Do You Know (Or Believe That You Know) What Caused Your MC?
Moderators: Rosie, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Marcia,
That's sort of the way that mine started, except that I would recover and then relapse, over and over again. I finally decided that maybe it wasn't the flu after all.
Tex
That's sort of the way that mine started, except that I would recover and then relapse, over and over again. I finally decided that maybe it wasn't the flu after all.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I often wonder what caused my MC and also when it actually started.
At the end of 2011 I had some sort of virus and had temperatures over 40C for 4 days. I hadn't eaten for 4 days and was given antibiotics. Symptoms of bloating and D started within days.
Forward to the beginning of 2013 I had a colonoscopy (with biopsy) and no problem found. Diagnosed with IBS. Symptoms got worse in the latter part of 2014. Eventually had another colonoscopy (with biopsy) in December 2015. Result is MC lymphocytis colitis.
So now I wonder if this started with the virus or the antibiotics? And did I actually have MC when the first colonoscopy was done and it was missed or has the MC evolved from the antibiotics creating an imbalance in gut bacteria.
At the end of 2011 I had some sort of virus and had temperatures over 40C for 4 days. I hadn't eaten for 4 days and was given antibiotics. Symptoms of bloating and D started within days.
Forward to the beginning of 2013 I had a colonoscopy (with biopsy) and no problem found. Diagnosed with IBS. Symptoms got worse in the latter part of 2014. Eventually had another colonoscopy (with biopsy) in December 2015. Result is MC lymphocytis colitis.
So now I wonder if this started with the virus or the antibiotics? And did I actually have MC when the first colonoscopy was done and it was missed or has the MC evolved from the antibiotics creating an imbalance in gut bacteria.
Well, I would have to say that mine probably came from multiple reasons.
1. Most of my jobs for 25 years were high stress. A few years before diagnosis I went through several months of extreme family stress.
2. My connective tissue disease wasn't diagnosed until recently but was certainly affecting me for the last 20 years. For assorted joint and muscle issues I was prescribed heavy duty NSAID'S - some since taken off the market. One in particular caused non-stop diarrhea - the doctor said this was not a side effect - so I finally took myself off it. I took "reasonable doses" of OTC NSAID'S for a couple of decades.
3. Could be the Fosamax that I was on for 2 years.
4. Or the deficiency in Vit. D - diagnosed about 6 years ago.
5. Or, how about menopause? I have not heard that mentioned but for some of us it's a pretty extreme hormonal change in the body.
6. Last but not by any means least - I made large quantities of bread for both of my restaurants and for our local farmer's market (in my retirement years). Made in a big mixer, the flour spews all over the room and I have been living and working in flour dust for 4 decades. I know several local bakers who now are celiac. That would make an interesting study!
Chris
1. Most of my jobs for 25 years were high stress. A few years before diagnosis I went through several months of extreme family stress.
2. My connective tissue disease wasn't diagnosed until recently but was certainly affecting me for the last 20 years. For assorted joint and muscle issues I was prescribed heavy duty NSAID'S - some since taken off the market. One in particular caused non-stop diarrhea - the doctor said this was not a side effect - so I finally took myself off it. I took "reasonable doses" of OTC NSAID'S for a couple of decades.
3. Could be the Fosamax that I was on for 2 years.
4. Or the deficiency in Vit. D - diagnosed about 6 years ago.
5. Or, how about menopause? I have not heard that mentioned but for some of us it's a pretty extreme hormonal change in the body.
6. Last but not by any means least - I made large quantities of bread for both of my restaurants and for our local farmer's market (in my retirement years). Made in a big mixer, the flour spews all over the room and I have been living and working in flour dust for 4 decades. I know several local bakers who now are celiac. That would make an interesting study!
Chris
What about stress from surgery
It would appear that after my gall bladder removal back in 1998 all heck broke loose for me. I was soon to be anxious all the time, moody and my gyn tested me for tsh level which was normal but blood work for hormone levels proven me to be post menopausal at the age of 44! I was put on Premarin for two years but chose to wean off of this because of cancer scare. I had two benign Cysts in breast and estrogen and soy may have potential to exacerbate Ca cells. I began having gut problems and bouts of diarrhea and constipation.
