Mornin' All!
I was fascinated by Celia's recent post that mentioned that her husband may also have MC. I think this may be our first documented case of a couple with MC. I know that there is a theory that MC could be due to an infection - wasn't it a paratuberculosis "bug" that was suspected? We have discussed this in the past. Wayne, do you (or anyone) remember some of the old discussions? If it is infectious, it may be like TB, where it usually takes close family contact to spread it. Verrrrrry interesting.......
Love,
Polly
Could MC be Infectious?
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Could MC be Infectious?
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Hi Polly,
Yes, I recall some of those discussions. The issue boils down to a question of whether or not humans can get an inflammatory bowel disease, (IBD), by drinking milk from a cow infected with Johne's disease. Here's a brief refresher listing of the facts that implicate MAP, (Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis), in the case of Crohn's disease. Crohn's is a closer match than MC would be, of course. Obviously, though, if the bacterium can mutate sufficiently to make the jump from Johne's disease to Crohn's disease, it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to visualize a jump from Johne's to MC, since they are all IBDs.
http://www.crohns.org/
If you want more detail, and background information, here is an excellent site:
http://alan.kennedy.name/crohns/welcome.htm
Personally, I feel that there is probably a link. I believe that this issue is similar to the old problem of ulcers, where, lo and behold, it was eventually discovered that the problem is caused by the H. pylori bacteria. The paratuberculosis bacterium is incredibly adept at hiding, and we simply have not discovered a way to detect the mutated forms in humans, IMHO.
Love,
Wayne
Yes, I recall some of those discussions. The issue boils down to a question of whether or not humans can get an inflammatory bowel disease, (IBD), by drinking milk from a cow infected with Johne's disease. Here's a brief refresher listing of the facts that implicate MAP, (Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis), in the case of Crohn's disease. Crohn's is a closer match than MC would be, of course. Obviously, though, if the bacterium can mutate sufficiently to make the jump from Johne's disease to Crohn's disease, it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to visualize a jump from Johne's to MC, since they are all IBDs.
http://www.crohns.org/
If you want more detail, and background information, here is an excellent site:
http://alan.kennedy.name/crohns/welcome.htm
Personally, I feel that there is probably a link. I believe that this issue is similar to the old problem of ulcers, where, lo and behold, it was eventually discovered that the problem is caused by the H. pylori bacteria. The paratuberculosis bacterium is incredibly adept at hiding, and we simply have not discovered a way to detect the mutated forms in humans, IMHO.
Love,
Wayne
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I certainly think it's possible....my GI even suggested the possibility. I guess since my issues began with c-diff I can see the infectious angle as a definite possibility. Even c-diff was not "figured out" until relatively recently....I would presume there are many bacteria in the body of which we are unaware or uncertain as to whether or not they are harmful....there's a whole lot of uncharted territory!!
Moose and her husband both have IBD (not sure of the timing - who had it first etc...) and someone from the *old place* has an ex-husband who supposedly was having MC-like symptoms....
It's an interesting theory, for sure!!
Mary
Moose and her husband both have IBD (not sure of the timing - who had it first etc...) and someone from the *old place* has an ex-husband who supposedly was having MC-like symptoms....
It's an interesting theory, for sure!!
Mary
I find this line of discussion very interesting (contagious???). I work in an office with 3 other women of various ages who also have experienced many of the symptoms I have with MC. The explosive D and gassiness, etc. is prevelant in all 3. I would feel AWFUL if this is something that I have bestowed on them!!!
On the other hand, I also have a sister who since having gastric bypass surgery, has many of the same symptoms as I do with MC. Interesting line of discussion - I look forward to more comments.
Mars
On the other hand, I also have a sister who since having gastric bypass surgery, has many of the same symptoms as I do with MC. Interesting line of discussion - I look forward to more comments.
Mars
"Let us rise up and be thankful, for if we didn't learn a lot today, at least we learned a little, and if we didn't learn a little, at least we didn't get sick, and if we got sick, at least we didn't die; so, let us all be thankful." -- Buddha
WOW, Mars Bar!
