Flu shots may lose their effectiveness

[Deb]

http://www.businessinsider.com/annual-f ... ss-2015-11

researchers are concerned about what appears to be a troubling trend: Repeated vaccinations against the flu might make the newest shot less effective than the last, Helen Branswell reports at Stat.

When researchers followed 328 households during the 2010-2011 flu season, they found — much to their surprise — that the only people who really seemed to benefit from immunization were the ones who hadn't gotten a flu shot the year before. These "unexpected findings ... require further study," the researchers wrote, in 2013.

A larger and more robust study, published last year in Clinical Infectious Diseases, added more evidence that the 2013 study was onto something important. Researchers followed more than 7,000 people for eight yearly flu seasons, and they learned people got the strongest protection against the flu only when they were vaccinated for the current season — and at no other time during the previous five years.

Considering that some vaccines require multiple doses to be effective, as Branswell notes, "the fact that repeated vaccination against flu might diminish rather than enhance the vaccine's protection is perplexing." But it's possible that "antibodies produced in year one may neutralize some of the vaccine in year two's shot before it can trigger a full immune response," she writes.

Unfortunately, US scientists interested in getting to the bottom of all this are in a tough spot. They can't buck the CDC's recommendations and ask groups of people to forego the flu vaccine in certain years just so they can compare them to people who get it every year — it would be considered unethical, as Branswell points out. Fortunately, researchers in other countries without such ironclad recommendations are working on studying this problem in controlled environments.

[tex]

Deb,

Thanks for the information. When you think about what's happening there, it's actually pretty simple. If the vaccine works in the first place, then it should bestow some immunity to not only one specific virus, but at least partial protection against other viruses in the same family. And most of the viruses we're talking about are only slightly different forms of the same basic virus.

So it's not surprising that a second vaccination would not elicit a significant immunity response from the immune system, because it's already been there, done that, so it's nothing to get excited about.

So how retarded (to say nothing of predatory) is a system that continues to promote a procedure that isn't very effective, while stifling efforts to prove that it isn't effective, to that they can continue to do business as usual? One would think that sort of behavior would be illegal. Oh wait — it is illegal, for most folks. There are laws against selling "snake oil". But as we all know, the government is exempt from all the laws it passes.

It's a good thing that other countries are more open-minded.

Tex

[Blueberry]

Interesting take on the flu shot. Troubling too in that people now loose their jobs if they do not receive the flu jab in some circumstances, despite the lack of effectiveness and the rare side effects reported of narcolepsy and paralysis.

I know there has been a great deal of controversy with the flu shot over its effectiveness and plainly whether it even works or not. For example the Cochrane Collaboration research group found in their study a number of years ago that only 1 person out of 100 would benefit from the influenza vaccine. Dr. Briffa wrote about the findings in one of his blog posts ~

"Flu vaccination is largely ineffective, despite what your Government may have you believe"

http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/11/25/flu- ... u-believe/

My feeling about the shot is whether one gets it or not it's best to do what one can to boost their immune system during the flu and cold season. I've done well at avoiding the flu bug and colds by eating well, using a vitamin D light a few times a week, and simply keeping bungled up and warm. Fingers crossed the old formula keeps working this season! We are having a large family gathering over the holidays. The last gathering had almost everyone getting the flu shot before gathering together. And nearly everyone was ill with a nasty cold or flu during that time! I passed on the flu vaccine and was one of the lucky few to remain illness free.

[Lilja]

I'm against flu vaccination, unless old and very sick and weak people are recommended to take it.

I think that for healthy people, the more contagious diseases we undergo, the better our immune system will work.

But, maybe I'm just very oldfashioned

All my elderly neighbors take the flu vaccination when November comes, and guess what? They get very sick within 15 days after the shot. What do they get? Yes, a heavy flu.

Lilia

[tex]

I think that for healthy people, the more contagious diseases we undergo, the better our immune system will work.

But, maybe I'm just very oldfashioned

That's exactly how I feel, because that's exactly how the human immune system was designed to work. Doctors think that they can make it work better (apparently because they mistakenly think that they are smarter than the immune system), by trying to trick the immune system with vaccines, but it's not nice to fool mother nature, and when we try to fool mother nature, it usually comes back to bite us in the butt.

The bottom line is that some vaccines work quite well, and some of them suck. The flu jab generally sucks.

The ridiculous part of the flu vaccine promotion is that it's especially emphasized for senior citizens, but research shows that the older we get, the less likely our immune system is to respond properly to a vaccine, so the less likely that the vaccine will work correctly. And yet the medical industry continues to promote it for older people. So now they have the turbocharged version of the flu shot for people over the age of 65. (They're not about to give up on this crusade). Imagine how sick the "enhanced" vaccine will make some people.

All my elderly neighbors take the flu vaccination when November comes, and guess what? They get very sick within 15 days after the shot. What do they get? Yes, a heavy flu.