I had a sigmoid oscopy and full colonoscopy and it was the latter that bx's proved my MC.
I am due for another but sure don't relish the thought of one!
I am thinking about having Enterolab testing done again and include more thorough one.
I had a sigmoid oscopy and full colonoscopy and it was the latter that bx's proved my MC.
I am due for another but sure don't relish the thought of one!
I am thinking about having Enterolab testing done again and include more thorough one.
I Am Someone Special
It is interesting that a couple of people (including Tex) noted that sugar may be a contributing factor to them developing MC. I haven't come across anyone listing sugar as a food intolerance yet. As I contemplate what my triggers are I am thinking that it may be beneficial to remove sugar altogether.
Linda,
All food intolerances that cause the immune system to produce antibodies involve a reaction to a specific protein in that food. Sugars are not known to cause immune system reactions except for one exception which involves an alpha gal allergy known as mammalian meat allergy. This unique allergy is precipitated by the bite of certain species of infected ticks, and you can find a discussion about it in the thread at the following link:
Tick Bites and Meat Allergies
But reactions to this unique allergy are only triggered by the alpha gal sugar, found only in mammalian meat. This allergy does not respond to sucrose, fructose, or any of the other more common sugars. And of course that's an allergy (based on an IgE antibody reaction), whereas the food sensitivities that affect us (with MC) are based on IgA antibodies. Other than mammalian meat allergy, all food sensitivities that we are related to MC are based on reactions to certain proteins.
But that doesn't mean that sugars cannot be a problem for us. Research shows that certain "foods" such as alcohol and sugar, when used in excessive amounts can cause leaky gut. And leaky gut causes food sensitivities by allowing partially-digested peptides into the blood stream. They shouldn't be there of course, so when the immune system notices them there it begins to produce antibodies to those peptides, and that results in reactions to the foods associated with those peptides. The production of antibodies leads to inflammation, and if those foods remain in the diet the result is chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation eventually causes MC. So that's how too much sugar can cause MC.
But another reason to minimize sugar in the diet is based on the fact that when the small intestine becomes inflamed, it's ability to produce adequate amounts of digestive enzymes needed to digest certain sugars becomes compromised. That's why everyone who has the flu suddenly becomes lactose intolerant. But as soon as the inflammation is resolved, the normal production of enzymes slowly resumes. And yes, the small intestine is almost always inflamed when MC is active — most doctors just aren't aware of it because the disease was incorrectly defined originally. When sugars are not completely digested, they are fermented by bacteria in the colon, resulting in gas, bloating, and D.
So yes, it's very beneficial to minimize sugar in our recovery diet. After we have been in remission for a while so that our gut has had some time to recover, we can slowly increase the amount of sugar in our diet, if we wish to do so.
Tex
All food intolerances that cause the immune system to produce antibodies involve a reaction to a specific protein in that food. Sugars are not known to cause immune system reactions except for one exception which involves an alpha gal allergy known as mammalian meat allergy. This unique allergy is precipitated by the bite of certain species of infected ticks, and you can find a discussion about it in the thread at the following link:
Tick Bites and Meat Allergies
But reactions to this unique allergy are only triggered by the alpha gal sugar, found only in mammalian meat. This allergy does not respond to sucrose, fructose, or any of the other more common sugars. And of course that's an allergy (based on an IgE antibody reaction), whereas the food sensitivities that affect us (with MC) are based on IgA antibodies. Other than mammalian meat allergy, all food sensitivities that we are related to MC are based on reactions to certain proteins.
But that doesn't mean that sugars cannot be a problem for us. Research shows that certain "foods" such as alcohol and sugar, when used in excessive amounts can cause leaky gut. And leaky gut causes food sensitivities by allowing partially-digested peptides into the blood stream. They shouldn't be there of course, so when the immune system notices them there it begins to produce antibodies to those peptides, and that results in reactions to the foods associated with those peptides. The production of antibodies leads to inflammation, and if those foods remain in the diet the result is chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation eventually causes MC. So that's how too much sugar can cause MC.