I think I am glad that I don't work in your office!
Although it would be good to have co-workers who understand our disease, what in the world happens when all of you need to poop at once? Hopefully you have more than one toilet nearby?
Love,
Polly
P.S. Looking over this info again, it does appear very possible that we could have an infectious disease. I agree with Wayne. I wonder what Dr. Fine/Fasano think? I'll email them and ask.
I think I am glad that I don't work in your office!
Although it would be good to have co-workers who understand our disease, what in the world happens when all of you need to poop at once? Hopefully you have more than one toilet nearby?Love,
Polly
P.S. Looking over this info again, it does appear very possible that we could have an infectious disease. I agree with Wayne. I wonder what Dr. Fine/Fasano think? I'll email them and ask.
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
When rehabbing the building for our offices, I demanded that we have 2 bathrooms!!!! I told them I wouldn't be responsible if there were accidents because they didn't listen to me! 
My boss understands my problem and he gave in to my demands! LUCKILY!
Seriously, I do wonder......................
PS - Polly Wolly - you
me up!!!!
Mars
My boss understands my problem and he gave in to my demands! LUCKILY!Seriously, I do wonder......................
PS - Polly Wolly - you
me up!!!! Mars
"Let us rise up and be thankful, for if we didn't learn a lot today, at least we learned a little, and if we didn't learn a little, at least we didn't get sick, and if we got sick, at least we didn't die; so, let us all be thankful." -- Buddha
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kate_ce1995
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1321
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:53 pm
- Location: Vermont
I think one of the things that needs to be seriously considered here is that we all had different mechanisms for getting MC. I guess where I'm going with this is that for example, my trigger was ibuprofen. Most of the symptoms went away after stopping taking it for a while. Others have gotten it from having an initial bug trigger like C-Diff. Others antibiotics. Many of us (at least here) have the underlying gluten sensitivity.
Not sure I really know what my point is here....maybe you guys can figure it out!
Katy
Not sure I really know what my point is here....maybe you guys can figure it out!
Katy
Katy,
I see your point, but if MAP is responsible for IBDs, it is probably an opportunistic bacterium, (like C diff, for example). It may have been lurking in our cells, ever since we drank that glass of milk from an infected cow, possibly back when we were in our childhood, or our teens, and when the opportunity is right, (maybe when it detects a weakened immune system due to some other influence, for example), it suddenly becomes active.
Since there seem to be so many different "triggers", maybe MAP becomes active at the first "opportunity" that occurs, after it's incubation period is passed.
Wayne
I see your point, but if MAP is responsible for IBDs, it is probably an opportunistic bacterium, (like C diff, for example). It may have been lurking in our cells, ever since we drank that glass of milk from an infected cow, possibly back when we were in our childhood, or our teens, and when the opportunity is right, (maybe when it detects a weakened immune system due to some other influence, for example), it suddenly becomes active.
Since there seem to be so many different "triggers", maybe MAP becomes active at the first "opportunity" that occurs, after it's incubation period is passed.
Wayne
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Just an FYI - I am not sure what triggered my MC since I had various issues going on at once - STESS is the only thing we can cement in stone.
#1 - my mother was diagnosed and dying of cancer
#2 - I flew to Florida and went swimming in the Gulf of Mexico (wondered about picking up some sort of organism there but doc couldn't pin point it)
#3 - I HATE to fly!
I can't pinpoint anything else such as ibuprofin or such - just STESS!
I have always had gasteritis, IBS (dx'd with that) and inflamation and GERD but never anything like the onset of the MC symptoms!.
#1 - my mother was diagnosed and dying of cancer
#2 - I flew to Florida and went swimming in the Gulf of Mexico (wondered about picking up some sort of organism there but doc couldn't pin point it)
#3 - I HATE to fly!
I can't pinpoint anything else such as ibuprofin or such - just STESS!