And the medical industry continues to insist that's impossible, because it's a killed virus. Well duh! All those people are just imagining that they are sick. What a coincidence. It's the same old medical excuse that we hear all to frequently — "it's all in your head"! The main problem is that the medical industry is not smart enough to figure out why those people get sick, and even if they were smart enough, they have no incentive to do so. They don't want to know why those people get sick, because that would throw a monkey wrench into their huge multi-billion dollar flu vaccine machine. Besides, no one wants to admit that they have been wrong for so many years.

Tex

[BearcatRx]

One thing I would like to point out, as a community practicing health professional, is that the flu vaccine is a GUESS. They guess which strains they believe will be most prominent and create a vaccine against it. The typical flu shot distributed is a combination of influenza A, influenza B and H1N1. However, this process is not perfect and as you can remember from last year, was only 30% effective. Also knowing the way a virus operates, it mutates. This, too, can cause decreased effectiveness. There is of course the live vaccine, or FluMist, which is commercially available. I come into contact with hundreds of sick patients on a daily basis, not getting the flu shot would irresponsible of me. To be afraid of getting a vaccine because of these off the wall side effects is silly in my opinion. As far as out of 100 patients, only 1 being prevented is not uncommon. This is what we call in the pharmacy field the NNT or number needed to treat. Every single medication has this. Getting the flu shot doesn't decrease your chance of getting the flu by 100%. It's still possible, but I'd much rather get a shot and have my chances reduced.

[HappyBird]

The research is very interesting Deb, thanks for sharing........

I'm pleased research is being done but not convinced about the result because of my own personal history of 'flu and 'flu vaccine. We had our 'flu jabs in August this year and will continue doing so.

My partner and myself have had 'flu injections every year for the past 25 or 27 years. We worked in a very busy solo medical practice and taking a day off for illness was not an option. We came in contact with eighty to a hundred patients a day on average, many were children.

In all the 25 or 27 years of having an annual 'flu vaccine neither of us has really had what I know as bad 'flu. We have had the odd cough and sore throat and 24hour tummy bugs during winter but not a 'flu. My partner has not missed a days work all the years we have been together.

My last serious bout of 'flu was In the early to mid seventies. I was struck down very rapidly with a pulse of 200+ and a roaring temperature. I was totally non campus mentis for days, saved only by my four year old son bringing me drinks of water in his tooth mug. I survived this, somehow. A few years later I began having 'flu injections every year and have never looked back.

[Lilja]

I love Tex' comment on this :-)

I don't even know what the flu vaccination consists of.

Does anyone know?

Lilia

[tex]

To be afraid of getting a vaccine because of these off the wall side effects is silly in my opinion.

I suppose that a few people are afraid of the vaccine, and well they should be if they happen to have mast cell issues, but I doubt that's a major consideration for most dissenters. Personally, I've never been afraid of any vaccine, and I've had many during my lifetime — but never a flu shot. And the reason is simple — I'm a pragmatist.

Lemme tell you a funny story. Back about 15–20 years ago I was in the corn processing business, and much of the corn we cleaned and bagged was wholesaled to feed stores in 50 lb bags, stacked 40 per pallet. Stacking those bags all day is some of the most labor-intensive work you can imagine. We used to hire mostly young guys in their 20s to do that type of work. They loved the way the work would put them in top shape, and they loved the muscles that they would develop after a while. But all of them would be "plumb tuckered out" at the end of the day, even though they alternated jobs every half-hour, doing much easier work half the time.

We had a pair of brothers who worked with us for a number of years. One was a rodeo bull rider, so obviously these guys weren't wimps. Every year they would go get their flu shots right on schedule. And right on schedule, 2 or 3 days later (and this happened every year), they would both be sick enough (with flu symptoms) that we would have to give them at least several days off to recover.

Now occasionally, the bull rider would show up on Monday morning looking as though the bull he drew in that weekend's rodeo had used him as a doormat, so he would need to take a few days off to recover. But that only happened once in a while. The flu shot, by contrast, knocked him out every blasted time. But obviously one has to be a glutton for punishment to be a bull rider in the first place, so I was never surprised when he announced each fall that they would be a bit late for work tomorrow, because it was time to get their flu shot.

I never bothered to point out to him that the flu shot couldn't make him sick, and his symptoms were all in his head, because he was a lot bigger'n me.

I'll grant you, most younger people seem to handle the flu jab relatively well, but as with almost everything, there are many people who are exceptions to that rule, even though the medical industry continues to choose to deny that it happens much more frequently than is reported in the literature. And the vaccine is worthless for us old farts, despite all the hype about how many lives it saves. Outside of the promotions, most of the reports I've seen show that it actually doesn't save any lives at all. For example:'

Does flu vaccination prevent death in the elderly? Apparently not

Tex

[tex]

I don't even know what the flu vaccination consists of.

Does anyone know?

I have no idea what's in the vaccine, but it appears that the promotions are created from 100 % government-approved hot air and unsubstantiated claims.

Tex

[HappyBird]

I love Tex' comment on this :-)

I don't even know what the flu vaccination consists of.

