays. Of course I can start reducing sugar now:( my last vice. The naturopath looked at this report and said no wonder you were diagnosed with MC. Like I can get rid of it if I follow this to the letter. Afraid of all of the fiber with just nuts and veg although I can handle more and more of those since my gut has healed. I'm scared this will spark a flare but I have to try.
A side note on the gerson protocol. The coffee enemas do not act as a colon flush. That is a high colonic which they do not want. The idea is that all of the beneficial juices start working by releasing toxins into the tissues which need to be released by the liver via the bile ducts. The caffeine opens these ducts for release. Since the coffee doesn't reach past the sigmoid colon it is suggested there is little chance of messing up good flora. Of course everyone is different. Enemas have been around for centuries and used for various ailments. Of course common sense comes into play here. Who would do an enema in a full flare? Someone with a PhD in dumbassery:)
Thanks again guys
Vanessa
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Definately not Dr Gabes... I am no where in the calibre of other knowledgeable people in this group!
Vit k/D-200mcgs/10,000 Ius My vitD is 57 at this dose
Blood builder for iron
Methylated forms of vit B complex and folic acid( I don't have problems with methylation)
Vit c
Mag spray and oral 200mg
Omega 3's
How much Vit C are you taking?
high doses of Vit C can help fix Candida and also help with Histamine Inflammation, help adrenals and immune system.
Mag spray and oral 200mg would mean you are having 400mg to 500mg per day. This is just on RDA requirements. You would need more if you want to correct deficiency.
again the magnesium will help histamine inflammation, improve cell health, help clear toxins
without testing /reviewing all symptoms (even the niggly ones) it would be hard to know other best options.
Metagenics products are good quality, that doesnt necessarily mean they will work for each individual.
in the early days they were too strong and/or had too many ingredients for me.
Thus far I have not been able to tolerate any pro-biotics. I have tried many types in the past 5 years at various times, single strain etc.
I did SB Boullardi earlier this year and it worked well for me.
If you are under increased family/emotional stress it may not be the right time to do the Candida protocol.
pick and chose your moments to embrace these types of things.
One thing I noticed with things like Candida /Sibo is that it is a bit like MC, what works for one, may not work another.
Zizzle linked me with 'The Gut Health Protocol' on facebook there are some interesting discussions /suggestions.
If i was in your situation, I would focus on supporting your adrenals / immune system while there are a few stressful things going on.
do some steps towards helping the candida without causing total chaos for now.
and maybe do some more research about how to approach the Candida to make sure you go with an approach that will suit you.
Vit k/D-200mcgs/10,000 Ius My vitD is 57 at this dose
Blood builder for iron
Methylated forms of vit B complex and folic acid( I don't have problems with methylation)
Vit c
Mag spray and oral 200mg
Omega 3's
How much Vit C are you taking?
high doses of Vit C can help fix Candida and also help with Histamine Inflammation, help adrenals and immune system.
Mag spray and oral 200mg would mean you are having 400mg to 500mg per day. This is just on RDA requirements. You would need more if you want to correct deficiency.
again the magnesium will help histamine inflammation, improve cell health, help clear toxins
without testing /reviewing all symptoms (even the niggly ones) it would be hard to know other best options.
Metagenics products are good quality, that doesnt necessarily mean they will work for each individual.
in the early days they were too strong and/or had too many ingredients for me.
Thus far I have not been able to tolerate any pro-biotics. I have tried many types in the past 5 years at various times, single strain etc.
I did SB Boullardi earlier this year and it worked well for me.
If you are under increased family/emotional stress it may not be the right time to do the Candida protocol.
pick and chose your moments to embrace these types of things.
One thing I noticed with things like Candida /Sibo is that it is a bit like MC, what works for one, may not work another.
Zizzle linked me with 'The Gut Health Protocol' on facebook there are some interesting discussions /suggestions.
If i was in your situation, I would focus on supporting your adrenals / immune system while there are a few stressful things going on.
do some steps towards helping the candida without causing total chaos for now.
and maybe do some more research about how to approach the Candida to make sure you go with an approach that will suit you.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
a good mantra is.. progress not perfection..
there is no quick way to fix these issues. It has taken me 4 years to narrow down the root causes, and 8 months to fix deficiencies and start fixing these issues...
if you can increase the Vit C without causing D it will help...
there is no quick way to fix these issues. It has taken me 4 years to narrow down the root causes, and 8 months to fix deficiencies and start fixing these issues...
if you can increase the Vit C without causing D it will help...
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Gabes- I like that "Progress, not perfection".
Vanessa- I hope that things calm down and you are able to find what works well for you. I have been impatient at times in my journey so far, and I have learned that it really pays to take it slowly. I have also learned to try and absorb as much as I can of the wisdom born of experience from the very wise members of this forum.
Meg
Vanessa- I hope that things calm down and you are able to find what works well for you. I have been impatient at times in my journey so far, and I have learned that it really pays to take it slowly. I have also learned to try and absorb as much as I can of the wisdom born of experience from the very wise members of this forum.
Meg
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace; the soul that knows it not, knows no release from little things. - Amelia Earhart