Hierarchies in the immune system?

[Greengoddess]

This may be Strange question but is there a reason why I never get 'normal' infections like colds, influenza etc? I don't think this is a good thing. Maybe we have some kind of missile defense system in there? This also makes others think there can't possibly be anything wrong!

[tex]

Hi,

I noticed the same thing back when I was still recovering. I didn't get colds and other viruses, and my pollen allergies temporarily disappeared. And many others here have noticed similar evidence of this immune system characteristic. The medical community seems to be completely oblivious of this phenomenon, however.

That's why I included an entire chapter (chapter 10) in the book on Microscopic Colitis, that discusses this issue. The chapter is called "An Immune System Quirk", and the subheading at the beginning of the chapter says, "Our immune system may have a programmed hierarchy that determines its focus".

I'm guessing that you don't have a copy of the book. If you would like to have a copy of chapter 10 that you can read on your computer, I would be happy to send you an email with an attached copy of a PDF file that you can read with Adobe Reader, or any other PDF reader. Just let me know if you want me to send it.

Tex

[Greengoddess]

Actually I do have a copy.i first read it in the middle of a flare in a kind of emergency and have explored it since in calmer times. Must have missed that bit. Would have ended up in the ED without it.
Looking forward to getting a cold then....

[Lilja]

This may be Strange question but is there a reason why I never get 'normal' infections like colds, influenza etc? I don't think this is a good thing. Maybe we have some kind of missile defense system in there? This also makes others think there can't possibly be anything wrong!

Greengoddess,

I have it the exact same way. I haven't had influenza or a cold since 1984, but back then I was really sick with Epstein Barr Virus (or "the kiss disease", as we call it). I haven't had any vaccines (apart from the mandatory ones you have during childhood).

I can walk and live among the sickest people, and I never get sick. I think it is a bit alarming.

Is this what what they call an "overactive immune system"?

Neither do I get a tan, no matter how long I sit in the sun. I don't even get a sunburn.

But that is a digression

Lilja

[tex]

Lilja,

The inability to tan or burn with sun exposure is extremely unusual. I'm just thinking out loud here, but I have a hunch that your inability to tan or burn from sun exposure may be related to pernicious anemia. It is known that pernicious anemia is associated with vitiligo (but no one knows why it is associated). As you are probably aware, vitiligo is a skin pigmentation disorder in which melanocytes (the cells that make skin pigment) are destroyed. Vitiligo is an autoimmune disease, and it results in random patches of skin at various locations on the body that are pure white, because they have no pigmentation.

This is strictly speculation, with no research to back it up, but I'm wondering if severe cases of pernicious anemia might be capable of causing melanocytes to malfunction. IOW, they might not necessarily be destroyed, instead they might be prevented from functioning normally and therefore they might be unable to change the color of the skin when exposed to the sun.

Tex

[Blueberry]

I know for me, I about all but stopped developing colds once I improved my diet and began taking vitamin D. Over the holidays I had another experience with that, not developing a cold while many others around me did. We had a special two week holiday family gathering, and on the first day sadly a nasty flu bug began making its way through the family. As is typically the case the flu didn't bother me. My father, who doesn't have a GI condition, eats similar to me and also takes vitamin D. He mentioned to me being happy to not develop the flu.

I don't seem to sunburn, or burn nearly as badly as I used to also. I remember Dr. Cannell of the Vitamin D Council on his blog has written about many noticing that once one begins supplementing with vitamin D that he/she all but stops sunburning. He had a theory on why that was but don't remember what he said. I still tan, but not as easily/ darkly as I used too also.

[Lilja]

Lilja,

The inability to tan or burn with sun exposure is extremely unusual. I'm just thinking out loud here, but I have a hunch that your inability to tan or burn from sun exposure may be related to pernicious anemia. It is known that pernicious anemia is associated with vitiligo (but no one knows why it is associated). As you are probably aware, vitiligo is a skin pigmentation disorder in which melanocytes (the cells that make skin pigment) are destroyed. Vitiligo is an autoimmune disease, and it results in random patches of skin at various locations on the body that are pure white, because they have no pigmentation.

This is strictly speculation, with no research to back it up, but I'm wondering if severe cases of pernicious anemia might be capable of causing melanocytes to malfunction. IOW, they might not necessarily be destroyed, instead they might be prevented from functioning normally and therefore they might be unable to change the color of the skin when exposed to the sun.

Tex

Thank you, Tex.

I will make an appointment with my GP as soon as I have stopped taking Entocort (end April/beginning of May).

I have read about the symptoms of PA. Diarrhea, leg cramps and low blood pressure were among them. Leg and muscle cramps were due to the lack of potassium, important in the electrolyte balance. I have a lot of pains and cramps in my legs, even now with the vitamin B-plan you gave me, (but not as bad as they used to be), and I have always had very low blood pressure (today it is 90/65).

