Gabes - Thank you. I'll read the "sticky" thread on magnesium.
Paula
Numb toes...
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
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humbird753
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1014
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:44 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
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louis
Tex,
i understand. But would you say, the ratio (35mg b6, 3mg b9 and 2mg b12) is necessary to get the positive affect and that this ratio between the 3 is important.
Or would it maybe be enough to take 1mg of b9 and b12 per day, and 35mg of b6 every second day for example. So the chance of taking too much would be reduced and the intake of the three more even. Its just that your adviced ratio would not be matched then.
i understand. But would you say, the ratio (35mg b6, 3mg b9 and 2mg b12) is necessary to get the positive affect and that this ratio between the 3 is important.
Or would it maybe be enough to take 1mg of b9 and b12 per day, and 35mg of b6 every second day for example. So the chance of taking too much would be reduced and the intake of the three more even. Its just that your adviced ratio would not be matched then.
Louis,
I do not know how critical the ratio of those vitamins might be. That probably depends on the patient's issues that are being treated, and various other things. Doses for products that are FDA approved (including Metanx) have to be demonstrated by trials that they are effective, with no unacceptable risk of adverse effects to the patient. The dose substitution for Metanx that I listed is what I often use, and it is half of the maximum recommended dose listed on the Metanx label.
Tex
I do not know how critical the ratio of those vitamins might be. That probably depends on the patient's issues that are being treated, and various other things. Doses for products that are FDA approved (including Metanx) have to be demonstrated by trials that they are effective, with no unacceptable risk of adverse effects to the patient. The dose substitution for Metanx that I listed is what I often use, and it is half of the maximum recommended dose listed on the Metanx label.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Louis,
Since you live in Germany, wouldn't it be easier for you to order the active forms of B-vitamins that cannot be found in Germany, at a European site?
I use BigVits:
Jarrow: Methylcobalamin B-12, 1000 mcg
https://www.bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=126&bid=11
CountryLife: P-5-P Pyridoxal 5' Phosphate (B-6) 50 mg
https://www.bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=431&bid=3
Jarrow: Folate Methyl 400 mcg
https://www.bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=1402&bid=11
I take them in a certain ratio, recommended by Tex. After having taken them for 6 months I no longer have numb toes, the feeling of falling, tingling, neuropathic pains etc, and I don't intend to discontinue taking them.
I'm sure that all my above symptoms were due to malabsorption during inflamation, "starving" because I used a long time to find the right food for me, and also maybe due to an inherited lack of intrinsic factor (absorbtion of B12).
Lilia
Since you live in Germany, wouldn't it be easier for you to order the active forms of B-vitamins that cannot be found in Germany, at a European site?
I use BigVits:
Jarrow: Methylcobalamin B-12, 1000 mcg
https://www.bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=126&bid=11
CountryLife: P-5-P Pyridoxal 5' Phosphate (B-6) 50 mg
https://www.bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=431&bid=3
Jarrow: Folate Methyl 400 mcg
https://www.bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=1402&bid=11
I take them in a certain ratio, recommended by Tex. After having taken them for 6 months I no longer have numb toes, the feeling of falling, tingling, neuropathic pains etc, and I don't intend to discontinue taking them.
I'm sure that all my above symptoms were due to malabsorption during inflamation, "starving" because I used a long time to find the right food for me, and also maybe due to an inherited lack of intrinsic factor (absorbtion of B12).
Lilia
Collagenous Colitis diagnosis in 2010
Psoriasis in 1973, symptom free in 2014
GF, CF and SF free since April, 2013
Psoriasis in 1973, symptom free in 2014
GF, CF and SF free since April, 2013
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humbird753
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1014
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:44 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
I am wondering about vitamin B testing. As I said earlier, my last result was 863. Do they break that down for active and inactive B levels?
Paula
Paula
Paula
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
Paula,
That's a very good question. And while the reasons are rather complex, the answer is a simple "No, currently-used tests for serum B-12 levels do not distinguish between active and inactive forms of vitamin B-12." But remember that the cells of the body can only use the active form of B-12. So the blood test is of little practical value for someone who might have a problem converting the inactive form of B-12 into the active form, because the test results reflect the total amount of B-12 in the body, in all forms. And it also has questionable value when B-12 levels are declining, even though they might actually appear to be quite high (according to the test results). And the main problem of course is that virtually any doctor will look at results in the "normal" range as perfectly fine, when the reality is that the cells in the patient's body may be starved for B-12 in the active form. Here's why the test results are compromised:
Circulating vitamin B12 is predominately bound to two different proteins (haptocorrin and holotranscobalamin). The commonly available laboratory testing methods are simply unable to discriminate between the inactive form (haptocorrin-bound) and active form (holotranscobalamin-bound). Normally, approximately 80 % of circulating vitamin B12 is in the inactive form, and is carried by haptocorrin. If the intake of vitamin B-12 is insufficient in the long run, then circulating levels of haptocorrin slowly decline as a state of deficiency begins to develop. It can typically take 3-6 years for the level to decline to below the lower limit of the reference range. And of course when this is occurring, any deficiency in the active form of B-12 is masked by the more abundant supply of the inactive form. Because of that unfortunate arrangement, it is quite common for patients who have test results showing a "normal" B-12 level to actually have a deficiency of B-12 in their cells. Their doctor is happy because the B-12 test result shows a "normal" level, but the patient is actually suffering from a B-12 deficiency.