But another reason to minimize sugar in the diet is based on the fact that when the small intestine becomes inflamed, it's ability to produce adequate amounts of digestive enzymes needed to digest certain sugars becomes compromised. That's why everyone who has the flu suddenly becomes lactose intolerant. But as soon as the inflammation is resolved, the normal production of enzymes slowly resumes. And yes, the small intestine is almost always inflamed when MC is active — most doctors just aren't aware of it because the disease was incorrectly defined originally. When sugars are not completely digested, they are fermented by bacteria in the colon, resulting in gas, bloating, and D.
So yes, it's very beneficial to minimize sugar in our recovery diet. After we have been in remission for a while so that our gut has had some time to recover, we can slowly increase the amount of sugar in our diet, if we wish to do so.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
Thank you so much for your really helpful reply. I am just starting to understand all of this though I admit I don't have a handle on it fully yet. Your reply made things so much clearer though. I have just finished reading your book and found it so helpful. I am going to read it a second time fairly soon.
Thank you for making it clear how sugar fits in to the picture. And now I understand why my doctor indicated that the casein in dairy may be a problem for me. I couldn't understand why he didn't think it was lactose. But what you have explained makes things much more understandable.
I know you mentioned IgA testing for us with MC. However I did have some food sensitivity testing awhile back but it was IgG testing (by Food Detective test). This may seem a dumb question but is IgG testing different from IgA testing? Is IgG testing reliable?
Thanks again for your time and wisdom Tex.
Linda
Thank you so much for your really helpful reply. I am just starting to understand all of this though I admit I don't have a handle on it fully yet. Your reply made things so much clearer though. I have just finished reading your book and found it so helpful. I am going to read it a second time fairly soon.
Thank you for making it clear how sugar fits in to the picture. And now I understand why my doctor indicated that the casein in dairy may be a problem for me. I couldn't understand why he didn't think it was lactose. But what you have explained makes things much more understandable.
I know you mentioned IgA testing for us with MC. However I did have some food sensitivity testing awhile back but it was IgG testing (by Food Detective test). This may seem a dumb question but is IgG testing different from IgA testing? Is IgG testing reliable?
Thanks again for your time and wisdom Tex.
Linda
Linda,
There are others, but the most common immunoglobulins used for antibody testing are IgE, IgG, and IgA. IgE antibodies are associated with classic allergic reactions such as food allergies (not food intolerances), pollen allergies, skin allergies, etc., and they are also associated with life-threatening anaphylactic reactions. IgE antibodies are rapidly produced by the immune system upon exposure to certain antigens. Symptoms can appear in as little as 10 minutes or less, but antibody levels typically reach a peak within an hour or 2 and then begin to decline. IgE antibodies trigger common allergy symptoms by attaching to H1 receptors on mast cells which causes the mast cells to release histamine, cytokines, and often other inflammatory agents.
IgG antibodies respond to similar antigens, but IgG antibodies are produced in response to longer term (or chronic) reactions. They are much slower to build up, and their half-lives are measured in days, rather than minutes (as is the case of IgE antibodies). Both IgE and IgG antibodies usually are created in response to allergens that affect the upper respiratory system, the skin, or the upper digestive system (primarily the mucosal tissue of the mouth, esophagus, and stomach). They are both produced in response to classic allergies.
IgA antibodies are associated with longer-term reactions, and they are primarily produced in the intestines in response to food sensitivities. They cause inflammation by prompting the immune system to produce killer T cells which infiltrate the mucosal lining of the intestines. Killer T cells are normally present in the lining of the intestines, but their population density is normally about 5 or less per 100 enterocytes (or per high-power field under the microscope, as the pathologists prefer to describe it). When the population density reaches 20 or more (per high-power field) it becomes a diagnostic marker of LC. There is no medical relevance for the range between 5 and 20 T cells per high-power field, it's simply undefined. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that T cell populations in that range would have to have some relevance (because they are above the normal range, so inflammation is obviously present). Populations in that range would have to be associated with developing cases of LC, or paucicellular LC, or some other inflammatory bowel disease issue.
So as far as MC is concerned, IgE and IgA antibodies are primarily associated with allergic symptoms such as runny nose, watery eyes, a rash or a flush, itching, and similar classic allergy symptoms. IgA antibodies are associated with chronic inflammation associated with T cells. T cell inflammation is associated with all autoimmune diseases. That's why if the symptoms of MC remain uncontrolled for an extended period, the chronic inflammation opens the door to the development of other autoimmune diseases.