I have always had gasteritis, IBS (dx'd with that) and inflamation and GERD but never anything like the onset of the MC symptoms!.
"Let us rise up and be thankful, for if we didn't learn a lot today, at least we learned a little, and if we didn't learn a little, at least we didn't get sick, and if we got sick, at least we didn't die; so, let us all be thankful." -- Buddha
I already got an email response to our question from Dr. Fine. Here is what he says:
"I think there is some possibility to the MPTB (mycobacterium paratuberculosis) but it has never been proven.
All IBD is a reaction to flora bacteria though.
Hope you come to Dallas, and bring your friends."
I wonder if anyone is doing research on this at the present time?
Polly
"I think there is some possibility to the MPTB (mycobacterium paratuberculosis) but it has never been proven.
All IBD is a reaction to flora bacteria though.
Hope you come to Dallas, and bring your friends."
I wonder if anyone is doing research on this at the present time?
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Soooooo, does this mean that it's my fault that the girls in the office are having the same symptoms as active MC? YIKES! 
"Let us rise up and be thankful, for if we didn't learn a lot today, at least we learned a little, and if we didn't learn a little, at least we didn't get sick, and if we got sick, at least we didn't die; so, let us all be thankful." -- Buddha
Mars,
I don't believe that it's that easily transmitted. If it were, many of our family members, and close friends, would have it.
Wayne
I don't believe that it's that easily transmitted. If it were, many of our family members, and close friends, would have it.
Wayne
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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barbaranoela
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 5394
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:11 pm
- Location: New York
my 2cents worth---I dont really believe that this disease is transmitted *eye-the* 
Mars---no----U didnt give it to the gals in your office--
If so----then I should have given it to my kids---Lou and all my friends --
I appeared to be the only
pooper/running rapids amidst all friends/family/etc
Barbara
Mars---no----U didnt give it to the gals in your office--
If so----then I should have given it to my kids---Lou and all my friends --
I appeared to be the only
pooper/running rapids amidst all friends/family/etc Barbara
the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control
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barbaranoela
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 5394
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:11 pm
- Location: New York
my 2cents worth---I dont really believe that this disease is transmitted *eye-the*
Mars---no----U didnt give it to the gals in your office--
If so----then I should have given it to my kids---Lou and all my friends --
I appeared to be the only pooper/running rapids amidst all friends/family/etc
Barbara
Mars---no----U didnt give it to the gals in your office--
If so----then I should have given it to my kids---Lou and all my friends --
I appeared to be the only
pooper/running rapids amidst all friends/family/etc Barbara
the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control
Polly thanks for raising this interesting line of thought. So many of our friends have commented that it is just too weird that my husband and I have both been sick over the same period and for such a long time. The illness has cycled in different ways for each of us and we have different symptoms. But then, if it's auto-immune it is problably going to hit where each individual is weakest.
Interestingly, one of the millions of tests that my husband had shows that he has small nodules in his lungs. The pulmonoligist had no clue about that. I don't now if the "tb" in the name of this critter has anything to do with lungs or not... I will try to give this all more of a read when my work day is complete.
I don't think D. was every a big problem for my husband and he did have proctitis. But it's interesting what the one doctor said when his colonoscopy was clear, that there was microscopic inflammation. Like Terks, we may never know exactly what that means. At this point though, his proctitis and microscopic inflammation is gone but he is still plagues with fatigue.
Oh well! Celia
Interestingly, one of the millions of tests that my husband had shows that he has small nodules in his lungs. The pulmonoligist had no clue about that. I don't now if the "tb" in the name of this critter has anything to do with lungs or not... I will try to give this all more of a read when my work day is complete.
I don't think D. was every a big problem for my husband and he did have proctitis. But it's interesting what the one doctor said when his colonoscopy was clear, that there was microscopic inflammation. Like Terks, we may never know exactly what that means. At this point though, his proctitis and microscopic inflammation is gone but he is still plagues with fatigue.
Oh well! Celia
I beleive in magic!