To take supplements or not

[Jonas]

Many in the paleo community don't believe in supplements (because you disturb the natural balance), like the founder of the paleo diet Dr. Loren Cordain PH.D.

He wrote an article that you may have read
http://thepaleodiet.com/vitamin-nutriti ... ity-death/

Except for fish oil and vitamin D, supplementation is a total waste of your time and money.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... efits.aspx

One of the major benefits of getting your nutrients from a varied whole food diet is that you're far less likely to end up with too much of one nutrient at the expense of others.

Taking mega doses of vitamin D supplements without sufficient amounts of K2 can lead to vitamin D toxicity symptoms,

However, maintaining an appropriate calcium-to-magnesium ratio is important regardless. Research on the paleolithic or caveman diet has shown that the ratio of calcium to magnesium in the diet that our bodies evolved to eat is 1-to-1

So, all in all, anytime you're taking any of the following: magnesium, calcium, vitamin D3 or vitamin K2, you need to take all the others into consideration as well, since these all work synergistically with each other.

It raises some questions, how do we know if the supplements do more harm than good?

High doses of vitamin D3 is safe (if taken with K2). (It can not be harmful to be in the sun for 30min)
But how about large amounts of magnesium, if you don't take calcium, vitamin D3 or vitamin K2, is it really safe?
You people who take 800-1200 mg of magnesium per day, do you also calcium supplements?

And how about the other things I use like zinc, selenium, glutathione, vitamin c and b? Will it benefit me to take these supplements, or is it better to try to get them through nutritious diet? I do not know the answer.

[Polly]

Hi Jonas,

That is definitely a good question.

I would like to believe that we can get all we need from whole foods, but I am quite concerned about how foods are grown nowadays. Many don't have the same nutritional benefits they used to. However, until MC fully heals, we probably are not absorbing nutrients normally anyway. So taking a lot of supplements may be be a waste of money. Not to mention the fact that they may contain gluten, dairy, soy, or other no-nos that can prevent us from achieving remission. In general, we recommend here that it is best to take minimal supplements (but always vitamin D) until the gut fully heals.

Polly

[Lilja]

If we have problem absorbing nutrients, how do we know that it is the "right" nutrients we absorb?

Isn't the point of supplements to ensure that we get enough?

Lilia

[tex]

You people who take 800-1200 mg of magnesium per day, do you also calcium supplements?

I'm probably the only one here taking that much magnesium, and the reason I have to take so much is because I have a problem absorbing it due to the fact that my colon and part of my terminal ileum have been removed. In normal people, those areas are responsible for a high percentage of magnesium absorption.

I definitely don't take any calcium supplements, since too much calcium in the blood can be very dangerous, and magnesium enhances calcium absorption and utilization. Anyone who takes a magnesium supplement should not need any supplemental calcium, because magnesium supercharges our body's ability to absorb and use calcium. I do use almond milk on Chex GF cereals, and almond milk contains at least as much calcium as cow's milk. I don't use almond milk in order to get the calcium though. I would prefer that it didn't contain any added calcium, because I'm more concerned about getting too much calcium than getting too little. Research shows that most people in the world are deficient in magnesium. Virtually everyone in developed countries has more than enough calcium in their diet, but they don't absorb it because they are magnesium-deficient.

Of course like everything else, too much magnesium can also be dangerous if the kidneys are not functioning properly. Normally, virtually all supplements taken in excess (with the possible exception of calcium) will be safely purged from the body by the kidneys. But we all have our limits, and what may not be too much for someone, might be a problem for someone else, especially if they have compromised liver or kidney function.

But I certainly agree with Polly that if our digestive system is functioning normally, then we shouldn't need any supplements. The problem is that with MC, and the varying degree of malabsorption that it can cause, it can be difficult to determine whether or not we actually need a supplement, and if we do, how much we actually need. And as she points out, so many supplements contain traces of ingredients that can cause us to react, that as we take more supplements, our risk of having a reaction to one of them increases significantly. If we take a very large number of supplements, the odds become very high that one of them will cause problems. I don't know how supplements are regulated in Sweden, but in this country, labels are not required to accurately list all inactive ingredients, and many of them contain unlisted ingredients that we cannot tolerate. Some of them also contain ingredients that are cross-contaminated with ingredients that we cannot tolerate, and the manufacturers may not even aware of them, because their suppliers are unaware of the cross-contamination problem.

Tex

[tex]

If we have problem absorbing nutrients, how do we know that it is the "right" nutrients we absorb?

We don't know. And we don't know if we are deficient in certain nutrients unless we are able to test for them, or we are able to guess correctly based on symptoms.

Isn't the point of supplements to ensure that we get enough?

Theoretically, the correct use of supplements is to make up for known deficiencies in the diet, or known deficiencies due to disease, or known deficiencies due to other issues such as the surgical removal of certain organs. But some of us use a "shotgun" approach and we take supplements "just in case" we might be deficient, because we know that if we take more than we need, it probably won't cause any overdose problems.

Tex

[Polly]

It seems like, as time goes on, more is learned about potential overdose problems. Of course, too much vitamin C or magnesium can cause D in MCers. Other examples - calcium supplementation can cause cardiovascular problems in women. It can also lead to a higher incidence of glaucoma and macular degeneration (in older people taking more than 800 mg/day). Vitamin A excess can promote lung cancer in smokers/former smokers.

Polly

[dfpowell]

I have been monitoring my diet with an online nutrient analysis program, Cron-o-meter, and I supplement where I am coming up deficient. I also try to balance out my supplements.

[Lilja]

But some of us use a "shotgun" approach and we take supplements "just in case" we might be deficient, because we know that if we take more than we need, it probably won't cause any overdose problems.

Tex

I'm one of those who use supplement "just in case". Having had D for several years, I'm convinced that my body has been depleted of vital vitamins, minerals and salts.

And as long as we use water soluble supplements, if we take too much, we only risk having a very expensive urine

Lilia

[Gabes-Apg]

Jonas,
There is a book called magnesium miracle by dr Carolyn dean. She also has loads of free newsletters and articles on her web site.

The information in this book explained to me why,
a) I had a serious magnesium deficiency. And
b) based on my individual medical issues added with living and working environment etc I will probably always need high doses of magnesium..

If I drop the dosage to 500mg, symptoms start to return, so I listen to my body and do what works for me.
The only reliable testing for this type of thing is tissue/muscles testing. So listening to my body is my best guide.