But, in order to have a right answer as to the suspicion of pernicious anemia, I would have to stop all vitamin B supplements, wouldn't I? For how long should I stop taking both the B-vitamins, magnesium, vit C, vit D and cod liver oil prior to the blood tests?

I guess my GP will drop his jaws when I tell him I'm afraid of having PA, and I feel that the proof burden is mine. Doctors in my country don't order the blood tests that patients want them to, if they are not convinced that it is needed (due to our free health care system, they want to make sure that they don't abuse the system and spend too much money on "unnecessary tests").

I appreciate all your help, Tex.

Lilja

[tex]

But, in order to have a right answer as to the suspicion of pernicious anemia, I would have to stop all vitamin B supplements, wouldn't I? For how long should I stop taking both the B-vitamins, magnesium, vit C, vit D and cod liver oil prior to the blood tests?

Those are good questions, and I don't have a good answer. Maybe Polly or someone who knows more about such things will see this and respond.

Bearcat, do you have an opinion on those questions?

Tex

[Patricia]

Hi Tex,

I noticed the same thing back when I was still recovering. I didn't get colds and other viruses, and my pollen allergies temporarily disappeared.

Do you get colds now? Was this only a temporary thing? Is it bad? I mean, it is quite nice not to succumb to every cold going around.

I already noticed last year (way before developing any GI symptoms) that I do not get colds anymore and thought that my immune system must have gotten stronger....

I did read your book but still don't really understand how the immune system's response to foods we eat pertains to colds or germs? Is the immune system in overdrive, just killing everything?? What about its ability to kill cancer cells? Is that enhanced as well?

Patricia

[Marcia K]

I don't get colds, either. I work in long term care and I am around co-workers who seem to be sick all of the time. My deep, dark secret is that I don't get the flu vaccine. They are really pushing it and I'm afraid one day it will be mandatory. The funny thing is the ones who got the vaccine are the ones who have had the flu....so much for that!

Marcia

[tex]

Do you get colds now? Was this only a temporary thing? Is it bad? I mean, it is quite nice not to succumb to every cold going around.

Yes, I'm no longer immune, so I do catch viruses that are going around, if I'm not careful. My allergies are also back. For years, I stopped reacting to pollen, but apparently after I did enough healing, my immune system returned to normal. I'm not sure exactly how many years I was free of all that stuff, but I'm guessing that about 3 or 4 years after I went into remission, I started noticing pollen allergies again, and an occasional cold.

I already noticed last year (way before developing any GI symptoms) that I do not get colds anymore and thought that my immune system must have gotten stronger....

I didn't even notice when my grace period started, but apparently it began about the time my symptoms began, or before. Several years passed (during which I spent a lot of time as sick as a dog) before one day it dawned on me that I no longer reacted to pollen and I hadn't had a cold in several years.

I did read your book but still don't really understand how the immune system's response to foods we eat pertains to colds or germs?

Neither do I. That's why I didn't discuss that in the book. The only possible explanation that I can visualize (now that I've learned more about the role that vitamin D plays in the performance of the immune system) is that when inflammation reaches such a high level in our digestive system, our blood carries a much higher level of the active form of vitamin D [1,25(OH)2D] than it normally would, and this possibly enhances (sort of supercharges) the performance of the immune system. This is why the inactive form of vitamin D [25(OH)D] becomes depleted during periods of inflammation.

And importantly, this is why a doctor who doesn't know how to properly test vitamin D levels, can make a grave mistake that will seriously jeopardize her or his patients' recovery. If they mistakenly order a test for 1,25(OH)2D, instead of 25(OH)D, the 1,25(OH)2D test result will virtually always come back very high, and the doctor will mistakenly conclude that the patient has more than enough vitamin D, when in fact, the patient may be deficient. Typically, when the level of the active form of vitamin D is high, the level of the inactive form will be low (because so much of it has been converted into the active form).

Is the immune system in overdrive, just killing everything??

That's the sixty-four dollar question, and I don't know the answer (no one does).

What about its ability to kill cancer cells? Is that enhanced as well?

No one knows the answer to that, either. I do know that cancer cells thrive by producing a special protein (or proteins) that protects them from destruction by the immune system. Such proteins are known as "inhibitors of apoptosis proteins" (IAPs). Research shows that vitamin D has the power to downregulate the production of at least one of those enzymes (known as survivin). Theoretically at least, that would tend to remove the protective shield that allows cancer cells to escape the immune system's detection, so that they would be marked for destruction.

