Mike and Tex and epigenetics

sunny · Post by **sunny** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:36 pm

Hey you two!! No, I had not heard of epigenetics....thanks so much for telling me about it.....thanx Tex for the link to the previous discussion. I am definitely going to pursue that one!!!!!!

Post by **tex** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:01 am

Hi Sunny,

You can probably order a DVD, or a transcript, of the PBS show that I mentioned, or if you check their program scheduling, they might rerun that show one of these days.

You, more than welcome,
Tex

sunny · Post by **sunny** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:46 pm

Great idea....I'll look into a transcript or re-running of the show.
Thanx

koksvik · Post by **koksvik** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:12 am

This quotation is from Wikipedia:

Caution
Due to the early stages of epigenetics as a science and to the sensationalism surrounding it, surgical oncologist David Gorski and geneticist Adam Rutherford caution against the drawing and proliferation of false and pseudoscientific conclusions from new age authors such as Deepak Chopra and Bruce Lipton.[138][13

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics#cite_note-138

Rolf

Vanessa · Post by **Vanessa** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:04 pm

Hmmm,

I wonder how real science explains why one persons grandfather can smoke all of his life, eat greasy foods, and live to 100 while another will keel over at 54?
You can drink all the "green" juice in the world and still be unhealthy if other life factors (epigenetics) are not satisfactory.

I think I'll choose to believe in Bruce Lipton. Can science tell me what the soul looks or smells like. I didn't think so.

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:06 pm

mmmmm and Wikipedia is such a valid source of fact to substantiate science....

Each person is entitled to their belief system, choose their values, and approach life in their own way..

Post by **tex** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:21 pm

Rolf wrote:surgical oncologist David Gorski and geneticist Adam Rutherford caution against the drawing and proliferation of false and pseudoscientific conclusions from new age authors such as Deepak Chopra and Bruce Lipton.[138][13

Those physicians fail to see the big picture. The fact that epigenetics is in its infancy is irrelevant to the issue, because all of medicine is still in it's infancy, for all practical purposes. Their comment is simply an example of intellectual snobbery, and it's extremely common in medicine. This is similar to all the official medical denials of the existence of non-celiac gluten sensitivity. They're upset because they don't have the skills needed to prove that non-celiac gluten sensitivity exists, so naturally they insist that it cannot exist. But really, all it proves is their lack of competence, because they cannot prove that it does not exist, either.

We all realize that the jury's still out on incomplete science, but that shouldn't keep us from taking advantage of any benefits that we might be able to glean from what has been revealed so far. Fortunately, rather than waiting for formal scientific proof, there will always be individuals who forge ahead and apply what they have already learned so that they (and everyone else) can learn much more rapidly by their experiences. Science will eventually catch up with them, and validate their discoveries years later.

Whether we realize it or not, "forging ahead of the science and learning as we go" is the premise behind this discussion and support board. Eventually medical science will get around to validating our treatment discoveries. And just as there will always be early adopters and innovators who produce the major breakthroughs in technology and in medicine, there will always be other individuals who are intimidated by (and angry at) those who forge ahead, while they themselves are hesitant to move out of their secure little shells of mediocrity. But that's why progress so often leaves individuals in the latter category far behind. Naysayers are a dime a dozen, .

Tex

koksvik · Post by **koksvik** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:43 am

When I got my first job as a young graduate engineer nearly 50 years ago, one of the old hands in the R&D department told me: "Don't fill your head with useless information, just know where to find it when you need it". So when I need information I turn to Wikipedia first. Sometimes they have answers and sometimes they don't, but they lead me to other sources of information that can complement what I know.

I have no interest in Epigenetics, but I know some members on this forum have, so for me it was natural to post the little snippet from Wikipedia to make you aware that there could be some false prophets around. To denigrate Wikipedia with a piece of cheap sarcasm is laughable. I believed this forum was after scientific factual truth, but I was wrong. Consider this:

"Since its creation in 2001, Wikipedia has grown rapidly into one of the largest reference websites, attracting 374 million unique visitors monthly as of September 2015.[1] There are more than 70,000 active contributors working on more than 35,000,000 articles in 290 languages. As of today, there are 5,036,162 articles in English. Every day, hundreds of thousands of visitors from around the world collectively make tens of thousands of edits and create thousands of new articles to augment the knowledge held by the Wikipedia encyclopedia".