Vitamin B12 - “Active” B12 and plasma MMA
This is just one of many, many examples of blood tests that doctors hold in high esteem, but they are actually counterproductive for many patients.
Tex
That's a very good question. And while the reasons are rather complex, the answer is a simple "No, currently-used tests for serum B-12 levels do not distinguish between active and inactive forms of vitamin B-12." But remember that the cells of the body can only use the active form of B-12. So the blood test is of little practical value for someone who might have a problem converting the inactive form of B-12 into the active form, because the test results reflect the total amount of B-12 in the body, in all forms. And it also has questionable value when B-12 levels are declining, even though they might actually appear to be quite high (according to the test results). And the main problem of course is that virtually any doctor will look at results in the "normal" range as perfectly fine, when the reality is that the cells in the patient's body may be starved for B-12 in the active form. Here's why the test results are compromised:
Circulating vitamin B12 is predominately bound to two different proteins (haptocorrin and holotranscobalamin). The commonly available laboratory testing methods are simply unable to discriminate between the inactive form (haptocorrin-bound) and active form (holotranscobalamin-bound). Normally, approximately 80 % of circulating vitamin B12 is in the inactive form, and is carried by haptocorrin. If the intake of vitamin B-12 is insufficient in the long run, then circulating levels of haptocorrin slowly decline as a state of deficiency begins to develop. It can typically take 3-6 years for the level to decline to below the lower limit of the reference range. And of course when this is occurring, any deficiency in the active form of B-12 is masked by the more abundant supply of the inactive form. Because of that unfortunate arrangement, it is quite common for patients who have test results showing a "normal" B-12 level to actually have a deficiency of B-12 in their cells. Their doctor is happy because the B-12 test result shows a "normal" level, but the patient is actually suffering from a B-12 deficiency.
Vitamin B12 - “Active” B12 and plasma MMA
This is just one of many, many examples of blood tests that doctors hold in high esteem, but they are actually counterproductive for many patients.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Louis,
When I was struggling with endless severe brain fog and inability to math equations I went with the 1 pill metanx equivalent in the correct proportions.
I was age 52. After about 6 weeks the brain fog cleared and I could do math equations again. I stayed on the 1 pill metanx equivalent in correct proportions for about 8 weeks total.
I no longer seemed to need the large dose and was feeling jittery so I cut everything back by about 50%.
Now....several years later I am on small dose of each vitamin and not in the correct proportions and seem to be doing okay.
I suspect as I get older....like 70's and 80's I may need to step up my dosage in the correct proportion.
Just my experience.
Hope this gives some feedback.
Brandy
When I was struggling with endless severe brain fog and inability to math equations I went with the 1 pill metanx equivalent in the correct proportions.
I was age 52. After about 6 weeks the brain fog cleared and I could do math equations again. I stayed on the 1 pill metanx equivalent in correct proportions for about 8 weeks total.
I no longer seemed to need the large dose and was feeling jittery so I cut everything back by about 50%.
Now....several years later I am on small dose of each vitamin and not in the correct proportions and seem to be doing okay.
I suspect as I get older....like 70's and 80's I may need to step up my dosage in the correct proportion.
Just my experience.
Hope this gives some feedback.
Brandy
Connie,
Since Obamacare has gone into effect, my cost for Metanx has gone from less than $30 per month to the ridiculous levels that you mentioned. Talk about price gouging.
I find it hard to believe that the cost of production of those vitamins has anything to do with the cost of the product. Like most drugs these days, they're priced at whatever the market will bear, and the price now seems to be doubling every year.
Tex
Since Obamacare has gone into effect, my cost for Metanx has gone from less than $30 per month to the ridiculous levels that you mentioned. Talk about price gouging.
I find it hard to believe that the cost of production of those vitamins has anything to do with the cost of the product. Like most drugs these days, they're priced at whatever the market will bear, and the price now seems to be doubling every year.Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Paula,
I'm using LifeFlo from Vitacost and for every 4 sprays it says I should be getting 66.6mg elemental so I have been doing at least 16 sprays morning and sometimes nights so that averages around 266mg for just my morning sprays a day with that route, then I take get a 144mg dose from L-Threonate magnesium, and another 100mg dose from the Mag/calcium citrate liquid I found at Vitacost. I'm not sure how much more Magnesium I am getting from the 2000 Magtein in the L-Threonate I'm getting. I figure I can back the spray off a little and just go with the L-Threonate at some point perhaps but I'm getting in the neighborhood of 510 elemental Mag a day this way.