In general, the blood tests and skin tests used to detect IgE and IgG antibodies have limited correlation with the sensitivities associated with MC. If they are used to detect food sensitivities they will sometimes show correlating results, but compared with stool testing for IgA antibodies they have limited value due to the fact that they yield too many false negative results and too many false positive results. IgA stool tests offer the only accurate and reliable way to test for food sensitivities associated with MC. The blood tests and skin tests are not totally without merit, but we can't rely on them with blind faith. Their results are always trumped by the stool tests.
This is a complex subject, so I've only touched on a few high points of interest to MC patients, but I hope that some of this is helpful.
You're most welcome,
Tex
There are others, but the most common immunoglobulins used for antibody testing are IgE, IgG, and IgA. IgE antibodies are associated with classic allergic reactions such as food allergies (not food intolerances), pollen allergies, skin allergies, etc., and they are also associated with life-threatening anaphylactic reactions. IgE antibodies are rapidly produced by the immune system upon exposure to certain antigens. Symptoms can appear in as little as 10 minutes or less, but antibody levels typically reach a peak within an hour or 2 and then begin to decline. IgE antibodies trigger common allergy symptoms by attaching to H1 receptors on mast cells which causes the mast cells to release histamine, cytokines, and often other inflammatory agents.
IgG antibodies respond to similar antigens, but IgG antibodies are produced in response to longer term (or chronic) reactions. They are much slower to build up, and their half-lives are measured in days, rather than minutes (as is the case of IgE antibodies). Both IgE and IgG antibodies usually are created in response to allergens that affect the upper respiratory system, the skin, or the upper digestive system (primarily the mucosal tissue of the mouth, esophagus, and stomach). They are both produced in response to classic allergies.
IgA antibodies are associated with longer-term reactions, and they are primarily produced in the intestines in response to food sensitivities. They cause inflammation by prompting the immune system to produce killer T cells which infiltrate the mucosal lining of the intestines. Killer T cells are normally present in the lining of the intestines, but their population density is normally about 5 or less per 100 enterocytes (or per high-power field under the microscope, as the pathologists prefer to describe it). When the population density reaches 20 or more (per high-power field) it becomes a diagnostic marker of LC. There is no medical relevance for the range between 5 and 20 T cells per high-power field, it's simply undefined. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that T cell populations in that range would have to have some relevance (because they are above the normal range, so inflammation is obviously present). Populations in that range would have to be associated with developing cases of LC, or paucicellular LC, or some other inflammatory bowel disease issue.
So as far as MC is concerned, IgE and IgA antibodies are primarily associated with allergic symptoms such as runny nose, watery eyes, a rash or a flush, itching, and similar classic allergy symptoms. IgA antibodies are associated with chronic inflammation associated with T cells. T cell inflammation is associated with all autoimmune diseases. That's why if the symptoms of MC remain uncontrolled for an extended period, the chronic inflammation opens the door to the development of other autoimmune diseases.
In general, the blood tests and skin tests used to detect IgE and IgG antibodies have limited correlation with the sensitivities associated with MC. If they are used to detect food sensitivities they will sometimes show correlating results, but compared with stool testing for IgA antibodies they have limited value due to the fact that they yield too many false negative results and too many false positive results. IgA stool tests offer the only accurate and reliable way to test for food sensitivities associated with MC. The blood tests and skin tests are not totally without merit, but we can't rely on them with blind faith. Their results are always trumped by the stool tests.
This is a complex subject, so I've only touched on a few high points of interest to MC patients, but I hope that some of this is helpful.
You're most welcome,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Thank you so much Tex, that makes things a lot clearer. I did try to do a Google search on this but nothing I read was explained as clearly as you have explained it. And of course nothing I read was explained in relation to MC.
Thank you again Tex. I have many more questions and I am sure I will ask them in time. This is a journey...not one I really wanted to take but I am praying it is one that eventually leads to healing. It is so good to have people to talk to along the way. And I am glad to have a more definitive diagnosis now.