With some difficulty I can only manage 11 of those languages, but that has given me an advantage in many situations. And the 70,000 authors exceed the number of MC sufferers in the US and Europe put together. On this site I get told time and time again that there are hundreds of MC sufferers who contribute their knowledge about MC and their experiences of the difficulties of living with it. From the posts I have read on this site and my own experience (although mild in comparison) I am under no illusion about the suffering that goes with it and I have sympathy with you all.

But do you really think you have a statistically significant number with ~1,000 people? What about the other 50,000 sufferers (in US and Europe) that are out there? And what about the rest of the world's millions? Where are they represented? Are they all suffering in silence or have they, against all odds, been miraculously cured? By attacking the integrity of research studies like you did in Chapter 4, References 1, 2 and 3 of your book on MC you are achieving very little except making yourselves a laughing stock. Statistically your ~1,000 are a mouse pee in the ocean and it is time you got some real statisticians on board.

Rolf

Post by **tex** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:47 am

Well Rolf,

You can't say that I didn't warn you about your habit of attacking others, to say nothing of your abuse of posting privileges in general — surely you've heard of terms of service. Yet here you are attacking Gabes again.

Obviously you didn't join this discussion board to seek help, nor to be helpful to others. You joined it to brag about your knowledge and your importance, and to belittle others here. None of that is beneficial for anyone who is trying to find solutions that will help them to control their symptoms, and get their life back.

I'm sorry, but I have a responsibility to make sure that terms of service are not flagrantly violated by members, in ways that adversely affect other members here. You leave me no choice but to terminate your service.

You really should seek professional help about that temper. It's not very becoming, nor is such stress beneficial for your long-term health. Stress is a killer. But of course there isn't any scientific proof of that, so there's no need for you to worry about it.

Tex

T · Post by T » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:25 am

Thank you TEX
His posts were very disturbing and that's one thing we don't need more stress.

Terry

Lilja · Post by **Lilja** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:19 pm

Hi Tex,

You made the right decision, and for some reason I feel a bit embarrased.

I hope you and the other board members don't think that this is typical Norwegian behavior.

Lilia

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:36 pm

Lilja wrote:Hi Tex,

You made the right decision, and for some reason I feel a bit embarrased.

I hope you and the other board members don't think that this is typical Norwegian behavior.

Lilia

Not to worry Lilia. It's typical arrogant obnoxious behavior. It just happens he is a Norwegian. He could just as easily have been any other nationality. The US has more than its fair share of obnoxious arrogant people. They just don't happen to be on this forum.

Jean

Post by **tex** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:47 pm

Lilia,

with Jean. Please don't be embarrassed, and please don't hold us responsible for the behavior of others in this country. We have no control over them. And besides, he moved to the Netherlands.

A little history:

Before we created this website, the founding members here were members of another MC website (the very first true MC discussion and support board). Disruptive members were never controlled on that website, and it eventually destroyed the site, because most people who have MC can't tolerate that kind chronic stress. At least not on the long run.

The disruptive members even created their own website and started their own discussion and support forum (consisting of people who agreed that diet has nothing to do with MC). But of course that site soon failed also, because no one there ever saw any significant improvement, so they eventually got tired of complaining to one another about the severity of their symptoms.

While we were setting up this site, I vowed that such behavior would not be tolerated here, because we're here to heal, not to argue about the scientific validity of our methods. The science (or lack of it) is irrelevant to our health and quality of life. If it works, we don't care if it flies in the face of science. And if it doesn't work, then we move on to try something else.

Tex

Lilja · Post by **Lilja** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:07 pm

Thank you, Jean and Tex.

Yes, probably arrogant and know-it-all people come in all colors and nationalities. But, on the path of finding a better health, we need sympathy and understanding from people around us, and also a little bit of humbleness.

Lilia

Erica P-G · Post by **Erica P-G** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:24 pm

Whew....that was touchy....
Along the lines of numbers of people here...there are lots of reasons.

1. they are lurking
2. they haven't found this site yet (that was me a few months back)
3. they don't have a computer (yes many people still don't have them)
4. finding those in need is like a needle in a haystack
5. perhaps they just want to live like they are...regardless if there is a very real way to feel better
6. I haven't figured it out yet....but I'm sure there are more reasons!!

There are too many people on this planet and trying to get to them all is going to take time, and spreading the word that diet works by our Drs.

Thank you Tex for attending to an uncomfortable situation for the All.