Erica
I'm using LifeFlo from Vitacost and for every 4 sprays it says I should be getting 66.6mg elemental so I have been doing at least 16 sprays morning and sometimes nights so that averages around 266mg for just my morning sprays a day with that route, then I take get a 144mg dose from L-Threonate magnesium, and another 100mg dose from the Mag/calcium citrate liquid I found at Vitacost. I'm not sure how much more Magnesium I am getting from the 2000 Magtein in the L-Threonate I'm getting. I figure I can back the spray off a little and just go with the L-Threonate at some point perhaps but I'm getting in the neighborhood of 510 elemental Mag a day this way.
Erica
To Succeed you have to Believe in something with such a passion that it becomes a Reality - Anita Roddick
Dx LC April 2012 had symptoms since Aug 2007
Dx LC April 2012 had symptoms since Aug 2007
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humbird753
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1014
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:44 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Erica - thank you for your recommendations. I appreciate hearing what others are doing to supplement. I know I'm not getting enough Magnesium right now. I've hesitated on taking any oral Magnesium supplement as it seemed to be the one thing that kept me from reaching remission. I thought I had read or heard somewhere that all magnesium supplements taken orally would eventually have a laxative effect. I am doing great since I stopped taking my mag supplement. But since I know I need to supplement it more and I know I am fine now, it wouldn't hurt to try it. If I have symptoms I can always stop taking it. I've read quite a few positive posts from you about the L-Threonate magnesium. It sounds like you're doing well. Congratulations on your great detective work. 
Paula
Paula
Paula
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
Hey guys,
I have been having numbness and tingling on both hands and feet (minimal), plus the outer parts of both thighs. Really bad in my left thigh. Feels like shards of ice trickling down my leg. On my runs I have to look down to see if I have spilled water on my leg. Seems to be positional, when I lay in bed it gets pretty bad and disturbs my sleep. I'll wake up with a thigh that feels like a cadaver. This is also where I have an old hip injury and have felt some funky lymph nodes around that area (pressing on nerves?) I was wondering if using the metanx version of B vitamins would be worth a try. I don't have MTHFR gene mutation and am not sure if that really matters. My concern is I am still slowly coming off of my anti anxiety medication and am not looking for any jitteriness
Also wondering if this is part of the detox process since my GABBA receptors are surely having to come back to life. I have been using Mag L-threonate with a lot of success plus mag lotion and foot soaks.
I was also wondering if fatigue is just part of this healing journey. It has been almost a year of this crushing fatigue that comes and goes. My bowels have been doing awesome for quite some time but the fatigue remains. I have checked ferritin, thyroid anti bodies and full panel, c-reactive level which was 1.6, vit D was 90 in January(backed off on my dose a little bit although just a month earlier it was 67 with no change in dosage). All normal. I can sleep 10 hours and wake up tired and drag all day. Is this just an MC thing until more healing gets under way.... Thanks and its good to see everyone making strides toward recovery!
I have been having numbness and tingling on both hands and feet (minimal), plus the outer parts of both thighs. Really bad in my left thigh. Feels like shards of ice trickling down my leg. On my runs I have to look down to see if I have spilled water on my leg. Seems to be positional, when I lay in bed it gets pretty bad and disturbs my sleep. I'll wake up with a thigh that feels like a cadaver. This is also where I have an old hip injury and have felt some funky lymph nodes around that area (pressing on nerves?) I was wondering if using the metanx version of B vitamins would be worth a try. I don't have MTHFR gene mutation and am not sure if that really matters. My concern is I am still slowly coming off of my anti anxiety medication and am not looking for any jitteriness
Also wondering if this is part of the detox process since my GABBA receptors are surely having to come back to life. I have been using Mag L-threonate with a lot of success plus mag lotion and foot soaks.I was also wondering if fatigue is just part of this healing journey. It has been almost a year of this crushing fatigue that comes and goes. My bowels have been doing awesome for quite some time but the fatigue remains. I have checked ferritin, thyroid anti bodies and full panel, c-reactive level which was 1.6, vit D was 90 in January(backed off on my dose a little bit although just a month earlier it was 67 with no change in dosage). All normal. I can sleep 10 hours and wake up tired and drag all day. Is this just an MC thing until more healing gets under way.... Thanks and its good to see everyone making strides toward recovery!
Vanessa
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Sheila
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 5:10 am
- Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl
Chiming in to tell Tex I took his advice and started taking his active B vitamin supplements and within a few days felt a lot better. I have methylation abnormalities and wasn't taking the B vitamins correctly resulting in almost extreme fatigue. I also added hemp CBD oil, 9 drops a day, and that has helped with arthritis pain and energy.
I take magnesium glycinate 3x a day and use magnesium cream daily. No D and fewer leg and toe cramps. As an aside, I discovered magnesium cream works great on chigger bites. Seems to stifle the little critters.
As always, this forum rocks.
Sheila W
I take magnesium glycinate 3x a day and use magnesium cream daily. No D and fewer leg and toe cramps. As an aside, I discovered magnesium cream works great on chigger bites. Seems to stifle the little critters.
As always, this forum rocks.
Sheila W
To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.
A person who never made a mistake never tried something new. Einstein
A person who never made a mistake never tried something new. Einstein