Does anyone know?

Lilia

Yes, my understanding is the vaccine consists of almost or nearly dead virus that they suspect will cause the next seasons influenza. Not a very scientific description, but it works for most. In scientific speak its an attenuated virus, this means reduced in virulence. The reasoning behind giving an attenuated virus is so your body can overcome the virus easily without making you ill and when you do come into contact with the same virus later your body has a head start on producing the necessary anti-bodies to attack that virus. People who have the 'flu vaccine generally are not as sick if they do get the virus as those people who have not had.

The reason some people complain or become I'll from an attenuated virus is because their immune systems are compromised or they have the flu vaccine too late in the season which amounts to a similar position of not having the vaccine.

We have our vaccine very early to give our bodies the best possible chance to make sufficient anti-bodies. We also are very careful about hand washing, touching publicly used surfaces, door handles etc. I keep anti-bacterial wipes in my handbag for times I need to wipe a surface down or clean my hands. I never sit in the GO's waiting room - I stand in the passage where I can see my number called. I believe all these measures help.

[HappyBird]

[ Outside of the promotions, most of the reports I've seen show that it actually doesn't save any lives at all. For example:'

Does flu vaccination prevent death in the elderly? Apparently notTex

You're an old cynic Tex........

The 'flu vaccine does save many millions of working people from taking days or weeks off sick or getting 'flu as badly as I did in the 1970's. All medical and nursing staff around the world are requested to take up the flu vaccine offer in order to keep hospitals and medical services running during the bad winter months.

I haven't a bad word to say about the flu vaccine, my partner would say the same. The secret is getting it as soon as its available, not in November when it's too late to be properly effective.

[tex]

You're an old cynic Tex........

I sure can't argue with that.

I can appreciate that you are so passionate about getting a flu shot, and there's certainly nothing wrong with getting the jab if you feel that it is actually helpful. But here's why you are not having problems with the flu these days:

Back in the 1950s, a major strain of the flu went around that made us mighty sick (bedridden for a couple of weeks). A similar strain made the rounds in the late 1960s, I believe. I caught that one also, but it wasn't as bad as the first one. Since then, if I catch the flu, it's a minor event, because most of the flu viruses going around these days evolved from those strains, and I certainly don't catch a virus very often. If I do happen to slip up and catch a flu virus my symptoms are no worse than the symptoms caused by the vaccine that were experienced by the young bull rider who used to work for me.

You developed resistance back in the 1970s (or possibly earlier).

The cure for the flu is to get the flu, so that your immune system can develop natural immunity or resistance to subsequent strains. The secret to avoiding the flu is to avoid people who have the flu. Obviously some people can't do that, so maybe they should have the vaccine. But I stay away from people who might be infected as much as possible when the flu is going around, and I wash my hands and keep my hands away from my face and my ears. (Did you know that many viruses infect us through our ears?) The point is, if I do all those things, I don't catch the flu, and even if I should catch it, it's just a minor inconvenience. So why should I get a vaccine that I don't need, and won't provide any benefits for me?

I have a hunch that the overuse of vaccines is very similar to the overuse of antibiotics — they corrupt our immune system in ways that we do not understand, and this has adverse consequences somewhere down the road. The fewer vaccinations we have, the less likely we are to have unpleasant immune system surprises later in life.

If the flu vaccine actually worked, there would be no need for you to be concerned about meticulously washing your hands, avoiding infected people, etc. Doctors use the same approach when treating many medical issues: "Take these pills and stop eating an unhealthy diet and get more exercise, and your high blood pressure, or high cholesterol, or high blood sugar, or whatever, will improve." And it usually does, because the diet changes and especially the exercise, correct the problem. But the doctor of course gives most of the credit for the improvement to the pills, and convinces the patient to continue taking them, when the improvement may be occurring in spite of the pills, not because of them.

Tex

[HappyBird]

I'm not going to argue with anything you have said, and yes, I do agree with some of what you say.

The problem is so little research has been done in this area so I reiterate my first comment here, I'm pleased research has been done and the research is still very interesting.

[BearcatRx]

If the flu vaccine actually worked, there would be no need for you to be concerned about meticulously washing your hands, avoiding infected people, etc. Doctors use the same approach when treating many medical issues: "Take these pills and stop eating an unhealthy diet and get more exercise, and your high blood pressure, or high cholesterol, or high blood sugar, or whatever, will improve." And it usually does, because the diet changes and especially the exercise, correct the problem. But the doctor of course gives most of the credit for the improvement to the pills, and convinces the patient to continue taking them, when the improvement may be occurring in spite of the pills, not because of them.

I wouldn't say doctors give all the credit to the pills. In fact, in pharmacy school we were taught that during treatment for conditions such as Type 2 Diabetes and hypertension, TLC or therapeutic lifestyle changes, are the first line therapy. Weight, diet, alcohol consumption, etc are all deemed "modifiable risk factors." These are things we can do on our own before drug therapy is required.