So it's conceivable that when inflammation is high (during an MC flare), provided that plenty of vitamin D is available, the immune system's ability to attack cancer cells might be enhanced by virtue of elevated levels of active vitamin D in the blood suppressing the expression of survivin by cancer cells, and thereby making the cancer cells vulnerable to destruction by the immune system. Obviously this is all speculation at this point, and certainly no research group has ever explored the possibility that this might occur during an MC flare. But based on the research that I've seen, it certainly appears that this might be possible.

Tex

[Blueberry]

I don't get colds, either. I work in long term care and I am around co-workers who seem to be sick all of the time. My deep, dark secret is that I don't get the flu vaccine. They are really pushing it and I'm afraid one day it will be mandatory. The funny thing is the ones who got the vaccine are the ones who have had the flu....so much for that!

Marcia

That was a complaint in my family for our holiday reunion! Many had received the flu vaccination a few weeks earlier for the gathering, and then developed a nasty flu bug!

I remember reading too that a group of researchers feel the flu vaccine isn't effective for a majority of people.

"Flu vaccination ‘over-promoted’ and ‘over-hyped’ according to researchers"

http://www.drbriffa.com/2012/11/22/flu- ... searchers/

I'll stick with what has worked for me, improved diet and taking vitamin D. I've been happy with that.

[Patricia]

Fascinating! Thanks, Tex!!!

After reading what you wrote about the different forms of vitamin D, I wondered which one my PCP had measured in November. So I go online, log in, check it. It is the right form of vitamin D. Good! Phew! But then, I saw that the calcium was elevated and marked in red (10.3). Thinking that vitamin D and calcium are interacting with each other, but I couldn't quite remember the details, I look that up. Only to find out that if I am very vitamin D deficient, the calcium should never be high. I am 45 and in people over 40 it should never be above 10 and that this is usually a sign of a parathyroid tumor. Just what I needed to make my day!! And under symptoms it had a lot of symptoms that are similar or the same as with MC, but it also had pain in the bones. And recently I was wondering why the bones in my arms and wrists hurt.
So now I called the PCP, talked to the nurse, and asked that they check the PTH. She will discuss it with the doctor and call me back. The nurse said it's only so slightly elevated. But really, it shouldn't be. Especially not if I am that vitamin D deficient. I'll be curious to hear back. I have an appointment with my PCP at the very beginning of March. But I hope they can just do the PTH blood test now and check it out. I mean really, it won't hurt!

Always something......

Love, Patricia

[CathyMe.]

I am another one that never gets sick. I work in a school and am around sick children all day long and just figured I had built up immunities?

[tex]

Patricia,

Hmmmmmm. I was thinking that your elevated serum calcium level might be due to vitamin D working too well. But aching bones is a puzzling symptom, because aching bones is typically a symptom of vitamin D deficiency, not too much vitamin D. So I suppose that hyperparathyroidism might be a possibility that should be ruled out. When my serum calcium level was up (last October, when the kidney stone problem showed up), I had a parathyroid test done, but the result was in the normal range.

What was your vitamin D test result? When vitamin D levels are very high (near or above the top of the "normal" range), calcium absorption can be so efficient that serum calcium levels increase. This is even more likely to happen if something is preventing the body from using the calcium to form new bone tissue. One of the essential ingredients for transporting calcium to where it is needed (in the bones) is vitamin K2. Some health authorities estimate that approximately 80 % of Americans may be vitamin K2 deficient. If vitamin K2 is deficient, calcium can build up in the blood.

Since vitamin D greatly enhances calcium absorption, then taking a vitamin D supplement makes it especially important that adequate K2 is available to prevent a buildup of calcium in the blood. Vitamin K2 also enhances blood clotting, which is another reason why it's beneficial for most people. However, if you happen to be taking a blood thinner (to reduce the risk of ischemic stroke or heart attack), then vitamin K2 would be contraindicated, because it would interfere with the action of most blood thinners.

The bottom line is, if your vitamin D level is in the upper part of the "normal" range, and your serum calcium level is increasing (or already elevated), then you may be deficient in vitamin K2. Here's a link to a reference that you might find helpful:

What You Need to Know About Vitamin K2, D and Calcium

One way to counter increasing serum calcium levels is to take vitamin A, because vitamin A interferes with the ability of vitamin D to enhance calcium absorption. But please be aware that if you use this approach, don't overdo it, because in the long run, excess vitamin A can be damaging to bone health (IOW, almost anything in excess can cause adverse effects). I'm just guessing, but I see no reason why vitamin A would not work to help suppress serum calcium levels even if hyperparathyroidism is the cause of the problem. But if it turns out that you do have hyperparathyroidism, then you would certainly want to discuss that with your doctor. The chances are high though, that your doctor has never considered using vitamin A to counter hyperparathyroidism, so she or he might be opposed to it, simply because of unfamiliarity.

I hope some of this is helpful.

Love,
Tex