Linda
Thank you again Tex. I have many more questions and I am sure I will ask them in time. This is a journey...not one I really wanted to take but I am praying it is one that eventually leads to healing. It is so good to have people to talk to along the way. And I am glad to have a more definitive diagnosis now.
Linda
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
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Linda
this is a good layperson basic explanation of the issue with dairy
http://www.amymyersmd.com/2013/04/the-dangers-of-dairy/
the tricky part to the allergy testing, in line with Tex's explaination above is that doctors are given protocols to follow (mostly blood tests), and functional doctors/naturopaths etc have another (skin tests)
what we have learnt over the years of MC'ers contributing their journeys is that this is not supportive or helpful for MC.
the other thing we have learnt is that the type of inflammation we have with MC is not indicated via blood tests. We know from our symptoms etc that there is inflammation but in the blood test that the Doctor uses to make his assessment, it is not there. that is another reason why many MC'ers have delayed diagnosis as the current medical system does not support/help or give accurate information with current testing protocols.
this is a recent discussion with another member, and news story that you may find interesting
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21227
this is a good layperson basic explanation of the issue with dairy
http://www.amymyersmd.com/2013/04/the-dangers-of-dairy/
the tricky part to the allergy testing, in line with Tex's explaination above is that doctors are given protocols to follow (mostly blood tests), and functional doctors/naturopaths etc have another (skin tests)
what we have learnt over the years of MC'ers contributing their journeys is that this is not supportive or helpful for MC.
the other thing we have learnt is that the type of inflammation we have with MC is not indicated via blood tests. We know from our symptoms etc that there is inflammation but in the blood test that the Doctor uses to make his assessment, it is not there. that is another reason why many MC'ers have delayed diagnosis as the current medical system does not support/help or give accurate information with current testing protocols.
this is a recent discussion with another member, and news story that you may find interesting
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21227
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Hi Gabes
Thanks for that information. I have the Amy Myers book and have considered doing her 30 day elimination diet.
My IgG testing was done at my integrative medical doctor's office and it was a blood test. I found it interesting that Gigi mentioned, 'perhaps it just indicates recent ingestion of the food,' because my test showed that I had a strong positive reaction to Almonds and a Moderate positive reaction to Cashew. Interestingly I had been eating those food just hours before. Apart from those two foods I only showed a Weak positive reaction to Oat, Wheat, Corn, Durum Wheat, Gluten, Brazil Nuts, Walnuts, Cow's Milk, Whole Egg, Legume Mix (pea, lentil, haricot) and Yeast. I was told by the nurse that did the test that I really didn't have to worry about the food that I showed a Weak positive reaction to. Though the doctor had previously talked about eliminating gluten and dairy.
I have already started eliminating gluten and will now start eliminating dairy, and then probably soy since so many find it a problem. If I have no joy I will look at a more severe elimination diet. I have just increased my Salofalk (mesalazine) from 2 grams a day to three. I hate taking tablets
but I suppose I have to try and get the inflammation under control.
Thank you so much for your interest and information. It is so nice of you and Tex.
Much appreciated
Linda
Thanks for that information. I have the Amy Myers book and have considered doing her 30 day elimination diet.
My IgG testing was done at my integrative medical doctor's office and it was a blood test. I found it interesting that Gigi mentioned, 'perhaps it just indicates recent ingestion of the food,' because my test showed that I had a strong positive reaction to Almonds and a Moderate positive reaction to Cashew. Interestingly I had been eating those food just hours before. Apart from those two foods I only showed a Weak positive reaction to Oat, Wheat, Corn, Durum Wheat, Gluten, Brazil Nuts, Walnuts, Cow's Milk, Whole Egg, Legume Mix (pea, lentil, haricot) and Yeast. I was told by the nurse that did the test that I really didn't have to worry about the food that I showed a Weak positive reaction to. Though the doctor had previously talked about eliminating gluten and dairy.
I have already started eliminating gluten and will now start eliminating dairy, and then probably soy since so many find it a problem. If I have no joy I will look at a more severe elimination diet. I have just increased my Salofalk (mesalazine) from 2 grams a day to three. I hate taking tablets
but I suppose I have to try and get the inflammation under control. Thank you so much for your interest and information. It is so nice of you and Tex.
Much appreciated
Linda
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lalalauren16
- Little Blue Penguin
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